"TINY THROWERS" (and Flooders): NEW RELEASE 14500 Convoy T8 + SFT-25R 6500k & ❤ 5000k with BEAUTIFUL TINT ❤ vs. Wurkkos TS12/TS15 & Lumintop w/ CSLNM1.TG (small hotspot, crazy throw!). BONUS: Tiny Flooders reviewed too.

LED Flashlights – General Info 1 x AA / 1 x 14500 Flashlights
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In retrospect and thanks to this forum my flashlight education has gone through 4 phases:
Phase 1. Newbie tint snobs: top class CRI & R9 LEDs with great tint and great color rendition. My Convoy and Emisar lights with Nichia LEDs, and lately the Fireflies with super rosy FFL LEDs. discussed here
2. Phase 2 High CRI walk lights: Medium throw lights with wonderful color rendition like Convoy M21E with Getian GT-FC40 LED, and lately the premium quality Firefly X1L and E04Surge discussed here
3. Super Throwers: 800m plus throwers like Wurkkos TS30 and Firefly T9R. Throwy beams are always fun. I don’t need one, but I do want one, or ten. discussed here
4. Budget “Monster” Lights: Inexpensive 10k plus lumen lights, costing less than $100 because that’s all I could afford. Just want to experience the “wall of light” effect of these lights. discussed here

My latest adventure is with these 14500 +/- AA small lights. Just want to share some measurements and comparisons. I am not a pro reviewer and the equipment is amateur grade so please be patient and correct any errors as needed. The function comparison under real life use won’t start until later when it’s dark during my evening walk.

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【convoy】
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Measurements Preliminary - possible errors & subjected to change. Please expect several edits as I repeated measurement. Although most of my results tend to match pro reviews’ numbers, they are done with amateur-grade equipment, pls treat accordingly.

All testing with Vapcell H10 14500 Li ion . Except: Wurkkos TS12/TS15 tested with Wurkkos battery. NiMH AA used is Eneloop. Some numerical results are rounded.

Convoy T8 w/ SFT-25R 6500k
CCT Turbo 7000k Duv= minus 0.0007, Ra72@ Turbo, T-1 6320k Duv=0.0030, T-2 6040 Duv 0.0060, T-3 5790/0.0090
Output Turbo: 14500=1420 lm NiMH=300lm
When measured at shorter distance than 5m: Turbo 6500k, Duv=0.0020
ANSI Throw @ 30 seconds and 10m distance
14500=80Kcd 565m, Eneloop AA=19Kcd 275m

Convoy T8 w/ SFT-25R 5000k:
CCT 5000k Duv=0.0002 (CCT decreasing, Duv more positive w/ decreased output, lowest output T-3: ~4600k Duv ~0.0070)
Output Turbo: 14500=1270 lm
ANSI Throw @ 30 seconds and 10m distance
14500=79Kcd 560m (about same as T8 6500k)

Wurkkos T12 w/ SFT-25R 6500k & Wurkkos Batt (WARNING! High drain battery like Vapcell H10 will damage LED.):
CCT 6500k Duv 0.0020 Ra 70 @ Turbo (small change with output, not as much as Convoy lowest level approx. CCT 6200k Duv 0.0040)
Output: 1350 lm, PWM at every level
ANSI Throw @ 30 seconds and 10m distance
68 Kcd 520m

Wurkkos T15 w/ SFT-25R 6500k and Wurkkos Batt (WARNING! High drain battery like Vapcell H10 will damage LED.):
CCT 6300k Duv=0.0030 Ra 69 (10 m distance)
Repeat measurement with Web App, 4 m distance: T-1 6016 0.0040, T-2 6180 0.0040 T-3 6157 0.0040 Turbo 6182 0.0040
Output: 14500=800 lm w/ PWM at every level; NiMH=345lm
ANSI Throw @ 30 seconds and 10m distance
14500=45Kcd 420m, AA Eneloop=12Kcd 215m

Lumintop GTA 14500+aa OSRAM KW.CSLNM1.TG, Boost Driver:
CCT 6650k Duv=-0.0030 Ra 71 @ Turbo
Output: 14500=540 lm NiMH=200lm
ANSI Throw @ 30 seconds and 10m distance
145000 Vapcell: 104 Kcd 645 m (Vapcell H10), NiMH: 43Kcd, 415m

Lumintop GT Micro Copper OSRAM CSLNM1.1 (cool white)
FIRMWARE:Tom E’s open-source GPL NarsilM v1.3 adapted by Texas_Ace
DRIVER:Texas Avenger FET driver
Measurements using Vapcell H10 Batt (LED damage precaution: don’t use level Turbo of smooth ramping UI and top level of stepped ramping UI.)
CCT 6900k Duv -0.0020 Ra 71 @ Turbo
Output: 800 lm
ANSI Throw
175Kcd 830m :scream::scream: (spec 810m)

Lumintop GT Micro Brass with OSRAM CSLNM1.1
Same measurements as above, except I use this light to test batteries. A simple amateur-level test of Turbo turn-on brightness, using Lumintop GT Micro Brass with Osram CSLNM1.1 that has FET Turbo. Hopefully it reflects the high-drain current capability of the battery.
TURBO Turn-on Brightness
Older Safe Vapcell H10: 780-739-735
Not-yet-exploding Explosive Vapcell H10 #1: 775-761-758
Wurkkos OEM #1: 769-758-736
Skilhunt BL-113c High Drain 1300 mAh: 741-732-720
No name batt: 626-609-607

Skilhunt EC150 w/ SFT-25R 5500k
Output: 1470-370-130-25-Moonlight 2
CCT and Duv: Level Med-Low: 5260k Duv=0.0120, Med-Mid: 5330k Duv 0.0120, Med-Hi: 5380k Duv=0.0110, Turbo-Low: 5450k 0.0100, Turbo-Hi: 5500k Duv 0.0090
Throw: ANSI 200 m

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Summary/Impression

Convoy T8 w/ SFT-25R 6500k, 14500=Buck CC Max 5A, AA=Boost Max 0.5A; Green Reflection AR lens:

Convoy T8 w/ SFT-25R 5000k:

Wurkkos TS12 w/ SFT-25R 6500k:

Wurkkos TS15 w/ SFT-25R 6500k, AA=Boost, Purple AR

Lumintop GTA w/ OSRAM KW.CSLNM1.TG, AA=Boost, Purple AR:

Lumintop GT Micro Copper w/ OSRAM CSLNM1.1, Purple AR:

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Testing 1, 2, 3

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This Convoy T8 w/ SFT-25R 6500k is a brand new release from Convoy. So new that I couldn’t find any pro review’s measurements; making me a little nervous LOL, having no one to double check my results against. I chose T8 because among Simon’s T series lights, it has the largest and deepest reflector. Its intention is clear: a deep thrower.

From Convoy listing:
AA/NiMH Driver: Boost constant current, max current output 0.5A.
Li-ion Driver: Buck, max current output 5A
Output: 300 lm (AA/NiMH), 1200 lm (Li-ion)
Illumination Distance: 50-100 meters (what?!)

My prelim measurements (may change with repeated measuring) show a very impressive light, matching or beating the Wurkkos T12/T15 pair in most parameters. (TBF Wurkkos pair have a distinct advantage elsewhere: size.)

Output:
Li-ion Vapcell H10: 1420 lm measured w/ Texas Ace Lumen Tube
NiMH Eneloop: 300 lm
Throw: ANSI - measured at 30 sec and 10 meter.
Li-ion Vapcell H10: 80 Kcd 565m
NiMH Eneloop: 18.7 Kcd 273m

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Of my trio of SFT-25R tiny throwers, Convoy T8, Wurkkos T12, and Wurkkos T15, the Convoy has not been professionally reviewed (as far as I could tell my numbers above are “hot off the press” LOL), but T12 and T15 have. From 2 excellent/trustworthy sites:

Wurkkos T12 reviewed at Zeroair HERE.
Wurkkos T15 reviewed at 1Lumen HERE.

I should also add that the Convoy T8 has throw performance advantage because of its bigger size (bigger/deeper reflector, better heat dissipation), I still love my Wurkkos T12 and T15 for a couple reasons. They are both smaller, and being small is a big deal for me because otherwise I wouldn’t be exploring this class of small throwers. Also, they both have USB-C charging and side-switch, which for me are very important (strictly personal preference, no wrong or right).

OTOH the Convoy has an additional important advantage: its SFT-25R LED is available in both 6500k and 5000k, whereas for the Wurkkos pair it’s strictly the ~6500k LED only.

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Size of reflector & throw:
Of my three SFT25 lights, by eyeball estimate the Wurkkos TS15 has smallest reflector, and Wurkkos TS12 and Convoy T8 have same diameter, with T8’s being deeper. Perhaps not too surprisingly, throw distance increases in the same order as reflector size and depth.
Convoy T8 has the largest reflector in Convoy T series lights AFAIK, and its throw performance doesn’t disappoint.
Wurkkos TS15 trails in throw performance, but… for me being small counts a lot in this group, and just that small difference in the head diameter and length vs T8 makes a significance different in how it carries, how it feels in pocket.

AR lenses:
Convoy has green-reflection AR lens (makes Duv roughly 0.0020 points more negative), Wurkkos TS15 has purple-reflection lens, and TS12 has no AR coat. Another thumb up for Convoy.

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More negative compared to no AR, or compared to purple AR? I’ve found that green AR has no noticeable effect on duv compared to no AR, having much better anti-reflective performance than purple. Purple AR does make the light noticeably greener.

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It looks like our results are consistent. My results from a couple years ago here. At least with the lenses I tested, purple reflection AR lens makes Duv more positive by about 20 points (-0.0120 green vs -0.0100 purple). And NO difference from non AR to green AR.

djozz also tested here. Fairly amazingly (considering my amateur grade equipment, albeit experiment very carefully conducted), his result matches mine numerically and also shows 20 point difference. However, unlike our results, he found green AR also drops Duv vs non AR. I am think because not all coatings are the same, number of layers, how “strong” the coating, etc.

Of note, ALL of my eyeglasses have green reflection.

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Thank you for confirming and linking djozz’s measurements!

Very good point, even the purple AR’s I get from Convoy have different colors and intensities. The purple sample tested by djozz appears to be one of the better ones.

My green AR lenses from Convoy have barely visible reflections, indicating that the AR performance is very good. My glasses also have green AR, though some “blue blocking” lenses I’ve owned in the past had very strong blue AR and makes things look tea-colored.

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Thank you! For a parameter that is SO tricky to test (my notebook was filled w/ pages of x,y points from repeated runs), it’s fun/satisfying to see other people got the same result.

I hate Opple LM3 not calculating Duv automatically to this day. Knowing Duv instantly with each lens switch would have made life so much easier.

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Thanks for the measurements. The Convoy T8 is really impressive. Hopefully it’ll be available in a few fun colours soon. I’d much rather have a bright orange or blue flashlight than the same old black or tan.

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Agreed. @Simon_Mao fantastic light but more colors please. Personally I wouldn’t mind more lights with side-switch and USB-C charging either. :+1: :slightly_smiling_face:

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Outputs at turbo turn-on measured with Texas Ace Lumen Tube. The AA capable lights tend to have lower 14500 outputs (vs other lights with same/similar LED), except Convoy. To me this is another plus for T8.

NB re. battery for Wurkkos T12: I tried button top Vapcell 10 and the light wouldn’t turn-on. Looks like the Vapcell button top is a little longer than the Wurkkos button top that this light comes with. Checking the internet it seems this is a known incompatibility. All testing of T12 and T15 therefore done with Wurkkos 14500 batteries only.

Minor nit-picking point, only for academic interest: Wurkkos T12 would be higher had an anti AR lens been used, as in Convoy T8.

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Go big or go home. T8 with SFT42r, 10A driver: 587m.

IMG_7157
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Now that I have the picture of the lights above and basic measurement numbers posted, just like to add my opinions on a not so important part of the 5 lights: cosmetic.
TS15 is smallest and I still love it, but doesn’t look too hot and feel slippery in use. Those shallow grooves look kinda cheap.
TS12 is a beautiful light. I like deep cooling fins, whether functional or not LOL. TS12 has that rough look, like it’s a miniature version of the big boy TS30S Pro.
Convoy T8, ok, but any light this good and costs $18 is beautiful.

The Lumintop pair, OTOH, is like work of art to me. They are hard to find and thanks to someone here, I found them HERE at Illumn with big discount for the copper version of the GT Micro.
Lumintop GT Micro Cooper with CSLNM1. Beautiful light with 830 m throw :scream: albeit tiny hotspot vs SFT25R and a little too big for 14500. Wish I could find aluminum version.
Lumintop GTA Same as above. I love those deep cooling fins. Looks like a perfect miniaturzied big thrower. Only $35 and beautiful, if a little big for 145000 light. Illumn seems to be the only place that has this one, 5 copies left.

@Punga32 3600lm in T8? Looks like you’re having lots of fun there. :+1: :slightly_smiling_face: Nice work.

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Yesterday my second T8, this time with the 5000k LED arrived. After checking the numbers, today I’m ordering a second light with the same LED, in M21E host.

This @Simon_Mao 's batch has warmest CCT and most beautiful tint I’ve ever seen or measured for a throwy LED. Duv is fantastic especially for neutral-tint fan, 0.0002. 79 Kcd/560m. Not a trace of green to my eyes. What are you waiting for? Tint lottery is real LOL.

Pic shot in RAW @5000k. TS30S at Turbo-2 and Convoy T8 at Turbo -1, to show hotspot structure. Please don’t use pic to judge relative brightness. TS30S Pro vastly more powerful at max level.

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Does the 8 in the Convoy T8 refer to the same thing as the 8 in a Convoy C8? They’ve both got a reflector that’s bigger than the flashlight body and the proportions look roughly the same.

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T8 looks like C8 and rhymes with C8, seems a very natural choice of nomenclature.

You’ve really won the lottery! Previous batches consistently had a green center due to uneven phosphor deposition. Though I’m holding off on SFT25R in anticipation of W5050SQ5, which is 5050, which means (1) easier to center/focus, (2) lower Vf so sustainable turbo, and (3) better performance due to doubled footprint/heatsinking area. Availability in 4000K would be a bonus.

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Thanks. Yes I know I won a unicorn with this Convoy T8 - 5000k SFT-25R. Took it out last night and the beam was perfect, color rendition beautiful as expected. The stars are aligned LOL.

Personally I’ve long considered a warmish CCT thrower with non-green tint the holy grail. It’s here guys, get it before it’s gone & replaced by another SFT25 batch.