Cree never made bulbs for flashlights. Their bulbs are for stationary fixtures and too big for flashlights. 
I discussed this in a similar thread. I have a Streamlight Stinger (issued). It’s heavy duty and very nice, but I find myself using my no-name Sipik SK98 clone about 20-1 over the SS. I paid IIRC $8.50 for the SK98. My first was a Sipik SK68 that is still one of my EDC lights (for about 3 years). Neither has failed to do what I’ve needed it to do, whether as an EDC or in the woods. I just purchased 10 Sipik SK68 clones on Amazon for $3.33 each. My example on the other thread was that if these only last for several years then I’ve got flashlights for the next several decades for less than $35. And if one breaks or gets lost then I’m out $4 and I grab the next one out of the pack/drawer.
Would I pay $250 for a 115 lumen light? No. Not when I’m getting around a 1000 lumen for less than $20 (I’ve got two Trustfire A8’s that are like a spot light and I paid about $18 for each). As I discussed in my thread, I had a hard time talking myself into a $70 flashlight…and ended up talking myself out of it. To date the most expensive flashlight I’ve purchased is $19.95. I see no reason to change at this point. For less than the price of the SF you’ve referenced I have a plethora of lights to choose from depending upon my needs.
It just would make my day if a U.S. company could create a brand to compete with Nitecore/Fenix/Olight, and yes even Sipik brand. This does not mean I think Surefire is a low quality brand. They just target a different consumer base. The ideal American flashlight company would compete with the premium Chinese brands. They would create a better product at the same price point or less.
They would have to make it in China (these likely exist already), or US workers need to work for peanuts.
We live in a period of transition, over time, all these cheap places will have cost of living rises, wage rises and it will equalise. Sadly, we will be long dead by then.
There is also the loss of jobs to automation and robot assembly. The USA auto industry includes manufacturing plants for most overseas makers who sell in the USA but all auto plants are incredibly automated so the actual man hours to build a car are minimized compared to what they used to be. The same for most manufacturers who still successfully manufacture in the USA.
That depends on how much of the construction is automated and how much is done by humans.
As more things become more automated the human capital needed diminishes, traditionally it meant humans had to do more specialized jobs, but as current economic events shows we don’t need nearly as many humans to keep the world running. Of course profit margins are expected to increase by higher percentages each year, so reduced production cost does not usually lower retail cost.
Beat me by two minutes and a better explanation :bigsmile:
I use my torches for work and need them to be reliable. That being said If I paid Surefire kinds of money for a torch I would be to anxious to use it. As it stands I tend to carry three torches on me as a matter of course anyway. I have a small one on my key chain. A Fenix AAA on a lanyard around my neck with my ID badge and a larger Thrunite which I use as a workhorse. To the average person those would be considered luxury expensive torches. Once you get into a hobby the price of things seems to take on a different perspective.
Some more expensive lights just look better... and feel better ;)
oh.. you are talking about Surefire?.. dont know. never had one
I wish there were statistics that compared the reliability and toughness of the various lights compared to Surefire. I have no idea how the results would come out, but certain professionals need the most rugged and reliable available regardless of cost. I am not sure what brand(s) that would be. The Maglites did well for many years.
For the average user Surefire and other top of the line lights are much more expensive than we need.
I realize that hobbyists tend to try various items, and that is as it should be. I am not that much of a flashaholic. Flashaholics even use Eneloops. :bigsmile: :bigsmile:
Jerry 0:)
That, here, is important. An overlooked reason as to why Chinese brands are on the rise - along with cheaper prices.
If you rest on your laurels, whatever the intrisinc merits of your products, you’ll eventually go bust.
Because with their innovative designs, competitors are attracting attention and new clients. They may have flimsy products at first, but as time goes, they increase the quality of their goods, which solidifies their reputation along with their customer base.
And if you look at lamps, well, you better hope Surefire has a groundbreaking idea or two in reserve; because everyone uses the same Cree or Nichia diodes, and everyone can have access to the same raw materials. What’s left to differentiate? Design, electronics, costs of production, quality control, after-sale service, retail network. Basically nothing daunting for a motivated Chinese company.
Lumineux;
So far as I am concerned none of the Chinese companies are competing in regards to service as long as we have to ship items back to China for repairs. For people in Europe it may be about as bad shipping to the USA for repair too but for Americans having to ship to China is slow, expensive and basically a PITA. To me companies should have to provide service in the regions they sell in such as N. America or Europe’s EEC.
I assume a chinese light has no warranty, shipping to china and hoping they are honest enough to fix properly or send you a new light is a lesson in blind faith.
Fortunately there are few parts that can go wrong, switches are cheap, circuitry is cheap, LEDs are cheap, and since i own more then one light and body failures are rare thats not a big problem (unless you only have one of a battery type, see my Starry Light thread).
Exactly. And the same goes for the retail distribution of their goods which isn’t exactly “local”.
But my point was that, if a Chinese company does intend to seriously compete with its foreign counterparts, creating proper customer services will be more than doable. And that’s when established companies like Surefire will have to seriously re-think their strategy - because by then, they will seriously feel the heat.
I don’t know about the Chinese but I’ll bet Surefire has some pretty big military/law enforcement contracts to keep them afloat.
Yes - for now.
Remember when Airbus won the KC-X tanker contract? Boeing felt the heat. Badly. And pushed the lobbying even harder to keep its government business.
Only the other US competitors would be a threat.
surprisingly honest 
Some chinese might not look at customer service for Americans as the Japanese do. If the Japanese produce a product that is poorly made they lose face and self respect . Our first car was a 1989 Toyota Tercel EZ edition purchased new. At the end of its operating life of 17 years. The low oil light burned out. We drove the car by accident with no oil twice and it did not hurt it at all. The timing chain broke. That is what caused its demise. We had a cold war with the Chinese for many years. Now we have a economic battle with them. There is still much mistrust and suspicion between both countries. I think many young Americans do not understand that or care. We as Americans have to treat the Chinese with respect and expect them to behave the same toward us.
A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, japanese cars in the 60s and 70s were junk, improved quality was a marketing ploy (which incidentally works well with their culture), and a successful ploy.
You should always treat everyone with respect, however only those who choose to return it will, you may have to give respect to start on teh right foot, but the other party has no legal obligation to return it. Chinese culture is not one that values quality or respect, their culture values copying and working toward short term gain since long term may change at the drop of the hat. One could argue they are much more pure capitalistic then americans, they value even shorter term gain over long term, they have no safety standards because unsafe, poisonous and poor quality are higher profit.