Don’t worry. You can fit a body in two garbage bags easy! 
I have to admit, I have trouble with the idea of giving up dino juice. Because you can fill the tank so quick. Even plugged into a supercharger they say it takes 20 min to charge to 50, 40 min for 80, 75 min for 100%. I know with the 200 mile range a normal commute doesn’t even close to requiring a recharge. Still I want faster! 120kW? Pfft, if the cable isn’t smoking I’m not happy. Or superchargers in every parking lot.
Reservations are now at 232k. Previously Tesla said the average price will probably come out to $42k, considering a mix of options. Which gives you just shy of $10B.
Musk: “Recommend ordering soon, as the wait time is growing rapidly.”
That’s quite rudely arrogant, and implies a level of snarky ignorance that’s becoming popular in this “Internet Age”.
“Progress”, you say? Did you forget the electric car has been tried already? In the 19th Century!!! You can call it a “vast right-wing conspiracy”, and continue to deny the Engineering and Free-Market forces that actually do work IRL. “Those who refuse to learn from history will be forever condemned to repeat it.”
When that notion failed, we came up with a much better solution: Internal Combustion. That was about the same time that John D. Rockefeller saved the whales (forgot that too, I’d wager)! Putting carts before horses has been tried too, with the same FUD, fallacy and lack of cost-effective results.
This perversion of the “NIMBY” concept, where it’s okay to pour as much crap in the air as needed, as long as it’s miles away from ’me’ at the power station, is just laboratory-grade Denial, even if it could be made to work IRL.
Around the world from any definition I’ve found for the word “progressive”.
Still, SWMBO & I get a good belly laugh at the current (Ford??) electric-car commercial where the guy drives up to a cute little charging station, plugs in, and walks away into the desert. Talk about your “Truth In Advertising”!!!
(Full disclosure: I WANT an electric car, but not as badly as I want to drive myself all the way back home.)
PS: The “amazing crash in solar panel prices” is most-likely due to the exposure (and subsequent removal) of “progressive” ruling-class payola. Hardly an “apples-to-apples” comparison, when some “invisible hand” holds a gun to my head to force me to pay off some crackpot bullshit artist’s grand delusion.
But y’all do keep trying, m’kay? We want you to succeed, but in a fair, unmolested “even playing field” of the Market; without force, fraud or abuse to maintain your beliefs.
When you get sick of trying to deal with stupidity with facts and logic you become more cynical. Interesting that getting sick of regressive stupidity is a legitimate reason to bash the progressive people. Perhaps you could just listen to reality next time instead of denying it and putting ideology over everything.
And are you going to listen when i explain what energy density is, the economics of crude oil, the finite nature of fossil fuels or the urgency of climate change?
Are you also going to listen to the reality of emission standards and why pollution controls were mandated and why the Chinese have such deadly pollution today even though its preventable?
You want to bash go ahead, no one is obliged to entertain you or listen to you, especially when you make no sense
I suppose automation and efficiency and subsidies and demand only factor into fossil fuel economics, not anything else :–5
Also throw in a some conspiracy nonsense and whack job theories :DRUNK:
How about we start by eliminating the hundreds of billions in subsidies fossil fuels get, and they can repay all they have gotten. We can use that money to conduct alternative energy research, buy solar panels and subsidize electric cars. Since its already being paid to fossil fuel companies and just being redirected this will cost zero dollars more then we are paying today. So i look forward to your support
This fellow is quite wise :nerd_face:
When you get sick of trying to deal with stupidity with facts and logic you become more cynical. Interesting that getting sick of regressive stupidity is a legitimate reason to bash the progressive people
No no, you did write about it.
I consider myself not a nay sayer but I cannot see the advantage of electric cars, the mileage is just too low to be really useful other then than environment and short trips at this time.
Then we saw the rise of electric cars in Amsterdam with that first Tesla little sportscar.
We lived in a good neighborhood and they were used. But as second car for inner city drives. Owners got a charging thing in front of the door, and LOL living in streets with 2 of 3 parking spaces in front of 1 building containing 1 house and 3 appartments you can see the math go horrible wrong if everybody would use electric cars. They added to the parking problem and about two electric cars per street were doable, and our short street had 400 houses. 0.5% of families could go electric (but OK not all drove, some elderly did not have car in our street. So besides the problem of getting all the power needed on top of powerdemands, space would really become an issue in a place like Amsterdam, the natural habitat of electric cars.
Then as far as benefits fo the environment, I once read a thouriug comparison between the Toyota Prius and BMW 1 series.
Toyota, made n Japan, parts had to get to Japen, total package then shipped worldwide
BMW made in Europe, parts had to get to Germany, total package was close to use (we are talking Europe here)
useage of fual, the Prius consumed 0.5L less per 100km.
Taking all the impacts on nature from mining, transporting, creating parts, shipping and useage ONLY after 19 years of same use the Prius would start to have a lower impact and ONLY IF the cells were not changed during that time.
So if I had to make the choice then to buy a new car I rather transport myself in a stylish BMW 1 then a b#tUgly Prius 
But that is not our choice, because our use of cars is buying one about 8 years old and replacing it when it needs a lot of repair usually when it is 14 of 15 years. We always had the need for a lot of space to get things and like the comfort of the very neat suspension of Citroens (also very usefull when getting heavy stuff, the car can be lowered to load stuff and put very high to unload and will always keep itself straight in comparison with other norma suspension where the back drops when putting 700kg above the rear axel)
Now living in Frane having to pick up people from the station we have a sevenseater Ctroen Grand Picasso, all seats can be folded to create a great space for things when we need to get bigger stuff. So even if electric proves to be better we have no interest in a sedan, roadster or anything less usefll then the thing we have now. But again, as I said earlier, if we have our waterwheel restored and produce electricity on site, yes a small electric car would be great for shopping close by and be less of a strain on the environment and absolutely worth to have a thourough look at when that time comes.
I would love to see technology progress and cars make a change to hydrogen, produced by wind and water and distributed via the excisting infrastructure of gas stations.
So you brought up the superiority of electric cars, and I like to be educated so please educate me!
Feel free to google this yourself, you did not understand that i meant to say i’m not going to post analyses, explanations or arguments with naysayers who won’t listen anyways, their minds are made up, facts be damned.
Progress cannot be stopped, only slowed down, good luck with that.
So are you actually willing to admit that this marketeering marvel wouldn’t be viable without 3rd-party manipulation a-la CFLs/Solyndra/GM, etc.?
“Tax credits” simply means that the rest of us will be forced to pay part of the “fair share” of Tesla owners. Very “progressive”!
Hmm, I think I came with facts (or well things I think to be facts) to explain why I see limited practical use.
And I specifically told you I am not a nay sayer, I would appreciate not being put in that box (but could be misinterpreting your post, no offence in that case)
And talking about slowing down progress, you picked up on the fact that I wrote about real future tech. useable hydrogen cars?
I've been waiting for this to surface for quite some time so I'm very excited to see it being produced in the next year or two. Thanks for sharing the specs, makes it even that much more desirable of a vehicle!
Uh…. So “progressive”, to you, means denying over a century of real-world experience? My dictionary must be broken. It still correctly defines “sophism” though…
AGREED!!! I concur and agree wholeheartedly and without reservation with this philosophy!! PLEASE let’s get our priest class to go along with this idea! And that right soon!
Nooooooo!! You were doing so well there! But it doesn’t help to start down the right track only to jump the rails at the first curve!
Why is it so hard to accept the concept of simply leaving (or returning in this case) “that money” in the hands of the people who earned it, to use in the manner that suits us best? Do you hate us so much you refuse to tolerate our choices?
The priest class has been demanding free food for themselves and their cronies since Ogg the Caveman was first frightened by the lightning. How is perpetuating that ancient lie “progressive”?
This fun thread sure went downhill. :SICK:
If Tesla and electric cars are the worst thing since satan then how about just sitting back and relaxing. You can watch them all fail horribly. Then laugh and party. 
I listened very carefully (at least enough to earn myself a 4.0 GPA) to my Electronics Engineering professors explain that and a lot of other interesting things, but I’d love to hear the “progressive” version!
The rest of what you say seems to be belief-based. And that belief seems to be based on arrogant hate. You’re welcome to all the hate you can swallow; I’ll pass. I’ve already tried to tell you I want an electric car. I just have Real-World transportation needs that can’t be met by “progressive” fads & fantasies, only reliable, effective solutions.
I’m totally in love with everything electric, no gas to handle, no change of oil, high efficiency,high torque, no engine warm up, no air or sound polution, no funding fat dictatorial emirs who fund terrorism.
I’ll certainly buy an electric car in the next 2 years max ( not a Tesla, probably a second generation Zoe i like their battery rental scheme), i’m also in the process of converting my ride on lawn mower to electric with a motenergy ME1004 (i’d love to have absolutly no gas in my garage), wanted to dictch my motorcycle for an electric one (a Zero FX) but they are still too expensive to justify for a recreationnal vehicle, i’m waiting for the big makers to enter the market and bring the prices down.
i am a petrolhead, but i testdrived a P85D for half an hour…
insane it is! (and i tried a E63 AMG a week before)
i think tesla is on the right way
i’ve been in a Model S but not driven one yet, the model 3 will also make for an interesting test drive i’m sure 
Zoe makes me think of an angry koala. :-((
Only insane? Did it not have ludicrous mode?
I would buy one if they can guarantee that the power pack would last for more than 15 years.
How many miles would it do between charging after 5 years?
I starts with a maximum range of more than 300km, if lithium-ion cells lose about 10% a year, it will be a lot less after 5 years…
If you have to replace the battery pack every 5 years, it will be a lot cheaper to use an “oldfashioned” petrol or diesel car…
Most laptop batteries won’t even last for 5 years, why would a car battery pack last longer (with more peak currents during accelleration, high ambient temperatures…).
And if everyone will buy an electric car, where do we get all the power to charge the batteries?
That’s why i like the Zoe’s battery rental scheme, when the battery reaches 75% of original capacity they put a new one in free of charge (well that’s included in the rents), no worries, and the car is much cheaper to buy in the first place (i had a ~ 15 000€ quote at the dealer)
As soon as their 2 gen 44kWh model comes out (2017 or 2018 apparently), i’m in, it’s not a looker but that’s always been last on my list when buying a car.
Hey, it’s angry koala look could potentially be used for fun. Silently sneak up and scare little children. }
It’s interesting how averse y’all seem to be in applying that philosophy to established, fact-based solutions.
A really old guy, a long time ago said: “Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.”
Another old guy said: “I, for my part, think that to tear down an error is to build up the truth that stands opposed to it.”
Just because something is new, doesn’t make it correct, no matter how well it’s marketed, how passionately it is believed, or how much force is required to institute it.