Snobbish behavior


I visit other flashlight forums, as I presume you all do. On one of the really big ones I become

more and more frustrated with the attitude you experience there.

Some admins acts as they are Gods: Removing posts, warning posters of being banned, redicule

some wellknown Chinese firms and their products.

Some (mostly american) posters are not much better. Some have a very snobbish behavior towards

lights not made in America. Some also warning others not to sell to customers outside USA, as if

we are all crooks and thieves.

I may be wrong but I take it that flashlight forums are for discussing flashligts no matter were they

are made. But some peoble seems to think that budget lights are all crap. I like this forum as here

you can debate the lights for what they are, not for where they are made.

Is it me or???

Clearly Profit Focussed is just that. If you don't want to be an unpaid helper of the money machine then there are better places. Quite a few of them actually. There is a hug amount of excellent information in there - but it is getting harder and harder to get to useful information in there as the search is a disaster and a lot of excellent content has been lost during various reorganisations of the board and its software.

I spent ages looking for some very relevant information from 2006 in a half remembered thread and gave up - many of the search links went to stuff since the last reorganisation and old content seems to be buried. Or just thrown away. That was for a truly ludicrous device - a 12D Mag with an 8" reflector which got a lot of comment in 2005 or 2006.

It is a pity the way the other place has gone really.

Good points Nautic, I also am personally annoyed by the same attitudes and overly-controlling policies that you mention. It's a good example of how we should NOT be, so let's try to learn from their mistakes and not repeat them.

I imagine a lot of North American manufacturing workers are still smarting from the loss of North American manufacturing jobs to Asia. As a result, they hate Asian products and their products with a vengeance. But, one really to has to face the reality: the global economy is here to stay in this present system. There have been a lot of junky products out of North America, and there have been a lot of junky products out of China. But these days, a lot of the most wildly popular products by respected companies are made in Asia, the iPhone being the most prominent example. And, whether they like it or not, most of the popular flashlight brands are made in China. See the following pages for Fenix, NiteCore, Solarforce, and Quark, and search for the word "China" within the page. Yet, the most hardened flashlight critic has to admit that those brands are, well, "shining" examples of exquisite engineering and manufacturing. In the same way, many of the budget flashlights that are consistently scorned on other forums actually come very close to the those name brands in quality, for a much better price. The real difference is that the budget lights don't try to hide the fact that they're made in China. And the price. So, to each his own, but I think that the budget lights fill an important niche in the market.

As far as the policies on other forums, I imagine that much of that nonsense is actually owing to the fools who have posted spam and caused so many problems on those forums, and they have adapted drastic policies against them. But there's no excuse for belittling and heavy-handedly modding legitimate members who just want to discuss flashlights. I personally am most annoyed by the feeling that they will try to label me as a promoter of some product if I refer to it too directly. Therefore when I post on those forums I have to say, "Hi, I wanted to get your opinion on the SomethingFire X-123, sold at a certain site that starts with the letter D". Here that won't happen. Please post direct links to anything relevant to flashlights, as long as it doesn't contain nasty images or illegal material, it's game here on BLF. I personally don't live in the USA at the moment, so I also find it offensive to suggest that anyone outside of the USA must be a thief or a crook. What a shame. And on a practical note, shipping is so expensive to where I live that I can't really buy from an American seller even I want to. I don't know how China does it, but they have shipped me many nice flashlights to a backwoods town in South America for the princely shipping cost of $0.00. That's the deal breaker for me.

So post away, thanks to everyone so far for the polite, respectful attitude and your insightful comments about budget flashlights. If there's any legitimate way to spread the word about BudgetLightForum then go for it. And if you have any comments to improve the site, please let me know!

They are victim of their own success. There are just so many threads built up over the years, that searching them sometimes just isn't useful (you're using Gooogle search, right? that helps anyway vs. the built-in search). I agree that sifting through the information can be very frustrating, but there is definitely great information there.

As for the anti-China bias, if you buy a light for $150, then you would feel like an idiot if someone else was buying a $20 light that was just as good. So they go to great lengths to point out the deficiencies of the budget lights. But there is big premium for quality, customer service, and middle men. Ultimately most of the LED's are from the same places. In their defense, they have made a decision to pay that premium; they think that is the right decision for them; and they feel it is the right decision for others. That's all advice is. Also, I think a lot of flashlight people in the US are also big into guns, so there are some extreme conservatives and part of that is a pro-USA, anti-foreign mentality. It isn't that offensive in a US-only discussion area, but is not going to sit well in an international discussion area. Their moderators do try to shut down bashing after a certain point.

This morning I was reading a post where a guy in their budget forum said he wanted a AAA light from DealExtreme and named two models he was looking at but said he would consider others. The first two responses suggested more expensive lights not available on DealExtreme that would cost even more if shipped outside the USA. Responses like that ignore what the guy wanted and seem ignorant of the hassles of getting iTP's and Maratec's outside the US. Even though I like those lights, the answers aren't helpful by themselves.

Hmm, yes, you're right about customer service. That is admittedly a major deficiency of the budget lights. I used to have a Maglite, and if I remember correctly they had a toll-free customer service hotline. But that obviously costs, even if it's a foreign worker.

Sometimes the expensive stuff isn't any better on support. A lot of the silly expensive custom stuff comes from 1 person outfits. Who may, or may not, be responsive and helpful

A story from a previous life 30 years ago when I sold cameras. A rather famous photographer was looking for a Pentax 6x7 a hideously expensive and truly wonderful camera - probably would cost $9000 at todays prices so not a piece of cheap junk. He already had six of them. What did he want with another one? (A strange thing for me to say since I was on commission, but I actually wanted to know why he had so many of the things)

So that one of the (multiple expletives deleted) things would be working when he needed it to. They did give good results but they were about as reliable as a 40 year old Trabant.

Customer service done right is usually one of the first casualties of "efficiency" drives where the quarterly financials are all that matter - or in other words most public companies.

I imagine the DX's of this world are making good money or there wouldn't be so many of them. Odd that there's so much competition in one of the world's most tightly regulated economies.

Anyway, off to collect the hound from her haircut. I may add that the haircut will cost about the same as my last 5 lights. Couldn't afford doggie haircuts and expensive lights.

I can assure you that this forum so far is not like that.......Im sure with more members things will change. I am enjoying my stay here and it has been a pleasure to ask something and not be ridiculed for my question. Im just glad that there is truly a forum that we all can go and chat about lights.Sealed

Thank You for all comments in this thread. Im happy that im not alone with my opinion.

Lets hope they do something about it themselves, but im not optimistic on that one.

Since it has noticeably deteriorated in the last five years, I'm not optimistic either. People have been leaving for quite some time. Look at the number of registered users against the number of active users.

This is a huge pity as there is an enormous amount of good information in there, albeit pretty hard to find at times.

It just sucks that you cant even ask a question over there without some member, sometimes many to tell you to do a search.Yell Most of the time a member just wants a quick reply and not have to go through all that reading.

They get some stupid questions though, too. In the Batteries section today somebody asked if anode was positive or negative. They couldn't look that up online somewhere? Or use a dictionary? I didn't even read the post, just the subject line, so maybe there was more to it.

I just had to look it seems there was more to it. It seems that anode can go both ways + or -.

The anode is where oxidation happens - oxidation involves loss of electrons. Electrons are negatively charged. i.e., it is going positive. As far as I'm concerned, the anode is invariably positive.

Physicists may see it differently, I don't. Though, when you are charging a cell it is the other way round. In the real world this is irrelevant.

RG COLA - Reduction - Gain of electrons - Cathode - Oxidation - Loss of electrons - Anode

At least that's what they taught me 35 years ago.

I know what you mean....for me it means + as well......same as you thats what i was taught back in school. I find it funny that some of the members there get all analytical about some of the questions.

I didn't mean it wasn't a hard question, just that something like that is so easy to look up on Wikipedia. Like asking people what the capital of Madagascar is. Some things don't need to be asked on forums. Whatever, it was it has 18 responses now. Maybe it was a bad example.

I know what you mean......i really do. For me if i dont know something then you can count that i will look it up. There are a lot of questions on Eneloops and tons of info for the member to read if he or she used the search funtion.

On the negative comments made by some posters in regards to budget lights...

Human nature what it is people don't like it when they have paid $100 for a product in which you can get 90% of the performance at 10% or less the cost simular items pointed out to them. I would think this crosses boarders, it's not just a "*American" thing.
(No one like to look like a fool- You don't tell, or point out to the girl you're wanting to get "friends" (get lucky with) with that you just spent $100 for something you could have got for $10 or less...Telling her such will not endear her to you, you will NOT be having babies with her. Ditto on telling the wife...)

On some trying to discourge foreign sales. For persons who do not regularly ship overseas the cost of shipping from a monetary and time standpoint is most of the time more than the item is worth. Add to this rules and regulations differ from country to country when there HAS been a case of fraud, or attempted fraud that sellers are hesitaint to ship to certain countries.

(I've noticed on Ebay sellers not shipping to certain countries- I would assume they have looked at the "numbers' (Completed sales, vs how many times they've been ripped off, and or had problems with a transaction)

Is this fair if you live in XYZ banned country? On a personal level no, but on a business level it is.

Is is fair?

My insurance company charges me more than someone living 2 miles away due to "zip code"... They have looked at their claims and based their rates accordingly. Some areas are higher risk than others.

My local auto parts store used to have a store in a different zip code than "new" store... New store pricing is HIGHER by 15-20% on SAME parts from competior in old zip code just right down the road. Mgr told me price difference was due to them being in the "fancy" zip code (Where the rich people live... Like the rich people (have-to) change their own oil)...

Hi there WeAreNotAlone, welcome to BLF! I'd say your assessment is pretty much accurate. Personally, I'm the first to mention a flaw in a budget light, but I'm also the first to remember (without regrets) how little I payed for it. 8)

Moderation at CPF is really shit. I ended up getting banned over practically nothing. I work in the high tech industry (you know, the kind that's akin to, though higher end than the manufacture of LED emitters), and feel like I could contribute some decent knowledge at times, but I guess their policy is to ban first and ask questions later (what questions? exactly). They also delete posts because they don't like the message portrayed or just on a whim. Had I known this, I prolly wouldn't have bothered joining, and I don't suppose most smart people are prone to bowing to petty authority of that nature.

The egomania of the admin there is unreal. She actually believes it's her kingdom to rule along with her sychophants and an iron fist despite the fact that the value of any forum is in its membership.

Human nature what it is people don't like it when they have paid $100 for a product in which you can get 90% of the performance at 10% or less the cost simular items pointed out to them.

Another thing worth pointing out is that the "flashlight crowd" in the US often intersects with the jingoist survivalists or at least those with similar sentiments. You know, the kind who think jesus is coming and they need to stash up on ammo and "tactical" flashlights apparently to face the end times.

Anyway, off to collect the hound from her haircut. I may add that the haircut will cost about the same as my last 5 lights. Couldn't afford doggie haircuts and expensive lights.

Quality razorsharp blades are also very inexpensive from china.... just sayin'

Yes, but that would rely on my having far greater manual skills than I do. The dog really does prefer her ears still to be attached to her once the haircut is done... :)