You are saying “in series” but the equivalent 3x 21700 configuration would be arranged in parallel, not in series.
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Well, that’s just stupid. If they had taken a standard battery, and tacked on the charging circuit, that would be annoying, especially if a standard 4680 ended up too short to work in their light, but getting a custom, lower-capacity battery so that their end product is 4680 is really unfortunate.
At $136, I’m not buying one, but it’s still exciting. If Convoy or Sofirn do anything similar but more affordable, I’ll probably try to convince myself that I need one.
ETA: Hit send too soon, but I meant to say, with the current scarcity of 4680 chargers, I can forgive a charger integrated with the battery, even though that’s a deal-breaker for 18650 or 21700 for me.
Ok. But being able to arrange 3x 21700 in either series or parallel is an advantage over 46800. 3x21700 in parallel could push 51A as well. Why is it not fair to compare 3x 21700, in series or parallel, to 1x 46800?
I guess I’m having a hard time understanding your point. Or rather, what it has to do with what I said in terms of comparing the batteries.
3x 21700 in series is not equivalent to a 46800.
3s 21700 does not provide 15Ah at 3.7V nominal, it provides ~5Ah at 11.1V nominal.
The equivalent arrangement of 21700 cells is 3x 21700 in parallel. This results in ~15Ah at 3.7V nominal.
If the Tesla cell is >15Ah, then 3x 21700 in parallel are still not equivalent, at least in terms of capacity.
I never said it was equivalent, I said it was comparable. I was speaking in terms of real world performance in a flashlight. Sorry I guess that wasnt clear? Again, is it not fair to compare them in terms of how they perform in a flashlight?
And I was talking about the lumintop 46800. Was that not clear either? Sorry.
I dunno. I am I crazy to compare 3x 21700 to this lumintop 46800?
I’m having a hard time understanding your point as it relates to what I said about the lumintop GT46. To try and be clear - my point is, I don’t see how the GT46 being 46800 with the lumintop cell is a significant advantage over 3x 21700, in whatever config.
I think he was just saying, like “fyi”, because you said earlier 3 21700s was 15000mah and right after that you said something about 3 in series. Idk
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I’m not inclined to do the geometric construction to show whether or not 3x 21mm dia circles will fit within a 46mm dia footprint so I’m not sure if the comparison is apt; I suspect it is not. I lied. I can be bothered. And it will work with slight plan margins.
I have however also performed this exercise with 4x 18650s relative to the 46800:
4x ~3.4Ah = 13.6Ah or >90% of Lumintop’s15Ah cell … just need a properly-dimensioned parallel adaptor.
Btw it’s definitely not a tesla 46800, not even Teslas have Tesla’s 4680s yet
You don’t think so?
Watch the Battery Day 2020 presentation and what they define a 4680 as being. Tesla went to great lengths to stress that their 4680 was not just a new form factor, its a whole new technology, a new chemistry. It’s not just a bigger 18650. They really hammered that point across. “The 4680 is a different chemistry than every battery out there”, etc
A 4680, according to Tesla, is tabless, structural, fully dry coated, completely cobalt free with a predominantly silicon anode and a nickel-rich cathode. That will give it more range, faster charging, higher capacity, lower costs, more power, less weight etc etc, and would be released with the upcoming cyber truck and in the model s and x plaid.
Cut to- the S and X plaid were released with 18650s, because Tesla hadnt figure out how to make the 4680 work yet. The cybertruck still isn’t out, Panasonic, Samsung, LG, and everyone else Tesla is trying to buy from haven’t figured out how to make the 4680 work yet.
The 46800 sized cells used in some of the Model Y’s have no silicon in the anode. Completely graphite anode. Even the old 2170s had silicon. New high capacity 21700s have silicon. No silicon in the “silicon anode” 4680. Cobalt. Lot’s of cobalt. More than the industry average, still figuring that out. Dry coating is half there, kind of, haven’t really figured out dry coating. Structural and tabless? Some of them, kinda. They had to make the cell walls a lot thicker and lost most of the weight savings tho. Which was the whole point of structural. So the result is they have lower range, lower energy density, and lower output than the old 21700 packs, and don’t meet tesla’s definition of what a 4680 is.
What a fantastic scam the ‘structural pack’ represents. Some weight savings (maybe) in exchange for largely eliminating the ability to service packs at the module level.
Ah. Your vague comment to me sounded like Tesla isn’t using 4680s yet, not (what I think you meant) 4680s aren’t living up to Tesla hype.
It’s a little more than not living up to the hype though. They didn’t make what they said they were making. It’s not a 4680.
Like, if Hank’s new M44 comes out and it looks nice but it doesn’t come close to its claimed lumens you’d say well the M44 doesn’t live up to the hype. But if the M44 comes out and its a maglite with M44 written on it you wouldn’t say well the M44 doesn’t live up to the hype you’d say wtf thats not an M44 that’s a maglite with M44 written on it. Where M44?
Not the best analogy but I tried to keep it flashlight related lmao
If the cell is 46mm in diameter by 80mm long, it’s a 4680.
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So a AA is a 14500?
Call it a 46800 or whatever you want, it’s not a tesla 4680
Think I will get 4 of them.
Maybe it’s 3 21700s in a tube with a charging port.
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It would be very interesting if that is the case, hopefully lumintop also will sell a 3x21700 battery carrier for it in case the original cell/pack dies.
I didn’t take measurements beyond verifying that it’s back of the napkin possible, but the margins for 3x 21mm circles inscribing within a 46mm circle were very tight. 20mm cells would have >1mm clearance to the 46mm boundary.