Are they? I remember djozz had issues with that.
Yep, both counts. Good battery and the springs were bypassed with the S4 2B’s.
And remember, my lumens and lux readings almost perfectly matched the ANSI specs from Olight on the M3XS-UT Javelot.
Sounds like you got this LED-replacement process down good! Just a few more questions:
1) I assume the original solder used for the LED/MCPCB is mixed with the new solder paste you use and this mixing doesn’t cause any problems?
2) Your method preserves the original solder - is this to simplify the process by avoiding the extra step of removing the original solder or does the new LED adhere better when you preserve the original solder or…?
3) I assume you solder all 12 LEDs at the same time when you heat the MCPCB copper plate?
4) Do you have to apply downward pressure on top of the LED so it doesn’t ‘float’ on top of the solder? I suppose ‘floating’ is only a problem if there is too much solder.
5) Has your process ever resulted in a burned LED?
6) What temp do you set your stove at?
7) I assume the solder paste you use is the softest/lowest temp solder?
8) When you remove the LEDs, do you heat the entire MCPCB copper plate and peel them all off one after another, then without cooling, repeat the same process in reverse to put the new LEDs on ?
9) Do you use a soldering iron to solder the bypass wire to the MCPCB copper plate toward the bottom of the spring? If so, can this same method be used to solder a new LED to the MCPCB copper plate rather than heat the whole plate up on a stove - maybe use a soldering iron to heat the MCPCB copper plate locally only - I assume reflow is best but cooling down that huge copper plate is a slow process while the LED is exposed to that heat during that slow process? Just wondering…
Once again, thank you for your input.
If that is the case than the output will all over the place, no one regulates LED based on voltage output instead of current.
Yes and no spring bypass will give you 5500 more lumens for the same output watts as before.
@Dale&others: how about building this cheapy sphere? Built in one spare evening, works as good as any sphere out there (better than most I dare say) and if you use a bigger styrofoam ball instead of the small one of my example, you can make a big entrance hole, and the range will be sufficient for any monsters you decide to build in the future.
well it wouldn’t be the same output watts as before, always for the same reason. springs bypasses increase the wattage by decreasing the voltage drop. however I obviously agree bypasses can’t provide more than a few lumens, I still see no explanation for that +5k though
I slide the emitters off in a re-flow action to preserve the solder already on the mcpcb. I don’t have experience removing solder, have no solder wick or vacuum or any other way to remove it and am inherently lazy. So I use what’s there, figuring it was good enough for the 1st one it’ll be good enough for the second as well. I PREFER to use a fresh star and a solder paste mask. But I don’t always get that option. I don’t like pressing down the emitter as it has often caused a short to do so. These small emitters aren’t heavy enough to push solder out if there’s too much there, so the right amount is much more critical. And no, I don’t think a soldering iron could be used to replace just one emitter on this large copper board. Hence, when one of the 12 wasn’t seated properly I pulled the board and re-flowed in the plate again. I use a setting of 3 to 3 1/2 on my stove top. I like to have the items being re-flowed in place when the plate reaches temperature, much more successful this way than having the plate sitting there full hot when starting out. In this way, only just enough heat is used, not too much, as it’s difficult to control these self adjusting burner elements.
I have modified easily 200+ lights (over a 100 of my own), maybe 400 emitters re-flowed in various styles (some lights have been rebuilt multiple times). I have yet to burn an emitter doing this. I’ve popped the masking off a Noction, browned the mask on a SinkPAD and never had an issue with the emitter itself. I’ve killed emitters de-doming, like most everyone else. I’ve burned up 8 in a row trying to modify a TK61, poof poof poof… too much spike when too close to the top end in current. Haven’t ever had one not light up after re-flow because it got too hot, but then, I always try to err on the cool side to prevent just such a thing.
Maybe the easiest way to prove or disprove my result here is for someone ELSE to put 12 of the HI emitters on this big mcpcb. Then we’ll all know what I already know. The output is staggering and the lightbox/meter are useless when out and about using the light. Some want to act like the numbers are what it’s all about, when in fact they are only a reference to what you can expect when in use. It’s really as simple as that. Datasheets are helpful, but again only guidelines with +/- tolerances easily responsible for big swings in output… especially in multiples of 12.
After buying 24 XP-L’s to test on this light (Yes, 24, remember that I sliced the domes off 12 to simulate the HI before it became available) it’s pretty frustrating to be so far out in expenses and be met with all the cynical attitudes. In the end though, I built it for me to use and play with, anyone’s disbelief is totally irrelevant to my enjoyment of clicking the button. Anyone wanting to know the truth can drop the coin on some emitters and find out for themselves.
Happy modding! 
You know how the saying goes, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
So if I tell someone the next day I got almost double the lumen output at under-driven currents, everyone will want to know how is that possible or simply ignore me, I would think that would be a fair attitude towards me.
So for example i was thinking to ask you this, maybe there is short somewhere, there are 4 current sense resistors on the driver, that simply means the current is being regulated (limited, as some people call it), but if the current sense resistors are bypassed or there is a short (ground input to ground output like commonly happens to short) then yeah the current output could be way higher becasue now current goes out stopped only the the entire resistance of the circuit. Maybe you can check if the current is still 8A on the output, you have checked it before.
Wow, that was one detailed explanation on your reflow technique! I think I just picked up a couple of keepers. Anyways, I don’t doubt your results. The next thing is to see if they can be replicated as you suggest. That my friend is a part of the scientific method. That would be a lot better than endless speculation. But through your endless modding Dale ( 
), you have inadvertently raised the bar for lumen output in such a small light. You should donate that light to the Southern California Museum of Flashlight History, which I’ll be trying to get off the ground . But seriously Dale, thanks for your constant modding adventures, and sharing those adventures with us all! You’re the best!
Thanks Ray-o-light, appreciate it.
Hikelight, if there were a negative to ground short I’d have no modes. Since I have all the modes, obviously there’s no short.
I could probably double check the sense resistors, see what value they are, but the more times you break down and reassemble a light the sloppier it gets. This one’s been apart 4 times now. Need a better reason to make it 5. This light was originally fitted with the XP-G2 S4 2B. On the box it says 6900 lumens. My meter was showing higher with a top cell, maybe they didn’t use the best high discharge cell when they read the 6900, I don’t know. But the light was in perfect working order with the XP-G2’s in it, swapping the emitters to XP-L HI made a TREMENDOUS difference.
You’re right, of course, that exceptional claims bring doubt and the desire to disprove. Human nature. That doesn’t change the fact that oncoming traffic on our road perceives this little light as a big 4x4 with lightbars fired up (my brother’s description, he was coming home when I was using this light Thursday night on my walk) {yes, I tend to shine a light down the road if I hear a car approaching over the rise, about 600 yds away before they crest the hill and can see the source}
You’re sounding like my Dad Hikelite, he’s about convinced they never sent a man to the moon at all, staged it, Hollywood photo’s and created rocks. Even my Dad is awed by this light, 86 year old cynic, grinning like the Cheshire cat with this little handful of light making a large room light up like daylight. He want’s to see it, push the button for himself, like I have some kind of trick up my sleeve or something. Shakes his head and says “… beats all I’ve ever seen!” My uncle came over to try to beat the old man in some Dominoes, Dad’s like, “go get that light of yours and show Jay…” all tickled and ready to see my Uncles reaction to this little thing.
I don’t actually understand where you picked up “cynical attitudes” or “desire to disprove” because it appears to me everybody’s desire is to prove, who in his right mind would ever want a M43 with 12k lumens not to be true? still, all things in this world can be scientifically explained and that’s what is being tried to accomplish.
btw, Vinh has listed M43 with XPL HI as ready to be sold so perhaps we’ll have some more info in these days!
Fra, try using science to explain my ex-wife. (or my current one for that matter!)
Hmmm, you don’t understand where I got those things huh? Impossible, says you. Given my readings are right, says you. Doubt, cynicism. And you with 7 posts. But yes, I’m aware that human nature prevails. Science has been misleading and dead wrong many times before. But that’s a whole nother story…
I’m a photographer, not an electrical engineer. I don’t know this stuff inside and out like some may. Basically, I’m a hack who follows the lead of others and breaks a little ground of his own sometimes while doing so. Richard says I’m a good guinea pig, because I have a way of stumbling into problems that haven’t cropped up before. Oh well. I’m moving and shaking, backwards and from cold perhaps, but still.
(and yes, maybe a little OCD in that I work pretty hard to eliminate resistance. The results, sometimes, speak for themselves.)
“Hmmm, you don’t understand where I got those things huh? Impossible, says you. Given my readings are right, says you. Doubt, cynicism. And you with 7 posts. But yes, I’m aware that human nature prevails. Science has been misleading and dead wrong many times before. But that’s a whole nother story.”
Well if I were to send you mine and you modifyed it the same as yours then got the same results, everyone would have to believe you! 0:)
Send it, we’ll see.
If your willing.I’m not real happy with the green tint of the de-dolmed Xpg’s anyways.What tints are the bare Hi-Xpl’s available in? Oh wait, this would be done in the name of science. So the same temp. emmiters would have to be used.You know, to make this “test” valid.
Doubt is not the same as cynicism. And questioning someone's results is nothing personal where I come from (=science originally) but is actually a healthy thing. I admit this is not science but a hobby forum, and scientific proof of everything is luckily not required (that would take away a lot of fun out of the hobby), but nevertheless, science applies way better to flashlights than to wives, and I do not disapprove doubts every now and then. As I see it, Fra881 did not mean to disrespect your results when questioning them, and anyone's right to do that has nothing to do with a post count.
Not offended, laughing about it… it’s all good.
I build lights to play with, mostly for the build process itself as I’ve kinda become hooked on the mod. So day in day out, they’re just toys and it really doesn’t matter what anyone believes or disbelieves. For me,the UI on this one will keep it on the shelf more than it’s used, 5K, 10K or whatever it’s output is.
Still though, when someone gives a “fact” it’s not usually a good idea to rebuff that fact with statements like “that’s impossible”, because in a lot of circles that’s calling the person a liar. I, myself, could care less. Y’all aren’t here, y’all can’t see it, so it’s all just speculation in a forum.
It won’t be long until other’s put these emitters in this light and it’ll be interesting to see how those lights fare. I know not to take offense because I have a history of being very forgetful, I could well be doing some little thing wrong and have my results skewed. Pretty sure that’s not the case here as I’ve gone about testing it in various ways and everything pans out. I’m really curious myself as to how this one could be showing me these results when all indications are that it’s “impossible”.
So, what can I do to test it further in order for science to prevail? Y’all want a movie, walking into the woods and using other known lights and then this one? What can I do, as much for myself as for y’all? Want me to send it to manxbuggy1 and rdrfronty to have them test it? Send it to Richard? I’m willing to get some independent results to see how they stack up, because I too want to know why.
I’d send it to you djozz, but I’m afraid it’d melt your styro balls. 
Edit: Post counts are indicative of experience, in most cases, so a noob to the scene questioning an “elder” is disrespectful in and of itself. Has all tradition gone to Hades in a handbasket?
to be honest, I’m a bit speechless. how did you get so offended, seriously.
first of all notice my first post in this topic is asking you about how fast it gets hot after 20sec, because I’m trying to decide whether to wait for the HI version or get the XPG2 now. doesn’t appear to be a post from somebody doubting you.
also, here is where you think I’m saying it’s impossible your light puts out 12k lumens.
if you’re still convinced I said that, please read it again.
“given Dale’s measurements are correct” means I take that for correct hypothesis, and I’m looking for an explanation that includes that as a result.
eventually, you could also go on CPF and read my last post in Vinh’s M43 topic and see for yourself what I write about your measurements out of this forum.
this said, I believe my only 8 posts will remain like that for the time being, at least in this topic. good day
Nearly all single-cell FET drivers or other direct-drive configs limit output based on voltage, not current. The cell voltage sags under load, the LED Vf gets higher under load and heat, and where they meet is where the output settles. This means a 4.35V cell will generally put out more light than a 4.2V cell, and causes the usual direct-drive output curve where it declines steadily until the cell is empty.
The Meteor uses a boost circuit though, so perhaps it has a fairly steady voltage and it lets through as many amps as possible until its output voltage meets the combined emitter Vf.
I only mention this because the charts someone posted earlier show XP-L with a lower Vf than XP-G2 at the same amperage, and that could explain part of why it appears to run at higher amps.
Edit: This is the chart I’m referring to:
(note how, at a Vf of 3.17, the XP-G2 puts out 519.7 lm at 1.2A while the XP-L HI puts out 613.6 lm at 1.5A)
