Mechanical Keyboards - Anyone here a fan? Can anyone recommend a good 75% keyboard?

[CollectEverything]

I actually considered YMDK heavily for hitting most of my criteria, but I decided that their cases are probably not worth the money. So if I made one it would have to be a really custom job which is more than I want to do right now.

Their wood cases are advertised as walnut, but is something else (probably bamboo) with walnut stain. Reports indicate the staining color is inconsistent and the product description backs this up. Their aluminum cases are not shown in high res photos or from many angles. I decided I don’t have a ton of trust in a company that can’t even accurately list product details and can’t be bothered to get proper English descriptions on their website.

I might still try building a custom around one of their PCBs some day, but I want something to use now, not after I buy a soldering iron and learn how to use it. (I wanna solder white leds to one of their boards)

[CollectEverything]

BTW, learned another downside of the BlackWidow V4 75%. The product page says “aluminum top case” but the actual truth is there is a very thin frame that couldn’t really even be described as a case. It’s so scummy, it turns me off of their brand.

Whatever else is wrong with the FiiO KB3, it actually has a pretty badass top case. Very sturdy.

I hate that I seem to have the choice of good build quality OR the features I want. (barring building what I want myself)

[Chris100575 (Chris)]

Wired is better for gaming in terms of latency and reliability.

IMO wired is just better anyway.

[CollectEverything]

I have always used wired for gaming and in general, but I think when you start paying $150+ for a non-custom board then wireless should be included as an option for flexibility. I mean, if the $60 RK84 can have wireless, then there isn’t any real excuse for something like the Razer BlackWidow V4 75% at $200.

I understand the latency of a 2.4Ghz connection can be really quite low at this point, it really just depends on the board whether it is a good enough for games.

Apparently the Asus Rog Azoth is great at registering keystrokes quickly, but it has a weirdly long delay in registering key release-- far beyond what a mechanical switch normally displays. Here is the Azoth compared to the wired Blackwidow V4 75% which has the best latency for gaming out of all the keyboards Rtings has tested.

ASUS ROG Azoth vs Razer BlackWidow V4 75% Side-by-Side Keyboard Comparison

Bit of a glaring issue with the Azoth IMO. No wonder there is a market for hall effect switches for faster release detection lol

 

Oh, here is the Blackwidow V4 75% vs the Keychron Q1 Max. It’s not as fast on the initial keypress as the Azoth, but it is really not too bad for latency and doesn’t have the weird key release issue.

Razer BlackWidow V4 75% vs Keychron Q5 Max [Q1 Max, Q2 Max, etc.]...

 
BTW, I would assume many wireless keyboards are much slower than the Blackwidow V4 75% as it has a ridiculous 8000hz polling rate and is intended to be fast for gaming as a major selling point. I bet a lot of untested wired boards out there are probably slower than the Q1 Max in 2.4Ghz mode.

[gravelmonkey]

@CollectEverything

buy a soldering iron and learn how to use it.

I’m rubbish at soldering compared to some on here, but find successfully building an electronics kit or modding an LED to be extremely satisfying. I’m looking forward to building the macro pad kit I’ve ordered.

If you’re in the market for a soldering iron, I can recommend the Pinecil soldering iron as a “entry level” iron. You’ll need a power supply of some kind though. The USB-C silicone cables they sell are good for the price, too.

My hakko iron is feels better in hand, the stand is better (pinecil folding stand option is positively dangerous as it’s so light the weight of the cable can move it!) and is generally a superior product, however, it is expensive.

I didn’t look too close into YMDK boards, I must admit I was tempted by the price points, but I guess like most things in life, you get what you pay for.

I’ve a few saved searches set up on eBay, good condition keychrons go for quite reasonable prices. My most pressing requirement at the moment is a new mouse, probably going to go with the luxury option of Logitech MX Master 3S… Keyboard budget out the window

@CollectEverything

I’ve been to keeb-finder.com but gave up on it when the filter was wrong in several cases.

Yeh, seems like version revisions have moved from North to south, I don’t know if that’s a fairly “recent” trend in the keyboard world, but most of the newest versions advertise south facing RGB.

I can’t quite get my head around how cherry profile is incompatible with south-facing RGBs, but other profiles are okay? I suspect it would make sense if I had a mechanical keyboard to hand though.

[CollectEverything]

YMDK

I hear a good soldering iron makes it easier due to better temp control, so I’d probably jump to something in the ~$100 range. Probably Hakko or Weltool.

The YMDK PCBs are probably fine, I just think their cases are probably wack. There’s has to be a reason they don’t upload better pictures for the aluminum one and put disclaimers up for the wood ones.

 

Logitech

My brother had a really nice Logitech, I want to say it must have been in the $80 range. He started getting double clicks (chatter) within a year or so on the left click. He bought a barebones Razer and hasn’t had any issues now for years. Maybe he just got unlucky with one brand and lucky with the other though, who knows.
 

South vs North facing switch clearance

People mostly focus on the Cherry profile keycaps, but I think any of the low profile caps also have a possiblity of not clearing.

[jeff51]

I have a Hakko 888, a Weller station from yesteryear and a clone of one of these.
It’s the one I go to first.
heats up so darn quick. Easy to adjust. Uses T12 Hakko tips.
Clone is not available any more.
When soldering flux is your friend.
I did a review of the clone here

[REVIEW] Handskit T12 PID controlled Soldering Iron

A 72w PID Soldering Iron with a reduced feature set at a very low price. With a possible safety hazard that can be corrected. I bought this last week on Amazon during a flash sale for $17. It’s now up to $20. https://www.amazon.com/Soldering-Function-Adjustable-Temperature-Ergonomic/dp/B08NDH4Q2T?ref=deals_deals_deals-grid_slot-15_8a28_dt_dcell_vdt_334_73179620 [image] It was shipped in a plastic envelope. Inside was the cardboard box containing the kit. Included is the power supply/temp co…

All the Best,
Jeff
https://www.amazon.com/KSGER-Temperature-Controller-Electronic-Equipments/dp/B07PYFSCJ9/ref=dp_prsubs_sccl_1/139-6278631-0662444?pd_rd_w=6Xcr3&content-id=amzn1.sym.53e0c629-1936-47cb-93a2-c361b12e7d3c&pf_rd_p=53e0c629-1936-47cb-93a2-c361b12e7d3c&pf_rd_r=FW914BXNTHXB2268REKF&pd_rd_wg=PB5yT&pd_rd_r=10300680-e309-44ae-ae9e-bebe355c9722&pd_rd_i=B07PYFSCJ9&psc=1

[ToyKeeper]

This one may perhaps be of interest?

5075S VIA | Akko Official Global Site

It’s cheap, 75% with 4 keys in the right column, hotswap, QMK+VIA, comes in black or white, and they have a wide selection of pretty good switches available as add-ons.

I’d probably get the purple, penguin, or wine tactile switches.

[jeff51]

Was poking around and came across this.
logitech mec KB on amazon
Red, brown, or blue switches. Lightup keys.
Flat low profile style keys. Programmable with logictech software.
Will pair with 3 BT devices. Has WiFi dongle too - Logi Bolt USB Receiver ? .
75 or full size.
All the Best,
Jeff

They also have a laptop looking one.
Compact and full sized.

[CollectEverything]

The Akko Purples caught my eye too, they look like a good switch.

Thanks for the keyboard suggestion but after testing the KB3 I’ve realized that I prefer to have a metal top case/frame. My old magicforce68 has a metal top plate so I guess I have become used to a very rigid keyboard. I might try for a bouncier board later but for my daily driver I’ll probably go for the familiar.

[CollectEverything]

Thanks for the suggestion! Those logitech mechs check a lot of boxes but they do not have hot-swap sockets and I’ve decided I need hot-swap. Initially I wasn’t as concerned about hot-swap sockets and thought they were just a nice-to-have. But after learning more, I’ve realized it is the single best feature a keyboard can have. It makes replacing faulty switches a breeze and changing switch types completely changes how the keyboard works/feels. I’m excited to choose not just a tactile switch, but one with the specific actuation force and bottom-out force that I prefer. I can also select for smoothness and lack of rattle. There are a number of different switches I really want to try now

I guess my goals have changes a little since I initially posted. I’ll update the main thread.

[gravelmonkey]

@CollectEverything

excited to choose not just a tactile switch, but one with the specific actuation force and bottom-out force that I prefer. I can also select for smoothness and lack of rattle. There are a number of different switches I really want to try now

This is a disease . In my renewed interest in mechanical keyboards, generated from this thread, I’ve got about 6 different kinds of switches on their way to me, various profile keycaps (individuals or WASD keys rather than a full set) and signed up to a bunch of re-stocking notifications on various websites!

Maybe I’ll try to sell some of the switches as tester sets on eBay, the minimum order quantity from AliExpress is 10!

[CollectEverything]

6 more kinds of switches? Egads!!

Oh yea, the tester set thing crossed my mind too. I mean, unless you have a full sized keyboard you’ll always end up with a bunch of extras due to the increments they sell switches in

[gravelmonkey]

Keychron do a low profile tester, so I’m counting that as 3, despite having a bunch of others on. Had to find a Durock Silent T1 “shrimp” and a Boba U4 Silent to try out on recommendation of TK. Also inbound is a sample of Kailh Deep Sea Pro box Whale (not quite sure the official order those words should go in ).

[ToyKeeper]

@CollectEverything

I prefer to have a metal top case/frame. My old magicforce68 has a metal top plate so I guess I have become used to a very rigid keyboard. I might try for a bouncier board later but

I agree, I prefer a rigid board instead of a bouncy squishy one. That’s part of why I like the plastic Keychron V1. It’s a tray mount board instead of gasket mount, and it has no fancy flex cuts or anything… so it’s rigid instead of bouncy. This also makes it cheaper, because it’s way easier to build than a fancy padded gasket mount.

OTOH, my metal Q65 isn’t rigid… it’s bouncy. Because, like most higher-end keyboards lately, it has those extra features designed to make the typing surface physically flexible. So I would prefer a simpler plastic “V65” version of it instead of the premium metal Q65. It would be more rigid, slightly lower profile due to the simpler internals, less cold to the touch, better-sounding, and about half as heavy.

Anyway, if you want rigid, try to find a cheap tray-mount board. The case material has almost no effect on how bouncy or rigid it is to type on. A tray mount and/or metal plate helps, but those things seem to be more common in plastic cases, since metal cases tend to be more premium boards with bouncier internals.

@gravelmonkey

Had to find a Durock Silent T1 “shrimp” and a Boba U4 Silent to try out on recommendation of TK

I got the 68g Boba U4, and ended up feeling like they were slightly too firm. I should have gotten the 62g version instead. But I’m really happy with both the silent and regular versions of the Durock T1.

Also, after looking at Akko’s site a few days ago, their “penguin” switch looks interesting too. I haven’t tried it, and they come out with new switches so fast it’s hard to ever find any real measurements, but at least based on what their page says, it looked promising.

Or for something completely different, there’s the Hako True switch. It has a long, tall force curve after activation, which I’ve heard described as “like typing on clouds”. Or like pressing on a sponge. It’s designed to not bottom out, which makes it very quiet. That’s what I have on my Whitefox. However, the unusually high bottom-out pressure also makes it tiring to hold a key down. And the tactile feel on it is otherwise really weak, so it feels almost like a linear switch during use, but with kind of a scratchy bit in the middle.

[jeff51]

Found this site. Lots of KB info and reviews.
https://switchandclick.com/
and this place that sells all sorts of switches.
Switches (epomaker.com)
How the heck does anyone wade through all the choices?
It would be nice if there was a list that showed the graphs or at least the force next to the key type.
I’m interested in a quiet tactile with a heavy bump with a good bit of travel before the bump. Any suggestions?
All the Best,
Jeff

[Mandrake50]

@jeff51

How the heck does anyone wade through all the choices?

I think that is great question. I keep considering a new keyboard. The graphs don’t help much when one hasn’t a clue how that translates into actuall feel. So my eyes glaze over and I get a headache when considering switches. I am not sure how much it would matter to me. In IT for a very long time and travelling a bunch, I just got used to typing on whatever was available. That and the fact that I refuse to go down a path where I buy multiple sets of switches to try them. It makes this real hard.

[CollectEverything]

@ToyKeeper

The case material has almost no effect on how bouncy or rigid it is to type on. A tray mount and/or metal plate helps, but those things seem to be more common in plastic cases, since metal cases tend to be more premium boards with bouncier internals.

That makes sense. I guess I still like the idea of having some metal though. It’s like, even if I could have a flashlight in plastic and it would perform the same as an aluminum one, I’d still opt for aluminum. There’s just something satisfying about something made well out of metal.

Believe me, this waffling is driving me nuts too lol. My wants are too specific. Rather than having 10 keyboards I’m trying to shove all me needs and wants into 2. It’s like trying to buy your endgame flashlight in one go instead of starting a collection. But I’m not giving up yet!

[CollectEverything]

I’m trying out the Razer Blackwidow V4 75%. I thought I should just commit to a true gaming keyboard since it would hopefully have the features I want/need for that use-case. (north facing rgb and extremely low latency) And then I would get another keyboard to use the rest of the time.

That’s how it started, this is how it’s going:

Pros:

• 75% form factor
• audio roller is convenient and seems solid
• hotswap sockets
• north facing switches for good legend illumination
• software technically works
• optional 8000hz polling rate
• by default, holding the FN key will light up the shortcut keys in white–very nice!

Cons:

• Most bloated driver software I’ve ever seen–waaay too many background processes
• The Razer Synapse application (not just the services) must be running to maintain the rgb settings… wtf
• Weirdly awkward to type on - maybe the key profile is non-standard
• Razer Orange switches feel like crap to me
• This keyboard sounds worse than either the Epomaker TH80 SE or the FiiO KB3, both of which cost less. (It’s weird because it has sound dampening mods out of the box)
• after one gaming session, I can observe that pressing the space bar down on one side feels significantly different from pressing it down on the other side. Either it came like that or one gaming session ruined a stabilizer. That’s nuts. My cheap $60 Magicforce68 feels better to type on and play on than this and I’ve been abusing it since 2017. (well, more use than abuse, I don’t get violent with my peripherals)

The stabilizers are replaceable, and I wanted to try different switches anyway, but it feels bad that the board doesn’t feel “good enough” out of the box for ~$200. The FiiO KB3 felt good enough that I didn’t think upgrades were a necessity. This one feels like it needs immediate help. Also, I don’t know if I can live with this software. It’s so damn invasive.

[ebastler (Moritz)]

I’ll use this thread to post some pics of a board I built today - an Anvil Native 75 Founders Edition. Using Gateron Box Pink Ink (lubed with Tribosys 3204 and Krytox 105), and Durock v2 stabilizers (lubed with Tribosys 3204 and XHT-BDZ). Keycaps are in the basement and it is late, so will finish the build tomorrow. A pretty simple but fun board - and one I designed the electronics for. Made by a small German startup, sold only domestically AFAIK.