I was just browsing the Pioneman store on Aliexpress and I took a look at the Pioneman K75 listing and I noticed that there now also is an option with N5165++ 6000K LED’s, which I have trouble finding any information on them.
I also noted that the listing now claims an (FET) output of 120A(!), while I believe in the past the K75 had a 54A FET, just like Convoy. I’m not sure if the 120A FET is used on all LED options, but more on that later…
Pioneman also showed a table with all the lumen output levels from all available LED options and pay attention to the claimed lumen output on Turbo/FET with the N5165++ LED (bottom right):
54000(!) lumen seems like a huge claim and to get anywhere close to that, you need a lot of amps being available/delivered.
The K75 with N5165++ LED’s is also the most expensive option out of all the LED’s; I have no clue if that has anything to do with those LEDs being expensive, or maybe it is because of it using a different driver (with 120A FET), compared to the ‘regular’ 54A FET driver used with the other LED options?
I’m almost tempted to order a K75 with that LED, but given the fact that I have no way to measure the lumen output and measuring the amps being drawn by 3x21700 or a 46950 might be a tricky one with an clamp meter. I do have 3 brand new EVE 50PL in storage for a light like this and I also have a 46950 tube and brand new 46950 batteries to test it with.
I’m really curious to read some experiences with this light/led combo, but so far I haven’t been able to find any info/post of someone having purchased/tried this option.
EDIT:
Given that all the other LED options are 5050 LEDs, I assume the N5165++ would also be a 5050 LED. If you devide that 54000lm by 7 (LEDs), that would result in over 7700lm per LED, which sounds like an (almost) too extreme number.
If I’m correct in my thinking, there’s a LED manufacturer that’s making a 5050 version of the SFN55 with the grid closer together(less gap between the chips)
It looks very similar to the Nightwatch version of an LHP531. Koef3’s tests show individual LHP531 getting up to 6000 lumens, so I guess the numbers are at some level believable but maybe not 100% truth. I am not sure I would believe 8000 per LED out the front, or that you would get there for more than a blip of time safely without frying stuff.
I would take those numbers with a grain of salt, as Neal seems to often quote theoretical output numbers of his LEDs in isolation without accounting for actual current limits from the driver, thermals, or transmission loss…
We have reports of the 3x21C frying LHP531s under high current loads as it is due to not so great thermals of the MCPCB trace design, screws, and spring setup as it is. So hopefully Simon has got back to Pioneman (who is his OEM) to fix these in the K75?
Usually these are cool white LEDs with passable but not great tint as well.
There is a new Chinese footprint around, with a slightly bigger thermal pad than the standard 5050 footprint. It might push the thermal limits enough to allow for higher lumen output. I don’t know which leds Pioneman uses but you are right, these numbers are certainly exaggerated. For 3V*120A=360W you need at least 150lm/W efficiency for 54000 lumens which you don’t get at 15+A per led.
Take the familiar SFT40 6500K, which reaches an efficacy of 150lm/W at 2A. Even if you fill the 25mm^2 footprint completely with the LES, you would hit the same efficacy at (25mm^2)/(4mm^2)*2A = 12.5A, short of 15A per emitter. This also does not account for thermal saturation of a high LES/footprint ratio.
The functional logic is as follows:
Click the tail button to turn the machine on and off.
Click: shift mode (4th gear: 1a5a, 10a, 15a)
Double-click: extremely bright (direct drive) (this gear is not memorized)
2, 3, 4 Click to return to the brightness before turning on (such as off state, that is, after clicking, it is turned off).
1-2-3-4 is constant current gear, and extremely bright is direct drive.
So it does say the lower modes are regulated, and only turbo is FET. I wonder if this is essentially just Simon’s buck+FET driver or if it is a new modified version of it?
The description does seem confusing in that I can’t tell if they are describing hold-for-off like previous Pioneman UI or if they have altered that as well? They describe “click” to shift gears and “click” to turn off.
Also makes me wonder if the driver, if modified, solves the issue with the Convoy driver that their is a chip underneath where the 46950 spring needs to go… So many questions!
I haven’t noticed any LEDs lighting up when it’s off, but I am also in the habit of unscrewing the tailcap a quarter turn when I put the light to sleep in case of parasitic draw… Also after modding it I wasn’t sure if I caused shorts or not, but it hasn’t made smoke, fire, or explosions yet, I promise (which amazes me)!
I will also add, I have a 3x21C (which is K75 equiv) with LHP531 4000ks, and I have the A10 with those LHP531 4000ks, and I think the 3x21C is clearly a better light. A10 has hold-for-off UI with no moonlight, requires super-high-current button-tops (or at least have to use Convoy button-top adapters), and is just a pretty tall light. It is much floodier than 3x21C, and by that puts out more total lumens. The 3x21C is much throwier, while still being quite floody, more mass for sustain, is way more flexible about batteries, better new Convoy UI with momentary turbo, etc.
Excellent analysis. The A10 feels more like a curiosity rather than a usable tool, compared to the 3x21C. Much too floody for the battery and heatsinking capacity, so even reaching moderate distance requires disproportionate power draw and heat production. Of course, there’s also the UI issues you mentioned.
For some reason this bothers me more than anything else UI wise. Unfortunately still in all Nightwatchs.
Actually now that I think about it, something else bothers me more, hold-for-on, but of course. Oh and number 3 on the hate list, from who else but Nightwatch, push button of flashlight to start USB-C charging. Why… why?
For some reason the LED name already sounded (vaguely) familiar, but I couldn’t exactly ‘put my finger on it’ and searching for the way Pioneman had listed it (“N5165++”) didn’t gave any useful results.
The price is just too high, certainly in comparison to buying a 3X21C directly from Convoy, just to buy a K75 with this LED/driver out of curiousity. It’s a shame that (as far as I’m aware?) Pioneman doesn’t have an own website with better prices than on AE.
The brand is already a bit more expensive than Convoy (in general) and when you compare it to the prices when buying from SImon/Convoy directly, the price difference really becomes pretty big.
