Overblown Concerns Over Li-ion Batteries Stored in Cars

Batteries and Chargers Rechargeable Batteries
81

My take on all this:

1. Many of us have questions regarding whether lithium batteries kept in a vehicle all year long might pose any kind of risk.

2. There seems to be little evidence proving that it would be unsafe, and the few anecdotal reports of problems seem to
involve untrained users and questionable equipment (vapers using XXXFire batteries and chargers, for example).

3. Airlines and perhaps other transport companies have begun to realize that for their circumstances it is well advised to put restrictions on transport of lithium cells. That gives us pause and makes us question.

4. No one that I know of has done proper research capable of putting this question completely to rest, and the variety of cells, differences in manufacturing, and differences in use and charging will always introduce too many variables to let us
definitively say that it is safe.

5. Having said all the above, most of us feel that good quality cells properly managed are probably fine, even in a vehicle, but if we still have lingering doubts we have to exercise our own judgement. I doubt that any one “expert” will be able to say with certainty where the line is that should not be crossed. Many, many shades of grey.

82

Well said.

83

I would think that the Lithium Ion cell in all the portable GPS units stuck to the windshields of all the cars all over the world would have been exposed to the most heat. (direct sunlight). Haven’t heard of a rash of explosions. I know from experiance that these cells tend to not last as long, especially those in black GPS units and those in cars that have constant power to the cigarette lighter even when the ignition is off. Proof that a constant charge and elevated temperatures diminish the service life of these cells

84

Nothing for or against storing lithium ion batteries inside cars but for emergency usage lights stored inside said car, lithium AA just seem better suited for purpose. L91’s have 20 year shelf life at 21 degrees Celsius. Obviously lower when elevated to over 130 but every metric works in favor of primaries over rechargers in this situation.

85

Datasheets for most Li-ion, Li-primary, NiMH and alkaline batteries all specify 60C or less for storage. Li-ion is not more sensitive to hot storage conditions than the others. Storing any battery in a hot car is detrimental to its performance, but none of them are likely to explode.

86

Anyone notice that overblown is a pun? :D

87

:slight_smile: :smiley: :bigsmile: :stuck_out_tongue: :bigsmile: :smiley: :slight_smile: :party: :slight_smile: :smiley: :bigsmile: :stuck_out_tongue: :bigsmile: :smiley: :slight_smile: :party: :slight_smile: :smiley: :bigsmile: :stuck_out_tongue: :bigsmile: :smiley: :slight_smile: :party:

88

I’d like to offer a simple review of my experience to this conversation.

First off, this is my personal experience and is not meant to be a recommendation in any way to anyone on the subject. I am in no way an authority, nor have I done any research on this issue.

I have spent the last 35 years in the automotive industry, the first 20 as a dealership master technician and the last 15 as a field engineer for the manufacturer.

One of my responsibilities in the later position has been to investigate, document and to the best of my ability try to determine the root cause of thermal events in our vehicles. I performed many of these investigations alone but others with engineers specifically trained in thermals, independent investigators and members of local fire departments.

While the root cause of this type of event cannot always be determined it can almost always be narrowed down to very few possibilities.

I have never found, nor have I ever even heard from anyone that they found the root cause to be a Lithium base battery’s thermal runaway. Bear in mind that my company has vehicles (hybrid and full electric) using both NiMH and Lithium based batteries. Not to mention many vehicles have aftermarket items containing Lithium batteries.

While concern over leaving Li-Ion batteries in a vehicle may be warranted there are mundane threats all around us. Using a cheap cell phone charger, allowing a coin to fall into a power port, a Bic lighter caught in a seat track. I have seen all three of these more than once.

Personally, I have had an iTP R01 in my glove box for over 3 years now (powered by Li-Ion) along with an L2P and just added a Nitecore HC30. I know I’m hurting the batteries with the heat but I’m not worried about safety. I should say though that I do not have Li-Ion lights in my wife’s or kid’s cars.

I did have a problem a few years ago with the GPS in my wife’s car. After a year or two in her vehicles I noticed the back cover was no longer sitting flush. When I took it apart I found the battery (Lithium Polymer I believe) had blistered. No venting, just swollen out.

Again, I’m not suggesting it’s safe to leave Li-Ion in a vehicle and to the OP’s point, I don’t think I’d leave a light with multiple cells in series in my car (I’m not comfortable compounding risks). I just know threats are all around, chances are the one you’re not aware of is more likely to get you.

Be AWARE!

89

Good points, all. :slight_smile:

90

Thanks for sharing your experinced Itinifni

91

Itinifni, I just realized your name is Infiniti spelled backwards

92

You got me, but they’re not the parent company. That would be Nassin, or when I started (here in the states) Nustad. :bigsmile:

93

I don’t store flashlights with li-ion in my car, but my dashcam has a li-ion battery and the temp in my car often goes over 120F (50C).

94

How does one go about determining the root cause of a pile of slag? What percentage of vehicular combustion events get investigated? Just curious since many are asking for proof of danger where it seems to me it should be a question of proof of safety. I agree that there’s a distinct lack of evidence but as the saying goes “absence of proof is not proof of absence”. A vehicle in the northeast might hit 130 and one in southwest 160. I feel less at risk living closer to the coast and the more moderate climate than I would living further inland.

What does it take to cause thermal venting in a vehicle and under what circumstances can venting bring about ignition?

Answering those two questions would settle this for me.

95

The CDC says the interior of your car can reach 172f.

96

Thanks, ltinifni. Common sense prevails. Lacking sufficient controlled experimental results your anecdotal reports are the next best thing, and really helpful. We continue to have these cells in our vehicles, but still exercising a modicum of caution.

97

The question isn’t what the battery manufacturer’s recommend. The question is how well documented their concerns are?

If this discussion thread is any indication, then the answer is, “very little.” H)

98

In the US companies warn against everything they can think of. I have jack stands that warn against getting under the car when the jack stands are being used. I expect battery companies to be the same…if there’s a .00001 chance of something happening then they’ll warn against it.

99

Those battery warnings got me thinking, a quick check of the “Important Safety Warnings” of my old Magellan manual says:

“Keep the Magellan Maestro safe from extreme temperature conditions. For example, do not leave it exposed to direct sunlight for an extended period of time.”

Interesting…

100

So basically every Tesla is a rolling time bomb that can only be driven in 50-75 degree weather under cloudy, but dry skies and must only be parked in a climate controlled, waterproof, air sealed pressure containment housing that can absorb the inevitable explosion if any of the conditions of the warnings are ever exceeded. Got it!

KuoH