Nichia 219: Why do they even make them?

[texaspyro]

A lot of high-CRI leds get their magic foo powers by adding a filtering material to the phosphor. It does not convert the blue led light to red, but does tweak the spectrum to boost the red end of the output. It kills some of the blue and green light, thus lowering the LED efficiency.

[Pulsar13]

If you read business news and reports, you'll see that the driving market force is lumens/watt. Whichever maker gets the highest number, gets the highest shareholders confidence.

So that, kids, is why every maker is chasing lumens.

[CEHepp]

Why do they make them?

Because they’re the best high CRI LED I have ever seen.

[spaceboy]

So what are the cheapest flashlights using the 219?

[Helios1 (Helios-)]

@CEHepp

Sweet line up :bigsmile:

[oRAirwolf]

Jason at EDC+ sells some nice lights with 219’s in them. He’s a really nice guy and great to work with.

Xeno Cube E11v8
Xeno F7v6
Xeno E03 (Black, Blue, and Red)

The F7v6 is $40. Not bad for a nice light me thinks…

He also sells a triple 219 P60. Its solid copper and digitally regulated. It runs at 2A giving 465 ANSI OTF lumens. I have the Triple XP-G2 NW version of it and it is very very nice.

EDCPlus, Every day carry items and more!

[CalvinIS]

@okwchin

Had to read the whole lot to check, but my simple answer is as stated before,

Lumens Sell.

And even as a neutral tint snob myself, I do find that a Neutral white Cree XP-G in the same torch as a Neutral tint HighCRI 219 is different. The output of the Nichia is apparently equivalent to a Q4? while the XP-G neutral is in the R4 region, a Whole brightness bracket above. And it is somewhat visible (also the different Vf helps to make the difference larger in the V10R, with the Cree causing the driver to drive it harder). The difference of 70/80 CRI to 92 CRI is also noticeable, but in isolation, not hugely different.

Between the two, its a tough call, but not a huge difference. I guess as a flashlight manufacturer, even if both emitters are the same price, the one with more lumens will sell better on specs for a torch. Our eyes perceive brightness on a logarithmic scale (i.e. diminishing returns), however when reading a lumen number on an advertisment, we read it in a linear sense, so those extra 10-20% lumens appear to be alot on paper, but practically, are barely visible.

If torches were sold in person, I would guess that there would be more neutral tints around, but many are buying on paper, or on a computer screen these days, so the lumens still sell well.

@Slim Pickens

The XP-G2 beats a regular 219 for efficacy-no bones about it-but the fact is CRI kills efficacy. It’s not quite an apples-apples comparison since converting blue light to longer wavelengths (of which the HCRI 219 produces more relatively) becomes less efficient the greater wavelength difference is. Eyeballing those relative spectral power distribution curves:

The XP-G2 neutral has a larger spike around 440nm. The Nichia also does not so strongly favor particular wavelength regions between 470-650nm. I believe the smoother (somewhat less discontinuous) curve in that region contributes to superior CRI.

For example, the green RSPD curve represents a Neutral 4A or 4D XP-G/G2 (4500K), and I think one of those bins shares some chromacity coordinates with the Nichia SW45 tint bin. In this case the Cree and Nichia produce similar tint but have different CRI values.

+1

[Firelight2]

@oRAirwolf

Jason at EDC+ sells some nice lights with 219’s in them. He’s a really nice guy and great to work with.

Xeno Cube E11v8
Xeno F7v6
Xeno E03 (Black, Blue, and Red)

The F7v6 is $40. Not bad for a nice light me thinks…

He also sells a triple 219 P60. Its solid copper and digitally regulated. Each 219 gets 2A giving 465 ANSI OTF lumens. I have the Triple XP-G2 NW version of it and it is very very nice.

http://edcplus.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&zenid=54fc9812c533698365d3c0c9eb9e7df8&keyword=219

Actually I think the EDC+ triple 219 P60 is 2 amps total … so only 0.66 amps per emitter.

[oRAirwolf]

@Firelight2

@oRAirwolf

Jason at EDC+ sells some nice lights with 219’s in them. He’s a really nice guy and great to work with. Xeno Cube E11v8 Xeno F7v6 Xeno E03 (Black, Blue, and Red) The F7v6 is $40. Not bad for a nice light me thinks… He also sells a triple 219 P60. Its solid copper and digitally regulated. Each 219 gets 2A giving 465 ANSI OTF lumens. I have the Triple XP-G2 NW version of it and it is very very nice. http://edcplus.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&zenid=54fc9812c533698365d3c0c9eb9e7df8&keyword=219

Actually I think the EDC+ triple 219 P60 is 2 amps total … so only 0.66 amps per emitter.

Fixed :zipper_mouth_face:

[DB_Custom (Dale)]

Maybe I need to buy some more 219s as it sounds like they are struggling Would hate to think the day might come that they are no longer available.

I have a few 5000k versions that the charts say make 475 lumens at 1.5A. Direct drive on a 10440 they’re very close to the same as an XP-G2 in similar tint. I mounted one of each on copper and the Nichia has a tighter beam using the same reflector with a tighter hot spot. Not sure at this time but this may be what goes in my custom Ti light.

I have a few other lights using 219s, including an L2P with EDC+ Triple 219 and that one in particular is a favorite…use it for lighting macro shots and close-ups of other flashlights. 2A is plenty, usually use medium or lo as hi is too bright for what I use it for. (my DMM shows 1.93A at the tail, for what that’s worth…my meter is cheap)

Seems to me that the high end lights use Nichia 219 more prevalently. They’re not as common in budget lights where it’s more about bang for the buck. The budget frame of mind is difficult to overcome, tell the truth now…when I say I got a deal on the triple 219 for $70 + the host most of y’all are immediately put off, be honest! But it’s a great combination and I favor it over most of my other lights. The EDC+ triple XP-G2 is also a great one, same pricing, and they carefully color matched the 3 emitters for a beautiful White “no-tint” output…exactly what I wanted! (also in an L2P host)

So my point for the OP is that, while discerning flashligteers settle for nothing less, the target market lies in an entirely different field. Most likely a professional “lab” type setting.

[oRAirwolf]

All this talk about Nichia 219's got under my skin. I ended up ordering the EDC+ X60L3 triple Nichia 219 P60.... I already have the XP-G2 version of that P60...You guys are destroying my wallet and causing my friends to question my sanity when they see the row of flashlights in my office...

[CalvinIS]

@oRAirwolf

All this talk about Nichia 219’s got under my skin. I ended up ordering the EDC+ X60L3 triple Nichia 219 P60…. I already have the XP-G2 version of that P60…You guys are destroying my wallet and causing my friends to question my sanity when they see the row of flashlights in my office…

0:)

[JohnnyMac]

I agree those saying is all about the lumens. I have an edc light with the 219 and the tint is amazing. The reason it doesn't see more use is that I'm a lumen junkie and the most out pulls is 1.6a and isn't all that bright compared to my other lights. If it was a smaller host of carry it more. Ideally the 219 needs to be in an AA or cr123 host where is output will meet expectations. The OP has definitely got me thinking about building a new light with one and I also see a triple 219 in my near future. ;)

[djozz]

@JohnnyMac

I agree those saying is all about the lumens. I have an edc light with the 219 and the tint is amazing. The reason it doesn't see more use is that I'm a lumen junkie and the most out pulls is 1.6a and isn't all that bright compared to my other lights. If it was a smaller host of carry it more. Ideally the 219 needs to be in an AA or cr123 host where is output will meet expectations. The OP has definitely got me thinking about building a new light with one and I also see a triple 219 in my near future. ;)

I totally agree on the size that 219 lights should be, ie single AA or cr123. But I am still planning on building one in a compact 18650 thrower. The output tests of the 219 on copper have never been done (as far as I am aware of), so on hoping that the max. lumens topping out at a bit higher amps when on copper, I will try to run it at 2.5A, see how it goes...

[Ouchyfoot]

You should get the Xeno F7 Nichia 219. It is the throwiest Nichia light I have seen yet. Deep smooth reflector with an absolutely immaculate beam profil. Not a hint of a ring or any imperfections.

[djozz]

@Ouchyfoot

You should get the Xeno F7 Nichia 219. It is the throwiest Nichia light I have seen yet. Deep smooth reflector with an absolutely immaculate beam profil. Not a hint of a ring or any imperfections.

Nah, that one is much too nice looking and already done, my build will be ugly and ringy and brighter J)

[Boaz]

Never seen a ringy nichia ..... I have one in a smooth reflector about the size of a p60 reflector . w/ no rings

[Ouchyfoot]

I have a Nichia SMO P60 from Custom Lights. It has the ringiest, ugliest beam profile of any light I have ever owned.

[Boaz]

if it's a p60 than why not just toss another reflector on it ?

don't you have any other drop ins ?

[JohnnyMac]

@Boaz

if it's a p60 than why not just toss another reflector on it ?

don't you have any other drop ins ?

He might also try just tightening or loosening the reflector to adjust the focus a bit. Might find it clears everything up…might not. Worth a try at least.