【New Sofirn HS21 announcement】The first Sofirn headlamp with gesture control function

[mcjtom]

The IR is off by default and has to be purposely activated with a triple click from on. When the light is turned off for at least 5 seconds, the IR becomes inactive again when you turn the light back on. In other words, it doesn’t come into play when you don’t want it, unless you’re prone to accidental triple-clicking when the light is on :⁠-⁠)

Covering the IR with tape and then turning the light on and triple clicking on it has an interesting net effect: it effectively does what you want - the IR is activated, but because it’s always covered and not covered and then uncovered, it does nothing (I wrongly predicted that it would turn the light off after 3 seconds) and the light shines on.

[mcjtom]

@AK-Adventurist

separate on/off switch

And it was so perfect already… :⁠-⁠).

Turning the intensity dial to your desired level from off could be done so swiftly that you wouldn’t even notice that as the levels are ascending. One twist of the wrist! (that’s a great marketing slogan I think). Only one intuitive operation - no more thinking, remembering sequences, searching for a button - can be done with gloves! It’s not a sniper rifle scope where the trigger is also required :⁠-⁠)

p.s. another technique that may work for you even if there is no button is the famous ‘battery cap quarter turn maneuver’. In the dials-only arrangement it should instantly turn the light on at any pre-dialed mode and intensity combination.

[mcjtom]

@jon_slider

Not in the same league, and not even on the topic, but just found this thread based on your comments about the rotary switches in the HS21 thread, and I figured I will enquire.

There are not that many lights with rotary switches, though I’ve seen, but not used, a few diving lights with such a switch. From the perspective of usability, especially in headlamps, would you comment on what’s possible with rotary switch only?

Would indexing or smooth regulation work better? Are you aware of a rotary dial that you would push in to lock the light and pull to unlock at the off position (or maybe at all positions)? Does the idea of two dials only for the light like HS21 workable? I like dials, I know other people like dials, why there are so few lights with dials?

[jon_slider]

I appreciate all the info you have shared about how the HS21 operates.

I made a mental note to follow your suggestion to use battery disconnect to go back to default low outputs…

I have a Sofirn HS21 coming and the motion sensing switch is something Im looking forward to trying.

[mcjtom]

@Quadrupel

This is not “Keep It Simple” design for sure.

An observation as this lamp keeps growing on me without any potential UI changes that I keep imagining: in its base setting, the one that you achieve breaking the circuit briefly by twisting the battery cap, all the four modes default to Low.

That is reported as 2 lm for Red, 30 lm for high-CRI Flood, 50 lm for throwish Spot, and 100 lm for Spot+Flood extravaganza. All modes, in all likelihood, will keep their initial brightness constant for several hours if not days at those levels. This light with the original battery has the ‘luminous capacity’ of maybe some 1,500 lm·h at lower currents, after all.

To me this is a pretty usable source of light already without any adjustments by button-clicking or IR gestures - just turn the single dial, if you have to, and find out which of the 4 ‘Low’ modes works best for what you need.

[mcjtom]

@koef3

Regarding the red LEDs: I would also clearly prefer a deep red LED with around 650-670 nm, as this is the only way to make night vision halfway possible, as the human eye’s L cone cells are almost fully activated with “normal red” light. The sensitivity of this is far lower than that of a normal red LED with 625-635 nm (which the HFL1-R presumably has).

The night vision adaptation rates have been a subject of contention and a lot of interest, often by navies in the 50’s and 60’s. Here is a short paper that tries to figure out what works best.

The major conclusions, more or less, are that red is better than white at higher intensities, but not so much at dimmer lighting, and, that how deep the red is makes a little difference, but nowhere near as much as reducing intensity.

p.s. So my take is: trying to preserve the night adaptation (that may take some long minutes to develop) but still be able to see something - keep it dim and avoid blue.

[YuvalS]

Seems like very suitable for caving:

• Combination of spot and flood
• Easy to operate with glove
• Gestures can be used to avoid touch it with muddy hands

[AK-Adventurist]

Turning it fast through levels to get what I want would be too fiddly, and I’d bet too flashy. Simplicity of On and Off in one fell swoop, thanks.

This discussion has made me realize though what I’d want… We’re talking about the wrong base light to modify for me.

True dual channel with true dual interfaces. No emitter selector ring on the front. I basically want a rotary switch HS20. Two emitters and two completely physically separated interfaces.

Each end of the tube with a meaty easy to use with gloves Rocher Switch in the center, thats on/off for one emitter. Then a ring around the tube that is mode select. preferably with a raised bar/lever or gear like lugs thats easily gripable. (becasue a great deal of my use is at 0 to -40 degrees in heavy winter gloves!)

Left emitter flood, the switch and rotary on the left end for that. Same with the right end, for right side spot emitter.

I am invisioning a rotary switch that is spring loaded momentary, an e-switch I think it would be called. Center neutral, turn forward 1/8 turn to go up one level, and the knob spring returns to center. Rotate back to go down a level. Go up two? twist, twist forward. Even greater would be smooth ramping interface, same directions just twist and hold.

(like some car radios used to be, left and right momentary twist for scrolling channels–Took me hours to remember were I’ve used this kind of knob before!)

To get both on you simply turn both on.

The only down side I can see is it might not exactly be one hand usable… Right now I can operate both emitters of my HS20 with either hand because of the top switches. Might not do that with the off side dial… Maybe at that point dual top switches like it has now, and then end rotary dias as I stated… That could still work… I think.

OK, it needs more thought. Lol.
Yeah, I’m picky. lol.

I’m toying with the idea of getting a second HS20 and trying a conversion. Need to look around at options for rotary switches…

On other concepts, have you seen the new Wurrkos light that is a rotary knob?

Its on one end, its to select emitters, with a somewhat seamless blending of the two. Like a smooth ramp from one emitter to the other, and a mix in between. On/off and brightless setting is a button in the center of the knob.

Not for me since I want sepparate setting for each emitter, but its a really interesting interface, and its cool to see different ideas, and concepts coming out.

[AK-Adventurist]

@mcjtom

The IR is off by default and has to be purposely activated with a triple click from on. When the light is turned off for at least 5 seconds, the IR becomes inactive again when you turn the light back on. In other words, it doesn’t come into play when you don’t want it, unless you’re prone to accidental triple-clicking when the light is on :⁠-⁠)

thats the reason a lot of people, myself included, hate strobe on a light…You’ve never accidentally double/ triple/quad clicked (like for me with winter gloves on) and strobed/blinded yourself? It’s very possible and very annoying. Weird Things happen, and I’d much rather be able to bypass the mode all together instead of assume it’ll never come on… Thus the idea to just block the sensor.

Covering the IR with tape and then turning the light on and triple clicking on it has an interesting net effect: it effectively does what you want - the IR is activated, but because it’s always covered and not covered and then uncovered, it does nothing (I wrongly predicted that it would turn the light off after 3 seconds) and the light shines on.

Sweet! Thank you for that test, much appreciated!
I hadn’t thought of that, if the tape over it would trigger some kind of proximity type dimming or shut off. Cool.

I figure it would work OK in general, this is actually a rather common cheat for outdoor yard/security lights, to modify whether they come on or not, at different times, simply tape over the sensor. Good for dusk/dawn activating lights too.

Overall, the further we go here I’m thinking the HS21 is Not for Me.

I do want to again just say Thank You. You and several others have done great reviews, and explored a lot of information, and some new ideas… I only started to see some things I’d like and not like after you started talking about a modified version of this interface.

Modified I might like it, but as is, I doubt I’ll get one.
And thats OK. Its still fun to see and explore options.

[mcjtom]

@AK-Adventurist

Two emitters and two completely physically separated interfaces.

Thats 2 swithes + 2 dials already. What do we do with red? I like red.

[AK-Adventurist]

@mcjtom

Thats 2 swithes + 2 dials already. What do we do with red? I like red.

Hmm. I didn’t even consider needing space for controlling that.

I won’t say I hate red lights, but I definetally have No use for it whatsoever, I can’t use it. I know its supposed to be great for night vision and better for your eyes, but I just can’t see a damn thing with it, For me its useless, so I forgot all about it.

Maybe a double click code or something on one of the switches? Turn one emitter of and on 3 times fast and it switches that set of switches to the red emmiter?
Thats not great, but as best I can think of right now.

As a side note I find it interesting that red lights are still the norm for this… A buddy was in the Navy, in submarines for a while. They had replaced all the red lights that was standard for decades in those dark tubes, with green. It apparently being much easier on your eyes, and better contrast for reading, mapping, etc. I find it interesting that no(not that I know of) headlamps or flashlights use green instead of red.

[jon_slider]

@mcjtom

The major conclusions, more or less, are that red is better than white at higher intensities, but not so much at dimmer lighting, and, that how deep the red is makes a little difference, but nowhere near as much as reducing intensity.

Thank you very much for your thoughts and link, which says:

“In the case of the red stimulation, red 630 nM and red 650 mM, these two colors have about the same times of dark adaptation.”

“an intensity of 10 footcandles is bright enough, for reading. After reading, or working, in such illumination one requires, about 4 minutes to become dark adapted, for red light, and about 9 minutes for white light.”

“For 100 footcandles of illumination the time to become dark adapted, for red about was 14 minutes, and for white was about 21 minutes”

That is very helpful info.

[mcjtom]

This paper seems to tell a similar story: ‘As long as it’s not too blue, it’s fine - just keep it dim and do it quickly, if possible’.

[jon_slider]

thank you

fwiw, I dont prioritize “Dark adaptation” after using a flashlight

for me the topic of “preserving Dark adaptation” is a Red Herring

I have a flashlight so I dont Need to see in the dark without one.

my primary use for Red Light is to preserve Sleep Adaptation… iow, I use red when I wake up to use the toilet.

Red does not deplete the sleep hormone Melatonin…

I dont use Red to preserver night vision hormones (Rhodopsin), I use Red to preserve Sleep Hormones (Melatonin)

Red Light has a lower Circadian Stimulus than Warm White:

For me, Red Light is for Melatonin preservation, not for Rhodopsin preservation.

Red light is also useful when camping, because it attracts less flying bugs.

[mcjtom]

The question is if the difference between red LEDs in your headlamp, which peak at around 630 nm, and the same red LEDs in your headlamp which peak at around 660 nm, makes any practical physiological difference under either consideration?

[Quadrupel]

ChatGPT here

[jon_slider]

Red light is better for Dark Adaptation And Also for Sleep Adaptation

Regarding Sleep hormone Melatonin:

2 lumens of 2200K (CS 0.685) has a 63% higher Circadian Stimulus than 5 lumen Red light (CS 0.420):

Even when the Red light is more than twice as bright as the white light, The data indicates that the Red light is better for retaining Sleep Adaptation (Melatonin)

Regarding Vision hormone Rhodopsin:

recovery from white light takes twice as long as from Red light:

“an intensity of 10 footcandles is bright enough, for reading. After reading, or working, in such illumination one requires, about 4 minutes to become dark adapted, after red light, and about 9 minutes after white light.”

The data indicates that after turning off equally dim Red light compared to White light, the Red light user has twice as fast recovery of Dark Adaptation (Rhodopsin). This implies that Red can be used twice as bright as White, and still recover Dark Adaptation in equal time.

The nice thing about the Sofirn HS21 is that it has BOTH Red and White… fwiw, the Red is dimmer than the White…

@mcjtom

breaking the circuit briefly by twisting the battery cap, all the for modes default to Low.

That is reported as 2 lm for Red, 30 lm for high-CRI Flood

Since the Sofirn HS21 Red output of 2 lm is Lower than the White Output of 30lm, the Red light will preserve Dark Adaptation, as well as Sleep Adaptation, better than the White light.

So, the user of a Sofirn HS21 has good options for different scenarios

[Quadrupel]

…circadian stimulus… sleep adaptation… melatonin… When im going to sleep im turning all lights off and that is the best what we can do. If you don’t believe in me, ask GPT

[mcjtom]

@jon_slider

an intensity of 10 footcandles is bright enough, for reading…

Just want to add that the illumination of 10 footcandles translates to over 100 lux. That’s fairly bright - something like reading a book in a park on an overcast day or in a typical living room.

Very roughly, if your reading light beam in a headlamp is quite dispersed, say around 1 cd/lm just like red and flood in HS21, and you keep the book 0.5 m away from your face, you would need some 25 lumens for that, or some 100 lm if the (white) object you’re illuminating is a meter away, for instance, if I got it right.

With the headlamp on moon-levels of a few lumens, you can probably still read, and the dark readaptation should be even shorter. The red should have less of an edge over the white at such low intensities, night vision adaptation wise, according to the studies quoted above.

I wonder what’s the experience of astronomers among us is: a) is the v. low level white light just as good as perhaps slightly higher intensity red in seeing around AND preserving the night vision? b) if red is to be used, does it matter much what dominant wavelength it has?

[mcjtom]

@AK-Adventurist

They had replaced all the red lights that was standard for decades in those dark tubes, with green. It apparently being much easier on your eyes, and better contrast for reading, mapping, etc.

One reason that I’ve also heard of is that apparently red light causes more blooming and artifacts than green by the amplification tubes of night vision goggles, and at low intensity it’s still good enough and better than white in not messing up the night vision to the naked eye.