The 1000 Yard Club - extreme distance testing for throwers.

Ok this is how things work. (A lot also depends on colour, we are talking about the lighter coloured objects of course….close to white).

(1) If you really want to ID something under all conditions, regardless if you are in the city or suburbs or super dark desert/great outdoors conditions, go for 1 lux @ target.
ie Sq rt of 50000 lux @ 1m calculated = 223m. This is 1 lux @ target and over here in a very bright city (red zone to white zone in astronomy speak) you still get to see the hotspot without serious dark adaptation.

To get double the throw, you times 2 = 446m. This is 0.25 lux @ target (double distance, divide by 4).
In a bright city you are not going to to be able to see the hotspot clearly if you are the person holding the light. But if you move like 20 deg to the left or right of the light, you can see the hotspot painted white.

Double the distance again, we’d have 892 metres (the said 1100 yards in OP’s example). This is 0.0625 lux. This is a very low light level and those with light meters can try it out by ceiling bouncing a 3 lumen light in a 100% dark room and you’d still get like 0.1 lux (eg a room at night with heavy curtains drawn). I suppose if you are out in the dark, extremely clear dry air (eg PSI reading/pollution index below 10), at least 1hr of dark adapation, with someone standing like 10m from the light, you might have a chance of detecting the hostspot on a white surface.

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In astronomy, just with direct vision dark adaptation (scotopic vision) you can easily boost your eyes sensitivity by at least 1 magnitude in astronomy, that is approx 2.5 times intensity. Being in an absolutely dark place in the desert does not guarantee dark adapted, you need to be there preferably at least 1hr from the last light source, ie having a headlight to setup the camera/tripod and bring the lights out from the car with the car headlamp helping out does not count even if you are in the middle of the desert/mountains. That is just the initial part of dark adaptiona - the dilation of the pupils,only part of the night-time dark adapted vision process. This increase in retina sensitivity is due to the chemical buildup in rhodopsin, also known as “visual purple”. I guess with pupil dilation + dark adapted scotopic vision you can easily boost 4X, or double the distance.

So I guess in the most perfect of conditions, even with the unaided eye, you can detect 0.0625 lux with direct vision.
However at these low light levels where our eyes are using the rod cells, everything is either grey or black. There is no colour.

Just by moving a couple of metres to the left or right of the light really brings out the spot. You can try it. Doesn’t matter if there is moisture, over here in Singapore we are nearly always > 80% RH at night even if it has never rained. :slight_smile: (if it rained then it stays close to 90–100)

But i think of a higher importance is the transparency of the air, ie the dust particles in it. This probably affects some countries and cities. (slight haze). ie visibility, can you see city lights 30km away clearly (very transparent) or are you down to 10km (slightly hazy).

Slight thread hijack. Started with this skinny little 2xAA cell LED torch I took along on a rabbit shoot a few years back with mudgripz, and being new to this shooting bit was a bit slow and the truck spotlight was moving a bit too quickly for me so I just held the torch against the forestock with my hand and found it useful out to about 30m. Things have certainly moved on pretty quickly.

My favourite torch is still a WF-502B with a single mode R2, smooth reflector and aspheric lens. This lights up the business area of my scope perfectly out to well beyond shooting range with the 22lr (about 125 - 150m of good light range). I can put light on a hill to make out its ridgeline at about 400-450m on a good night. Also lasts about 4 hours on a charge and so obviously not putting out anywhere near the power that the ads claim; but this to me is an advantage.

All of these LED torches have made a huge difference to how we can hunt. In the past you would need one person to drive, another to operate a spotlight then a third to shoot. With these amazing torches each person can sneak about and shoot so we have the ability to shoot roughly three times the number of pests that we used to.

Yes we do have very clear air here. I can easily see our city lights from the alpine pass to the west, about 80km away. Though moisture droplets hanging in the air will refract the light straight back at you, along with the dust and pollen reflecting light back. I have observed many times seeing better from a few metres away to the side of the light source; for this reason I prefer a lower powered headlamp.

That clear air helps a lot. 80km visiblity of the city lights (doesn’t matter if it’s clear and bright) means that it really very clear. Pollen probably matters more. As long as it is not fog, it is alright.

As mentioned i can have clear but humid air here, but not above 95% RH so there really is not even the slightest fog.

Our hunting site where we conducted this test is in the low foothills of the Southern Alps in NZ. Beautifully clear air and zero light pollution - one village 15kms away. there was no wind so no particulate in the air - e.g. dust,pollen. Winter, cool evening, maybe 10 C degrees, 8pm, no moon.

As gadgetman confirms, in these conditions both torches achieved 1000 yds id on the house and shed - just visible to all 4 watchers. They were actually tested at 977 yds but would easily have made the extra 23 yards.

When these same lights are used in town you may get only a 200-300m sense of distance due to presence of so much environmental light. When I shine these lights over my back pastures near the city I note around a 500m range. But in the ideal test conditions above, real world measureable results were achieved out to a colossal 1000 yards. I fully understand Scaru’s 700m (775 yards) test in the mountains with an STL-V2 - its easily realistic.

And there are better torches that will extend considerably further. This is why I suggest top Olights and perhaps the Thrunite TN31 might well get 1 mile in these peak conditions.

Note: we did other tests a few months back while packing up after a shoot and in the same conditions a good little X2000, and gadgetman’s 501 aspherics etc had no trouble whatsoever lighting up buildings at 300m. That would have been in our summer - warm air.

In the right test conditions, everything changes and extreme distances become possible.

I think you are right suncoaster when you mention distance visibility in summer is less due to humidity, but greater in winter with clearer air.

And I note something else which anyone who lives near mountains will understand well. In some atmospheric conditions mountains (50 miles from where I live) appear very distant, almost invisible. But at other times in very clear air they will appear very close and show out in clear detail. Its an optical - almost magnification effect. Many will know what I mean here - a clear phenomenon but am not sure of its exact causes.

When testing these lights we shoot right beside the mountains in these very clear optical conditions - and the targets may well be much clearer - and distance clarity thus greater.

I would like to understand that magnification effect with mountains. Anyone know what I mean? Some days they look 30 miles away, some days 100 miles!

I agree with the suggestion powerful XML headlamps might in fact not be the best for hunting. I was holding the Maxtoch SN6X-2 close to my head the other night to experiment and the beam felt too bright, too close for good distance vision. I tend to agree the older lower powered 18650 batt DX headlamps are actually better for this purpose.

Well I will just say here in MO I don’t think for 1 sec my FandyFire is a 1000yd thrower. And I will leave it at that.

If those mountains were not in the way I could see a lot further than 80km. At times I can see ships approaching the harbour about another 15km further away. I know exactly what you mean about those mountains looking really close on a cold clear frosty morning, snow capped against the blue sky. 8)

Yep - its a very real phenomenon. A clear observer atmospheric/optical magnification effect, but I’m not sure of the science.

Wondering if somehow this affects the huge light distances we are getting by the mountains. May also just be down to straight atmospheric clarity and total absence of any other light interference out there.

Could be new NZ tourism venture for incurable BLF flashoholics……Come to Clean Green New Zealand and see your torch break the magic 1000!!

I am going to get a magnifying glass soon (or maybe i’ll order from ebay). You can do up a decent beam expander with that.

I’m definitely bringing some lights next time.

Queenstown in winter is great, and the Keas are funny bastards !
I’ve seen them drunk and rolling bottles off tables for fun.

Yep - 1.2 million Aussies come over each year now and huge number do the southern skifields each winter.

For alot of people it probably works out cheaper than going down to Perisher/Blu Mtns etc in Aus.

Early today I was white walling a mate’s Dereelight Night Master. IIRC it ’s the EZ900 model. It made the Solarforce Pro-1 with 2x18650’s look dull….