Serious issue with the Wurkkos FC13 powerbank function, proposed solutions

[dmenezes]

So, yesterday I was at the end of a longish hike and my phone battery died.

I tried to use my FC13 to charge it up but it didn’t work: the phone started charging, then started discharging (!) and died again. I tried it 2 or 3 times more with the same result. If I didn’t carry my Fenix ARE-D1 charger/powerbank in my backpack, I would have been really SoL.

Observing it attently, I was able to determine the cause: the FC13 was switching modes from powerbank to charger (where it drains power from the USB port instead of supplying it) all by itself, and as my Android phone is capable of supplying power too, it was doing that and draining its battery to death

This really limits the usefulness (not to mention the safety) of using the FC13 as a powerbank with any device that’s also capable of supplying power such as most modern phones.

And worse, as the powerbank/charger function is handled by separate electronics, totally disconnected from the main MCU and therefore outside Anduril’s control, it’s not something that can be fixed by simply adding new funcionality to the Anduril code.

I see two possible solutions:

1. connect the charging circuit to one of the AT1616 GPIO pins so Anduril can control it (very simply: if the port is in logical low state the charger circuit will be locked to charge mode, if in high state to powerbank mode, and in high-Z state then would not be locked and would operate just like today by trying to automatically determine the mode). This of course depends on the charging circuit having a pin to control its mode, and the AT1616 having a free GPIO pin to connect it to.

2. change the charging circuit so it checks whether the flashlight LED is drawing power: if it is, then lock into powerbank mode. This would allow the user to avoid this issue by just turning on the light, and it could be with very low brightness so as to avoid spending energy unnecessarily.

EDIT: another solution is to, instead of a C-to-C cable, would be to use a C-to-A cable and then a A-to-C adapter to connect the FC13 to the phone. This has not been tested yet, but as it would kill any C-specific charging protocol between the devices, it ought to work. This was suggested by @roostre in a comment down below.

@Wurkkos_Terry could you check that with your engineers?

Comments from the fine folks here that understand more about Anduril and flashlight electronics than me are also very welcome (@ToyKeeper, @wolfgirl42, @SammysHP, @gchart, @thefreeman among others and in no particular order).

[thefreeman]

USB-C charging is kind of confusing, especially when both devices are dual role.
I don’t know which charger IC the FC13 use, but most lights with reverse charging use the IP5310, it’s a standalone charger IC and it has no pin for enabling reverse charging, it just detect if the device is sink or source. Supposedly we can control that on a smartphone but that seems to seldom work.

Manual control from the Anduril UI could be a good solution, although if the IC is set as source (reverse charging) when the light is on then the it wont be able to be charged during use, which is a propable use case. Maybe a special series of clicks with a special reverse charge AUX patern as feedback, but the UI is becoming increasingly saturated.
Another concern is that different charger ICs might not be controlled the same way, meaning special code for different ICs.

[Lumenizator (Matheus)]

You also could try to change the USB function in your smartphone:

Go to Config.
Go to About Phone.
Go to software information
Tap Build number until it reads Developer Options.
Open Developer Options, just below the “About phone”
Under Debugging Menu Switch on Android Debugging.
Switch on Debugging Notify.
Plug in phone with charging USB into computer.
Scroll down to Select USB configuration.
Select MTP (Media Transfer Protocol) or other than “Charging”

[dmenezes]

Thanks @Lumenizator!

@Lumenizator

Go to Config.
Go to About Phone.
Go to software information
Tap Build number until it reads Developer Options.
Open Developer Options, just below the “About phone”

I already had Developer Options enabled, but thanks for the detailed wrap-up.

Under Debugging Menu Switch on Android Debugging.
Switch on Debugging Notify.

There’s no such thing on my phone; here’s everything that shows up when I search for “Debugging”:

And here’s everything that shows under “Debugging” (first option shown in the screenshot above):

Any ideas?

Plug in phone with charging USB into computer.
Scroll down to Select USB configuration.

You mean this notification, right?

If the above is what you meant, here’s what it shows:

Select MTP (Media Transfer Protocol) or other than “Charging”

As you can see, there’s no “Charging” option, and when connected to the flashlight the remaining options are not selectable anyway (they’re all greyed out).

Or did I misunderstand you in any of the above?

Maybe we just have different Android versions. Here I’m running LineageOS 18.1, based on Android Open Source Project version 11.

TIA for your further response.

[dmenezes]

Thank you @thefreeman for the detailed, thoughtful response!

@thefreeman

I don’t know which charger IC the FC13 use, but most lights with reverse charging use the IP5310

This is one more question for @Wurkkos_Terry, I guess, as I see no chips in the visible part of the PCB, and I don’t think I can manage to disassemble mine to look inside.

@thefreeman

Supposedly we can control that on a smartphone but that seems to seldom work.

I can confirm it does not work with mine. And anyway, the right place to fix this IMHO is in the flashlight, as it’s the one supplying the current and we can’t count on the other device anyway (as we’ve just seen).

@thefreeman

but the UI is becoming increasingly saturated.

As one of the people doing the saturation (I just took over 8C with my quick aux switch mod) I can heartily agree but I don’t think it’s a problem: options that a person doesn’t use can be easily ignored or even disabled at compile-time so they don’t even use any flash/RAM, and if the ones that a person does use ends up needing too many clicks, it’s a simple matter to remap them to whatever click sequence one desires (eg using @wolfgirl42 's awesome UI remapping funcionality).

[Lumenizator (Matheus)]

You did everything right, but as you said, there will be some differences between smartphone models…
I have found this article that maybe can help you:

How to Disable Reverse Charging on Android

As you already turned developer mode on, you are half way to try this.

[Oli]

There’s a lot of issues that could be going on and some you can attempt to figure out at home. What was the phone battery voltage at? What was the flashlight battery voltage at? There are apps you can put on the phone that will show you the voltage. Gsam battery is one that’s been around forever but there are plenty of others. On some phones it will show you how fast you’re charging (amps ) or depleting your battery while in use, and whether you’re hooked up to electric or a battery source. It cannot always figure that out though. Some phones just don’t want to charge with less than one amp coming in. I don’t know about the FC 13 but the FC 11 puts out (by memory) less than one amp and only about 4.75 -4.8 volts. And that’s with a fairly full battery. It’s been a few years since I was trying to play around with the FC 11 and the HD 15 to figure this stuff out and I seem to recall that even the order in which device you put the cord in first was relevant. I could get one of my phones to charge very slowly and the other phone would not even acknowledge the cord was plugged in.

[zoulas]

I think you have more of a compatability issue. It seems like your phone and light were stuck in a loop trying to do the same thing.

You shold not rely on your flashlight to charge your phone. Get a bona-fide charge station from Anker or one of those brands and be done with it.

Seriously, you could have been in a life threatening situation with a dead phone. Not worth it.

I have an Anker charging station and it will charge my phone from 0–>100 4x before it needs to be charged.

[TIFisher]

I agree with zoulas. There are too many variables to rely on a $25 flashlight as an external power source. Yes, the manufacturers published claims should be true, but we all know to be suspect until objective verifiable sources have tested those claims to be legitimate. I guess the argument could be made that even if the torch provides a finite amount of charging for external devices, it qualifies as as a “reverse charging” capable unit. The problem is, mfr’s never quantify the extent of that capability. The end user needs to be cognizant of this, and plan accordingly.
I have several lights that make the same claim. Fortunately, I have never been pressed to put those claims to the test. Likewise, I have dedicated external power supplies I have used to provide rechargeable capabilities that worked as required.
Bottom line is, if forced to rely on a flashlight with reverse charger capabilities, I’ll use it…when other options fail, but I wouldn’t rely on it unless it was verified to produce as advertised.
Again, fortunately, it has never been a “life or death” situation. Never will.

[roostre]

@dmenezes

I see two possible solutions:

Until this issue is resolved by the manufacturers, you can force the direction of charge (but you will not be able to use any USB-C fast charging protocols) by using a USB-C to female USB-A adapter and plugging the USB-C end of the adapter into the device that you want to supply the power.

Click on this text for details about an Adapter available from AmazonUS:

Then use a cable plugged into the USB-A end of the adapter whose other end has the correct type of connector for the device being charged and some cables include adapters which allow you to charge devices that have micro-USB, Apple Lightning, or USB-C ports.

Click on this text for details about a Cable available from AmazonUS:

The adapter and cable can also be used to charge flashlights that have USB-C ports, but do not adhere to the USB standard and cannot be charged using a normal USB-C to USB-C cable, but even with the adapter and cable there will still be some instances where flashlights which do not adhere to the USB standard cannot be used as a power source to charge certain devices, so be sure to test your particular desired implementations.

[dmenezes]

Thanks for the great comment @Oli, responding below.

@Oli

What was the phone battery voltage at?

Not sure as I didn’t had time to run BatteryBotPro (the opensource Android app I use for everything battery-related), but I would bet it was very near minimum, as the Android battery percentage indicator (in the notifier bar) had just showed 1%.

Now that you mention it, the times I recharged my phone with the TS13 and the former’s battery was at 15% or higher, I didn’t have (or at least didn’t notice) this issue.

There are apps you can put on the phone that will show you the voltage. Gsam battery is one that’s been around forever but there are plenty of others. On some phones it will show you how fast you’re charging (amps ) or depleting your battery while in use, and whether you’re hooked up to electric or a battery source. It cannot always figure that out though.

BatteryBot Pro does all that and is opensource to boot. But thanks for pointing out GSAM Battery,

Some phones just don’t want to charge with less than one amp coming in

Not the case here, my phone will charge even with a meager 0.5A (albeit very very slowly).

I don’t know about the FC 13 but the FC 11 puts out (by memory) less than one amp and only about 4.75 -4.8 volts.

I’ve checked that with my FC13 and it can supply nearly 2.0A, not sure about the voltage as BatteryBotPro doesn’t show the USB port voltage (only the battery) but must be close to 5V or else my phone wouldn’t recognize it.

I seem to recall that even the order in which device you put the cord in first was relevant.

Will check that next time.

[dmenezes]

@zoulas

I think you have more of a compatability issue. It seems like your phone and light were stuck in a loop trying to do the same thing.

My thoughts exactly.

You shold not rely on your flashlight to charge your phone.
Get a bona-fide charge station from Anker or one of those brands and be done with it.

I’ve a couple of them, but they don’t work with batteries, only on AC or 12VDC so can’t be used except at home.

And if by “charge station” you meant a powerbank, IME the LiPo powerbanks just suck. I have had a ton of them and even the ones from the better brands are crap. My last one was from Anker! (their 20000mAh model) and it died in the middle of a hike and that less than 30 days after being purchased new. That’s when I purchased my Fenix ARE-D1 (which lived in my belt pouch along with a couple of 18650s) before my acquiring the FC13 for that purpose.

Seriously, you could have been in a life threatening situation with a dead phone. Not worth it.

Tell me all about it Seriously, you must have missed the part in my OP where I mentioned I still carry my Fenix ARE-D1 in my backpack (along with another set of fully charged LG MJ1s).

I have an Anker charging station and it will charge my phone from 0–>100 4x before it needs to be charged.

You mean a powerbank (with a built-in LiPo battery), right? If so, see my experience with Anker powerbanks above.

The issue with these powerbanks is that, when their internal batteries go kaput, you don’t have any remedy but throwing them in the trash and getting another one – and Amazon won’t deliver me a new one when I’m in the middle of a day-long hike By carrying the FC13 in my belt purse plus a set of LG MJ1s plus the Fenix ARE-D1 with another set of batteries in my backpack, I have full redundancy both of chargers and batteries. But the FC13 must be made to work right – I don’t think it’s unrealistic to expect it to work in powerbank mode too, after all my Fenix ARE-D1 cost half of what it costs and is smaller than it is, and does an excellent job. But I would rather have the FC13 at hand (in my belt pouch) and the Fenix ARE-D1 in the backpack, than just the Fenix (he who has one has none, and all that).

[dmenezes]

@TIFisher

I agree with zoulas. There are too many variables to rely on a $25 flashlight as an external power source.

The FC13 actually costs $32, and that is more than double the price of the excellent Fenix ARE-D1 charger/powerbank (which cost me $15). If the Fenix can do an excellent job both as charger and powerbank, I fail to see why it’s unreasonable to expect the FC13 to do just the powerbank part right along with being a flashlight (I don’t care about the charger part).

Yes, the manufacturers published claims should be true, but we all know to be suspect until objective verifiable sources have tested those claims to be legitimate.

I checked a few FC13 reviews before buying and they did test the powerbank function and didn’t report finding anything wrong.

And I’ve been testing it too – it was only this time that it didn’t work, and this was maybe related to the fact that the phone battery was very near empty when I plugged it into the FC13 (see my response to @Oli right above).

Again, fortunately, it has never been a “life or death” situation. Never will.

Agreed. That’s why I carry my Fenix ARE-D1 and another set of LG MJ1s in my backpack (he who has two has one). But carrying the FC13 in my belt pouch as a backup light and main powerbank is much more practical and handier.

[dmenezes]

Hi @roostre, thanks for the detailed response full of actually useful suggestions! Much appreciated!

@roostre

Until this issue is resolved by the manufacturers

My point exactly. Still waiting for a response from @Wurkkos_Terry, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect a great manufacturer as Wurkkos to make devices that actually work as advertised, and to fix them when they don’t.

you can force the direction of charge […] by using a USB-C to female USB-A adapter and plugging the USB-C end of the adapter into the device that you want to supply the power.
Click on this text for details about an Adapter available from AmazonUS:

I have an adapter exactly like that and tried it already, but it didn’t change anything. Will try and get an Anker as mine is from an unknown brand.

What I’m using right now is an USB-C to C cable I purchased from Wurkkos along with the FC13 (this one) along with this adapter bought at amazon (if/when I need to charge the battery in the FC13 from a USB-A port like when I’m back at my car but still away from home).

The problem I reported was with just the aforementioned cable (of course) between the FC13 and the phone.

(but you will not be able to use any USB-C fast charging protocols)

This is not a problem, the 2.0A x 5V = 10W that’s provided by the plain old USB standard is more than enough for me.

Then use a cable plugged into the USB-A end of the adapter whose other end has the correct type of connector for the device being charged and some cables include adapters which allow you to charge devices that have micro-USB, Apple Lightning, or USB-C ports.
Click on this text for details about a Cable available from AmazonUS:

I have a cable exactly like this (USB A to MicroUSB plus microUSB to USBC adapter) which I carry with my Fenix ARE-D1. Will try with it and the other adapter mentioned above.

But again I agree with you, the proper solution is for the flashlight manufacturer (Wurkkos) to fix it at the source. And implementing either of my suggestions would do it.

[ToyKeeper]

@dmenezes

The issue with these powerbanks is that, when their internal batteries go kaput, you don’t have any remedy but throwing them in the trash and getting another one

True. I’m not a fan of powerbanks with non-replaceable batteries. OTOH, things like the Xtar PB2S exist.

… though if I can get a nice light and it also works as a charger and powerbank, that’s even better.

[dmenezes]

@ToyKeeper

True. I’m not a fan of powerbanks with non-replaceable batteries.

My point exactly, thanks for posting your opinion (I love it when people obviously smarter than me actually agree with me )

OTOH, things like the Xtar PB2S exist.

Yeah, I considered the PB2S but at the time I saw reports it had issues (with actually being able to supply 2A IIRC). And it’s not quite as pocketable as the Fenix ARE-D1 which was important for me at the time as it was initially purchased to live in my belt pouch.

… though if I can get a nice light and it also works as a charger and powerbank, that’s even better.

Exactly! And I see no reason the FC13 shouldn’t – apart from this issue I reported in my OP and perhaps being a bit less efficient than the Fenix, it already works quite well as a powerbank.

[darosk]

I’ve been in the market for a flashlight model that serves as a secondary battery. I actually already EDC a PB2S as my powerbank (a bit thicker than some modern PB’s but I like being able to use my 21700’s) and so this light I’m looking for would serve actually as secondary battery that happens to work as a (hopefully) decent flashlight. Two is one, etc etc.

So I have been waiting for more longer-term reviews and reports like OP’s. Hopefully Wurkkos can provide some feedback.

[dmenezes]

@darosk

Hopefully Wurkkos can provide some feedback.

+1 to that. I just emailed their support too – if I get an answer via email instead of here, I will post it here too.

[zoulas]

Power banks are somewhat of an exception when it comes to non removable batteries. Mine is a 30k mah Anker. Had it for 5 years. Works like the day I bought it for $20 on Slickdeals.

It would be completely pointless for it to have removable batteries.

No to mention I often carry it in pocket while using my phone connected to USB. So in that case the removable battery type would either not be possible or be too dangerous.

[ToyKeeper]

@darosk

So I have been waiting for more longer-term reviews and reports

I have a FC13, and I think it’s pretty decent.

Pro:

• Very practical overall design, similar to ZL SC64 or Olight S2R
• Single emitter in a reflector makes a nearly ideal beam shape for general-purpose use
• Colorful button which feels good to use and serves useful functions
• Reasonably small host with good ergonomics
• Built in charging and reverse charging
• Open-source firmware, attiny1616 MCU, and easy to reflash
• Goes from ~0.05 lm to 2000+ lm
• Low price for its class

Con:

• No great emitter choices: XHP50.2 makes kind of an ugly green rainbowy too-floody beam, and SFT40 is only cool white. I went with SFT40 as the better of the two options.
• Driver is a simple FET+1, so it burns off a lot of extra voltage as heat, max sustainable output is a bit low, and regulation isn’t very stable
• 2-way clip

The onboard charging makes the driver inefficiency less important, since it’s convenient to add some juice when it gets low.

Overall, I think it’s one of the best options for someone who wants to get their first (or only) enthusiast light. It’s pretty decent, it’s relatively inexpensive, and it’s a complete package which includes everything the user needs.