Measuring Lumens, how do you do it?

Just searched my photo bucket lib and don't have any. I'll have to take some and post. Think manxbuggy1 may have posted some, but not sure -- he built mine.

Cool I will look forward to seeing how it’s done. Maybe that will be the kick in the pants I need to at least try and get some real numbers.

Here's one I found, from rdrfronty:

Mine is pretty much identical, even the same meter.

Very cool. Thanks. I might just have to go and build one.

I don’t have much confidence in the absolute lumens claims of any of the manufacurers named. I suspect that independant testing by a reputable lab would show enough variance from published specs to make many of their claims laughable. But that’s not my point.

If your objective is to make practical measurements that are useful to others then manufacturer’s claims aren’t very important. Just choose a light for reference purposes and pass it around. If you’re using more than one copy of the light as the standard then manufacturing tolerances/consistency becomes a factor and your standard is less reliable.

Here's a direct quote pm from rdrfronty (hope he doesn't mind):

"Basically our lightbox is a PVC one. Made out of 4” p-traps, with additional 90’s and caps, and a glass platform. The p-trap has the extra 90 stuck on one end and rotated up to accept the lights. A glass platform is siliconed into that 90 to allow the lights to sit on it. On the opposite side a cap was put on to seal off the box. I drilled a hole just large enough for the meter sensor to fit into. I then have a Velcro strap to hold said sensor in place. Now on the light receiving end we have multiple sized foam rings that we put around the bezel of the lights to help seal the light from coming out.
We also went through the ptrap, elbows, caps, etc, to scrap any bad mold lines, sharp edges, etc. that light could catch on. So the end result is a pretty smooth curved tube with no flats walls & no corners, but also no direct light beam being allowed to touch sensor.
So with the sensor strapped on and appropriate meter levels selected, the light sitting on the glass shelf, donut surrounding the bezel, we turn the light on, start timing, record start up numbers, and then finally record the final otf numbers once 30sec. Is reached. Now the thing is these PVC meters, and almost all homemade lightbox of any style, have a different volume that “real” light boxes. So the numbers you get will be off. So the trick is to get as many and as accurate of ANSI rated lights tested on the lightbox to create a baseline number to multiply or divide by. We’ve tested a good 30 ANSI rated lights through out the lumen range to help get accurate baselines. And with this setup that baseline number actually works well from my 25L Preon 0 up to the big boys. Some lightboxs will need a couple baseline numbers, a high and a low range. But ours worked really well accoss the full range."

+1

There's a reason why an IS is minimum of $10,000. What we do has nothing to do with true readings or even ANSI lumens output. All of the home made IS spheres are subjective and only meant for something for your reference, but they would not be true lumens, nor would they be necessarily repeatable with a whole span of different lights.

In other words, any readings from a home made sphere, or worse, (light box or PVC), are just speculative and cannot be considered true lumens readings. I think too many people take some of the results they see as gospel and they can be totally way off from true lumens readings.

Here's maybe the original PVC lightbox posting: https://budgetlightforum.com/t/-/6918. More info there.

I would no way, no how claim my measurements are accurate to true lumens, but I also know it's damn close, in the neighborhood, shows consistency over and over again when done and setup correctly. I see lots of consistency from unit to unit (many TN31's and many Shockers for example). Also I've done many battery tests in various well regulated lights and poorly regulated lights and can easily track differences in lumens output as a result. Best part is making a tweek and seeing the measured result, and also, getting someone else with a totally different home made lightbox, calibrated completely different and getting the same results you get - amazing coincidence that seems to happen quite often...

Wow, this sounds very easy (and cheap) to build!

-Garry

I really like this set-up. What light meter is being used?

looks like you haven't read the work or didn't understand it no offense

btw how good is your espanish? :p

http://forolinternas.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5955

Anyway, i have access to this Fenix DIY sphere. It can reproduce the Fenix ratings of any Fenix light (post 2011 model). That's very satisfactory. In practice, for me and other readers of UPz reviews it means:

If in future he reviews the Fenix LD12 G2 (rated 125 Fenix lumens), the sphere will measure ~125 lumens (converted from the complicated formula based on miliVolts of the light sensor). And if months later he reviews the Thrunite Scolapso (rated 178 ANSI lumens by Thrunite) and the sphere measures 110 lumens, then i know that Fenix would rate the Thrunite Scolapso with 110 lumens. And more clearly, the LD12 G2 has a higher lumens output than the Scolapso, namely by 15 ANSI lumens after the Fenix lights scale. It's important to re-measure the output claims of manufacturers (other than Fenix) because those companies don't use a consistent scale for all of their lights in the program.

That's all i need to know, that's very helpful info for every reader of the review.

kreisl.

out.

enough trolling from either part!!

I agree.

Another option is to shine the damn light directly into our eyes and count how many seconds it take for us to get our vision back? LOL

Ok it’s a $200 light meter. An Extech HD-450 a little out of my price range.

I have to admit, I’ve bought a light meter, due to a very busy life at the moment, it’s still in its packaging, I’ve mainly bought it and intend to use it for the same reason tom has, to give a base line to work from.

Will I end up with an ansi rig? no, but I will be able to measure and compare for myself, I’m hoping to copy toms/rdrfronty/manxbuggys/turbobb’s integrating drain tube, but I’m in England, elbows will be different, and I’ll also have to stump up for a few ansi lights to calibrate, seems they may have to be fenix’s which is a shame as they really dont interest me, I like to peek under the hood, to quote old lumens.

Good thread, its saved me posting the same lol

I went down this road a little while ago - more so for having something to compare output before & after mods, & as a comparison between lights.

After trying to re-invent the wheel, (I think it was TomE who pointed me to that early thread), I went ahead & assembled a similar pipe device;


Cheap & easy. 90mm pipe fittings - cost less that $10.

I now have a comparitive spreadsheet between most of my lights.

Bought mine here back in December: http://www.ebay.com/itm/200-000-LUX-New-Digital-Illuminance-Light-Meter-LX1330B-/180556318977?. It's a fairly popular model and this seems to be about the going price. rdrfronty has the same one, though he now has a much more expensive ExTech model.

Ummmm, it was $35.99 shipped, here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/200-000-LUX-New-Digital-Illuminance-Light-Meter-LX1330B-/180556318977?

"it's the budget life for me..."

I'm doing product development in the nuclear medical field - FDA approval process, regulations everywhere, global panic and fear over anything that radiates energy, etc. Actually has a lot in common with the LED tech flashlight field . We work with NIST sources at times (some of our competitiors ddin't seem to know what a NIST source is), do everything we can to get pinpoint accuracy - well we try... Facts are that if you measure a dosage within 10%, you are doin pretty good!! Of course 1% here or there adds up, specially if an error margin can be mutiplied up, but yes - pressure and temps can effect your readings, but how much? How accurate, how precise are we talking about? There are factors of impact in under 1%, or even under 0.01%. Do we worry about them? Do we care? Of course it depends... As a manufacturer or design engineer, you want to understand all the factors that influence the outcome, but if temperature variations in an office/lab environment have less than a 0.01% effect, do we need to measure and adjust for it? No, of course not, at least with this type of instrument. Do we need to ship a product at a lower margin of error tolerance than what the customer needs? Of course, and our acceptance testing criteria should be at a lower tolerance than what we claim.

I love the claim thay ambient light effects our readings, therefore it's not accurate -- ok, but funny, because I can't measure ambient light (street light 500 feet away, etc.) - it's too low to register on the meter, so, is it an effect? If ambient light reads 0 lux on the meter, then the light under test measures 100 lux, is it possible for the ambient light to effect the result by up to 1%? Yes, if the precision of the meter is 1 lux I suppose. If the meter's resolution match's it's precision at 0.1 lux, and your baseline reading is 0.0 lux, and light measures 100.0, the effect is up to 0.1%. I'm making assumptions here there is no other property of ambient light that would effect a flashlight's measured output, accept what you can measure at the same place, same position, etc. Now, can you take that further, and say take your flashlight reading, and subtract measured ambient light. Is that valid? Not sure, and don't think I want to go there. However, in radiation monitoring, that is exactly what we do - radiation is always present everywhere, so it's common practice to measure your background, then subtract it out from your source reading - this is much simple, cheaper and just as precise than building a lab with 20 feet thick lead walls.

I believe it was mentioned ANSI/NEMA FL-1 standards call for precise controlled environments for the calibration and measurements, but is it needed? How accurate do you need to be? What's the effect of a temp swing betwen 68F and 74F for example? Thousands of dollars on equipment with controlled environments I'm thinking is a huge overkill for the precision we want, but without all the data, it's a tough call. Of course the biggest joke is the variation from unit to unit on so called claimed ANSI rated lights. So if you measure to 1 lumen precision, but your lights will vary by 20 lumens piece to piece, what's the point of that accuracy, unless you state all the facts - ex: here is the average #, and here is the expected range... Also, can your test sample size be big enough to spec a reasonable range?

One of those photo galleries showed the Extech, without looking closely I thought they were all the same meter. I just then figured all you guys must be made outta solid cash. Thanks. This looks like a decent one… It’s on my very short list to purchase- before any other lights.

If you’re getting repeatable results that you’re happy with that’s all that really matters. And don’t be too quick to call yourself a troll - people might start to agree with you. :wink:

I'm gonna link to this thread in my How to do a review thread :)