ok, thanks
I would take 3 days of 0.01 lumens, over 30 days of 0.2 lumens
any number of days… just give us a real Firefly :+1:
I can just change batteries
I dont actually live in a cave
To be clear:
- 90 and 300 day runtimes aren’t even an option. Those are describing a 4x18650 light with 50 Watt-hours of energy inside… and this light is 1xAA with only about 2.5 Watt-hours.
- This light will not have the ultra-low sub-firefly levels of the RRT-01. Only an RRT-01 can do that.
The idea of being able to connect the led like a d4v2 aux led, i.e. through the avr pullup resistor, would be cool if it is doable. It would allow lighting the led with the processor completely asleep, if I understand correctly. However, I think you would not be able to adjust the firefly brightness in software. It could be 0.001 lumen or whatever you want, but you would set it by changing a resistor on the board, not through a UI.
thats OK, I dont need 0.001, Im only asking for 0.01
Isn't the entire point of making the SP10 pro enthusiasts? For everyone else the SP10S is just fine.
not sure why there is soooo much resistance to a Firefly OPTION
people dont have to use it if they dont want to…
I’m not quite sure what the appeal is of a Firefly mode where you can barely see the emitter compared to a moonlight mode.
A firefly that dim seems pretty useless. Probably not even enough to light the way from the bed to the toilet in the middle of the night. What do people use it for? Inspecting the surface of the LED for defects?
If I understand correctly, the main questions are:
- What would have to be sacrificed to add a firefly mode?
- How much work is involved?
- What is the benefit? Like, how many people actually want less than 0.1 lm?
- Is the cost worth the benefit?
I don’t know how feasible it is to add, but Sofirn tends to have a much more general audience than a lot of other BLF-related brands. They sell quite a bit to regular folks on Amazon, for example. So it needs to ship in a configuration which is suitable for that market.
If the hardware can do it, and if we can get flashing adapters made, what about adding super-low levels in a special aftermarket firmware?
I’m not obsessiing over the 0.01lm concept but I do generally like and support the idea if it doesn’t impose too many other constraints on the flashlight. Back in CPF’s glory days (admittedly before my time), one of the favorite lights there was the CMG Infinity, which had a 5mm led run at ~ 10 mA, which was about 1 lumen for the white led version. I have several Infinities and found that covering it 90% with my finger so that around 0.1 lumen got out still produced plenty of light for navigating a dark room. I don’t know about 0.01lm and I think it would be interesting to try some experiments at that level. I’d even try 0.001 lm.
Anyway, from my perspective, it’s of some interest whether the SP10 Pro hardware can support super low levels; but if so, it’s fine with me to have to reflash the software to reach them.
Based on old CPF discussions, these very low modes might be of most interest with a cyan led (505nm) rather than a white one. That’s the wavelength where the eye has the most sensitivity, among other things.
Jon_Slider, the light you really want might be a Rigel Skylite. I might someday DIY something like it, with a cyan led.
@ToyKeeper
Somewhat related question:
How is the ramp floor actually calculated? Is level 1 1/150th (0.6667%) of max brightness or max draw?
ok
sorry I mentioned it, and explained it, and justified it, and quantified it
and still its like… no… we dont need no stinking Firefly
ok… really sorry I asked
I’ve been improving Anduril’s options for low-light and low-power modes, like here for example… but I don’t know what will be feasible to do on this particular light.
If it can be done without sacrificing anything important, it probably will be. But I don’t know yet if it can… and I’m not deeply involved in this project, so it’s not up to me.
About the RRT-01 though, someone was asking me what the fuss is about, so I tried to explain it to them… and they didn’t really “get” it, so I took some pictures.
jon_slider knows all about this, but for everyone else…
The RRT-01 is a very unusual light, because it can go ridiculously low. I mean, if you think it’s dark outside at night, that’s nothing. If you think it’s dark in the middle of nowhere during a new moon, that’s still not dark enough to compare. It can go so low it’s literally below the ability of a human eye to see it.
Here is a picture showing a tritium vial next to a RRT-01. The tritium vial is 1mm wide, and about 6 years old, so it’s nowhere near as bright as it was when it was new. The RRT-01 is on, and making light:
Wait, you can’t see it? How about we crank up the image gamma. Here’s how it looks after some post-processing. The surface of the LED is darker than the reflection of the tritium vial… approximately the same brightness as the camera’s noise floor:
And that isn’t even the RRT-01’s lowest setting. It’s just the lowest level the camera could pick up.
To make it easier to see, I took another picture. This time, the RRT-01 has been turned up several levels, and I allowed some outside light into the room.
It’s still well below 0.01 lumens in this photo.
Runtime in this mode is about 1.5 days. I measured the power usage of the lowest visible level at 19.1 mA. It is frequently mistaken for being off at these low levels though, so it’s prone to emptying its battery without anyone ever knowing it was on. It’s easy to turn on by accident, so when I’ve carried mine, I ended up compulsively double-checking it to make sure it’s off.
I would love firefly capability, but it takes commitment from others of their skill and time. I really appreciate the work that has gone into this light so far. If this isn’t a feature any of the contributors is prepared to pursue, I’m happy regardless.
If the light does ship with programming pads, that also leaves open the possibility of accomplishing firefly via a future update.
I notice that page 183 of the t1616 data sheet says something about 16 bit PWM resolution, while I remember (maybe inaccurately) 10 bit resolution on the t1634 used in the d4v2. So maybe that can help with super low output, though it is pwm and might be flickery.
According to what I can follow in these last few pages, I don’t think anyone is being strictly anti-firefly. From what I understand with my limited grasp of the technical side of this type of thing, some are simply concerned that implementing such a mode may add more work/complication/difficulties for those directly involved - and others question if it’s really a feature that’s wanted or needed by the demographic of people who would buy this light.
Personally, I find ultra-sublumen levels to be a novelty more than anything, quite like aux lights. Cool and pretty, but ultimately I could take it or leave it. But that’s just me.
As TK mentioned, Sofirn’s intended demographic tends to be more general as opposed to enthusiasts who might really appreciate the ultra-dim mode. I think it’s just a matter of it being a little unlikely to happen, based on how Sofirn operates, especially if it adds more time or cost to the development of the light.
That said, Sofirn are showing that they do listen. This thread and others like it are evidence of that much. Who knows, maybe we will get those sublumens 
I don’t need it, but I would welcome the option if it was already there.
I find useful and I want have true Firefly mode.
Associated with a super warm LED 18k-20k in the middle of the night,when example you get out of bed to go in bath avoiding turn on lights house and consequently losing sleep.
For save battery firefly mode would be good on smaller cell like button or AAA.But there is electronic limitation,often the driver eat more current than Led.
This isn’t a problem,I can recharge or change battery
Is there any merit to a configurable moonlight mode?
For example, while in moonlight, click 9 times then keep holding on the 9th. Moonlight will flash once then begin ramping up. Release when you’re at the level you want to set. If you need to step down, do a click+hold and it’ll start ramping down. Release at desired level. Then, either click once to turn off and commit that level to memory, or wait 2 seconds for a single flash—indication of level committed to memory.
Yes, that’s the floor setting.
If you’ve ever had an infant, but needed to find something on the other side of the room at night, and you don’t want to wake it… you appreciate a firefly mode.
If you’ve ever been out in a tent , miles from anything, in the middle of the night, overcast skies, a pitch black that can only be beaten by a sensory deprivation chamber or a cave, you appreciate a firefly mode to find your pee bottle and not sear your own retinas.
If you’ve ever been in a power-out and want to leave a light for your loved ones you leave it on next to them in firefly mode so they can find it but it isn’t so bright that is bothers them. Whereas you, yourself may have a disciplined routine and system so that you know you can reach out and grab your light or whatever else you need night or day, light or no light, the kid may just sleep in their own room still because they appreciate the firefly mode.
Thanks TK for the insight.
PhantomPhoton, maybe you want a GITD tag on the light?
I also appreciate a sub-sublumen mode and am willing to pay extra for it, but I think doing it really properly would require extra analog stuff in the circuit that this light won’t be able to have. It’s something I hope the BLF hardware brain trust can keep in mind for a future light, but that may be the best we can hope for.
Also, as TK indicates, there is always a little bit of variation between individual leds, and between individual drivers. In the narrow region where the led is lit but only barely lit, those differences may make themselves noticed. So doing the best possible sublumens with pure software might require not just reflashing the light, but also sitting around tweaking the settings to get the specific light operating the way you want.
You could always put some kind of cap or filter over the bezel to let just a little bit of light through. A little circle of this stuff in a 3d-printed holder could do a good job. The 16x version would reduce 1 lumen to 1/16th, and two layers of it would give 1/256th.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32710187671.html
Something like this could be cut down to use as the holder, or even more awesome would be if it could be made in neutral density gray: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32991805908.html