Novatac flickers, low battery, full battery, primary battery

LED Flashlights – General Info CR123A Flashlights
1

Novatac flicker, visible with naked eye, and also on camera, on lowest mode, when 16340 battery goes below 3.6v

Novatac flicker on lowest mode, when 16340 battery is fully charged.

Not visible to naked eye, (unless waving the light), yes visible on camera, both still shot and video.

Novatac flicker on lowest mode, Visible to naked eye when waving, with full 16340 battery. Can be captured on Video and Still shot, with some difficulty.

this photo is one of the video frames:

Note this is Constant Current Flicker, not PWM.

2

I remember that the flickering was a problem that many encountered with Novatac flashlights…Did you tried a “battery detect reset” ?

EDIT : copy/past from CPF

3

I believe what people were reporting is the behavior Im documenting in this thread, when the battery goes below 3.6v

Yes, the battery detection of the light I am testing, a Novatac SPA Defense 120T, is set to 16340.

If I insert a CR123, below 3v, the light steps down through all higher modes, and goes into visible lowest mode strobing and will not produce any of the other brighter modes. This is also true with the 16340 below 3v.

The point of this thread is that below 3.6v there is also a visible flicker signal, that can be used as a reminder to charge the battery, before losing access to all the other modes. The flicker Im posting about, just below 3.6v is separate from the Low Voltage Warnings, that start at 3.0v

a note about the battery detect reset on Novatacs
because the instructions require holding the button during the dim light that only lasts 1 second when the tailcap is tightened, I find it easier to simply hold the button when tightening the tailcap. But, be sure to release the button after 5 seconds, this will only reset battery detection. IF the button is held for 10 seconds, it causes a Factory Reset, and the 250 clicks will be required to reenable Programming.

iow, my Novatac 120T is cracked to act like a 120P.

FWIW, battery resets are not automatic, and the Novatac STAYS in 16340 detection mode, even after multiple battery swaps, even if the battery is removed to check for voltage, and it falls below 3v.

On a modern HDS, you cannot open the light and reinsert a LiIon that tests below 3v, or it will reset the battery detection automatically to CR123 Primary, thereby causing OVERDISCHARGE of the LiIon. This is why I prefer to use Protected LiIon, and I do NOT rely on the Low Voltage Protection built into an HDS, or Novatac. The Novatac remembers its 16340 setting, and an HDS will “forget it”, when inserting a LiIon below 3v.

FWIW, My Novatac will also flicker both visibly and photographable, when set to its 5.4 lumen mode. It does this even on a fully charged battery. The bottom line is Novatacs have lots of different Flicker Features :slight_smile:

4

Actually, I think you can on a HDS, if for example you’re running a RCR123 and you switch to a CR123A within the 60s delay (for soft reset), the light simply won’t switch on….so if you open and close it within 60s with a depleted 16340, you’re still good to go !

But the contrary isn’t true, if you switch from a CR123A to a 16340, the light will immediately notice the difference (same behavior as the Novatac BTW).

The Novatac forces you to do a battery reset, the HDS does it automatically, but you have a 60s “grace” delay.

One thing that could be interesting to see on Novatac (if you’re eager to redo a 250 click routine to enable programming) could be to try if it can blink out it’s firmware version like the HDS. On the HDS you have to remove the battery 60s (or open the light while it’s on), then hold the button while screwing the battery tube. It will switch on dimly, then brighter for 10s, then go off for 10s (hold the button !), then after 10s should start blinking it’s firmware number, until you unscrew the battery compartment (number displayed with button clicked should be the version, for example 1.23, and the value displayed with the button released could be the lumen value rounded to 2 digit. My 100HC gives 10, then 1.23, my 140 gives 14, then 2.11. The button only has function for versions 1.xx.
(since the legacy clicky can be version 1.22 or 1.23, I guess Novatac could be like version 1.10 or something). To be tested on a “real” 120P, where you don’t need to click 250 times !

Sorry this is off topic. The Novatac also has a tendency to flicker more on CR123A than 16340.

5

LOL, nope, not gonna do a factory reset
so, not likely to determine the Firmware version of my Novatac

I definitely appreciate your posts, no hijack at all, Im grateful to learn more from your experience with HDS, I have only tried a Novatac so far

suffice to say Novatac gives ample low battery warnings:

  1. when the battery goes below 3.6v, low mode will flicker visibly, but other modes will still function
  2. when the battery goes below 3v, low mode will strobe visibly, and no other modes will be available

then there is the meaningless visible flicker at 5 lumens, which is always there, regardless how full the battery is

I have no interest in using CR123, I dislike how they smell.
I am very happy with Protected 16340, no matter what the Novatac tries to do, it cannot overdischarge a protected cell.

I like Protection, and particularly the USB rechargeable Protected cells from Olight:

I recommend against the Fenix USB rechargeable version due to excess length.
CR123 Primary on left, Olight protected USB rechargeable 16340 middle, Fenix protected USB rechargeable16340 on right:

6

It is true that CR123A smell! I have a bunch of them, need to use them before they expire…16340 have little capacity. Good thing with Novatac is you can perhaps using 18350 batteries, replacing the spring by a brass/aluminum contact bar.

Will try to have my Novatac blink out its version.

7

yes, about half of a CR123 Primary
they last a long time for me, as I dont use the maximum mode hardly at all. Most of my use is below 20 lumens and indoors.

Firmware versions are a new topic for me. I dont know what features they offer. Will be curious to learn more from you about that.

8

It’s mostly hidden features, like a supposed better efficiency…also some change in the programming, the way the menu work the way the low battery indicator works. Also bug corrections !
I don’t know much about that, you have some details,on the HDS website, I can only see the visible part of the iceberg : electronic lockout, low battery indicator, and starting firmware 2.10 (or 2.11 ?), the soft start when the light has been off for a while. The, you can enter the details of the default programming, tactical modes, etc…I think the last 2.18 offers the best compromise so far :slight_smile:

9

Ive read that Novatacs have “much ”shorter runtimes”:HDS Systems: Legacy products - Legacy products: EDC Executive, EDC LE, EDC Rotary, EDC Tactical, EDC Twisty, EDC Ultimate, EDC Basic, Arc4, Action Light on the low settings” than HDS EDC models

Novatacs vary widely in runtime between each other too… 4 samples with different runtimes (also not calibrated to the same levels)
pic is a link

.

meanwhile, I did a little exercise to determine at what lumen level my camera can no longer capture Novatac SPA Flicker… the answer is, above 7 lumens, no Photo flicker… noticeably different scan lines at 0.4 and 5 lumens…

.

and other fascinating trivia… check out this Driver and UI description, doesnt it sound like HDS/Novatac?

Programming: Each mode can be configured to a one of the 24 available (visually linear) levels of brightness. There are also some special functions which can be configured to any brightnes level, too: strobe, beacon

Battery monitoring: Whenever the battery falls below 3V under load, brightness is reduced (about half). The reduced load usually brings up the voltage a bit. When it drops below 3V again, brightness is halved again - and so on, down to a very low level. It will not switch off and leave you in complete darkness.

thats actually H17f w lucidrv2 …
I wonder if H17f driver eliminates the Flicker the camera sees on Novatacs?
pic is a link

10

Well, since the h17fw is using linear 7135 chips, it means the dimming is PWM (although it seems to switch to an only 7135 350mA for the moonlight modes). Maybe the PWM is fast enough so you can’t detect it ?

11

yes,
it would be intertesting to see a Novatac modded to Triple Nichia, w H17f driver. I believe CRX has built one like that for ven

The H17f driver seems to have some very similar features to the Novatac driver, including 24 power levels that each increase at the same rate that HDS ramping does. And like the Novatac, the H17f driver has a 3v low battery step down… I wonder if HDS drivers are built by Dr. Jones?:wink:

re the PWM, the H17f driver link says:
“16 kHz PWM frequency: Invisible and inaudible.”

the fastest I can detect with my eyes seems to be 2kHz

given that the stock Novatac driver flickers visibly, as well as on camera, my guess is it oscillates at less than 2kHz…, technically Novatac Flicker is not from PWM, its from Constant Current Ripple… same difference, it causes photo interference, and is visible to my trained eye.

12

Yes, Novatacs flicker in the lowest mode. My Wichita also does this. A guy on CPF who worked for Novatac acknowledged this problem in one of his posts.

13

I have a few h17f’s Jon, in fact one of my fav drivers all this time on. Not in a Novatac though, I enjoy the beam as is ,with a nichia transplant thanks to CRX. It’s a good general use all rounder for me.

You can detect with a camera, but more importantly not by eye(for me anyway).

14

excellent info ven, very helpful
@16kHz the PWM on the H17f is outside my vision range too
I can only detect visibly, up to 2kHz, as in my Olight S Mini on lowest mode

Im not as bad a flicker snob as I once was
I even tolerate the Novatac flicker now… in fact, I use it as a “recharge the battery” indicator, since the flicker becomes obvious to me, when the battery goes below 3.6v

I have also figured out which modes on the Novatac flicker Visibly, the most. I can avoid those levels… the 5 lumen, and lowest low, are the worst Visible flicker sources. I can see the dots on lowest mode if I wave the light to check, but, LightWaving is not a primary use for me… LOL… I have mellowed with age, and dont wave my lights as much as I used to… :wink:

Your CRX modded Novatacs have inspired me to pursue a single N219b mod, despite the NovaFlicker features.

I find the Novatac a really fun little programmable… It has one of the throwiest beams in my selection.

15

My Novatac SPA 120T also likes to flicker on the 5 lumen level when the 16340 goes below 3.6v…

There is deep history regarding various types of HDS and Novatac flicker, here’s Henry talking about it, back in 2008

Some Flicker is Visible to some people, while others wont notice. Separate from Visible, there is also Flicker that can be photographed but is not Visible to the naked eye. I tolerate visible flicker in some lights, because I want to enjoy some of their other features. I feel that way about my Novatac, I like the UI, and I tolerate the flicker.

For reference here is a current model, 2018 HDS Flicker reference

[QUOTE=maukka]I noticed some flicker on the lower levels 1-6 on my light. If someone’s interested in the output behavior measured OTF, here’s what it looks like. Measured levels 4 through 24. Sensor sensitivity / scope resolution not high enough for the lowest levels which also explains the low bit depth on the low levels.” The snob index”:Approximating flicker visibility of 5+ usually indicates that you can notice the flicker if you know how to search for it. 20+ is getting to the distracting territory. The flicker on the HDS will probably never be visible in normal use.

https://imgur.com/a/vWucy5e [/QUOTE]

here is one of the HDS flicker measurements maukka posted in the above link

Here is an Olight S Mini, also from a post by maukka, to whom Im very grateful.

both of those Flicker rates can be visible to some people, but most wont notice.

16

More like two thirds. Since the voltage is different you can’t directly compare rated mAh, you have to compare watt-hours.
1500mAh CR123 =4.5Wh
700mAh 16350 = 2.59Wh
880mAh 16340 = 2.96Wh
Let’s average the best capacity and best output 16340s and we get ~790mAh.

The Wh of a 16340 with 790mAh rated capacity would be 2.92Wh which is 64.888% of 4.5Wh or ~2/3 the capacity.

I find in my use of 16340 / CR123 lights (not much) I greatly prefer the ability to charge the batteries and the increased output over that ~33% extra capacity. Infact I don’t notice the reduced capacity IRL at all.

17

The Novatacs are one of my all time favorite lights. Had a few modded ones, modded a few myself. Did the bar trick for 18650.

I lost one and it bothered me so much I sold all but 2. Gave one to stepson and other is still in blister pack.

The H17F driver is a clicky switch driver, I couldn’t find room for a switch.

NOW this new driver that is coming out in the FW3A might be a option.

Make sure your positive spring doesn’t have the end of the spring exposed, I screwed a few into the holes on some cells.

If you do the bar trick, be carefull, I believe its how I killed a couple switches.

If anyone reading this bought I Novatac triple from me and wants to sell it back, Please PM me.

18

thanks, I like that
I dont find 16340 short lived, I came from AAA
I still use the same levels, under 50 lumens, they just last longer w 16340

thanks for the driver info… Im actually a bit loyal to the Novatac UI atm

Ive been researching triple options, I just learned that

  1. datiLED will mod a Nova to a triple, PM him
    he uses a lathe to custom build a heatsink… quality all the way

2. you can buy a Novatac SPA on Ebay, there are several

here is how one guy rolls his own triple, that has inspired my research

here is the preloaded 219c 5000k board he used for a cheap and dirty mod, no lathe work…

https://intl-outdoor.com/noctigon-3xp-mcpcb-nichia-nvsw219ct-r9050-d240-p-910.html

I would suggest a medium frost optic instead of narrow clear…

19

Its a great UI.
H17f can be set up to come close. Minus press-hold.

20

I dont like PWM either, or certainly when i can see it Jon. I can not or will not have a light i can see flicker! Simple as that, luckily most(pretty much all i have thinking about it)that have PWM , i can not see it. To me thats what matters, if i can not see it, no distraction……………not a problem for me. Malkoff(iirc the 3 mode) have PWM, again can not see it.
The 47’s mini have it on high , which i find kind of odd, now and then i can kind of pick something up. But i rarely use max anyway, so no big deal.

As with chadvone, the little novatacs are one of my all time fav lights. I just like the older designs, the feel/look and beam.

Bout time you got a HDS rotary Jon, too add to the family :stuck_out_tongue:

219b 4000k/219c 5000k/219b 4000k