Trustfire X100 7000 lumen big host temperature testing (78 watts)

LED Flashlights – General Info
1

I was in discussion with another person whether a TR-J12 host weighing 1.2kg (Gearbest lists this as 1192g product weight, 1.5kg package weight) would be able to sustain 10k+ range lumens output for 30 mins (XHP 70.2, whatever), or when the batteries run out. I don’t have a TR-J20 to test and verify, but i do have a X100.

Trustfire X100 7 x XM-L T6
Weight with battery tube (no batteries) : 589g as measured. Websites list this as 940g, which should be the whole package weight with sling and bag
Size(mm):342 x 75(bezel)/35(body)

Not sure if the result is useful to anyone.

The light tested below is direct driven by varying the voltage from a PSU, trying to aim for 3.5A, the amperage always tries to slowly creep up during the run as the temperature rises.
78 watts power. No driver loss etc as it’s direct driven.

Also, for the first 7 minutes a small fan was aimed directly at it to simulate windy conditions in the real world. If it’s nearly calm, the results would be worse, of course.

Results
30.9 deg C at 0:00
55.3 deg C at 3 min
62.9 deg C at 5 min
67.5 deg C at 7 min (battery tube temperature = 49-52 deg C at the part where you’d grab it).

First an underexposed beam shot pic vs the BLF Q8 in Turbo with springs bypassed but “only” on Panasonic 18650GA

30.9 deg C at 0:00

55.3 deg C at 3 min

62.9 deg C at 5 min

67.5 deg C at 7 min

I took away the fan and see if it could hit 80 deg C. Yes, no problem at all. The current crept up also till 3.80A when i stopped varying the voltage to compensate. Got 182 deg C at the front end too (LEDs and aluminum light cup mix)
I terminated the test, didn’t want to push till 90-100 deg C.


2

I think if we were to continue testing, it should be able to hit comfortably > 70 deg C with active airflow cooling.

The head hit a max of 82 deg C when i took away the fan, terminated the test. 90 deg C should not be an issue, possibly 100 deg C too.

I was in discussion with another person whether a 1.3-1.5kg TR-J12 host would be able to sustain 10k+ range lumens output for 30 mins. :slight_smile:

3

You are using a PSU. How long does it last on (protected) batteries? Does it even get warm then?

4

Very interesting test. This however is only a bit over 1/3 the weight of the Tr-J12. The larger head with more surface area and more emitters in the tr-j12 will allow it to run more efficient and cooler.

5

Yep…PSU.

It lasts very long on batteries, simply because the driver is merely a 24 watter. :smiley: ie very much underdriven. But that’s very common/normal for these Trustfire/Ultrafire lights.

There are more powerful drivers, but i didn’t bother to buy those, or to resistor mod this stock driver.

Another bigger light, the TR-J20 12 x XM-L, the stock driver has got resistor mods documented, to bring that up to 60W power, MOSFETs not frying.

6

For sure we’d be able to scale up accordingly, so we have our results here with 7 x XM-L driven at 78W (somewhat inefficient, see Match’s output graph for the XM-L above) with 600g of mass and 75mm head.
If we were to come across a 1.2kg host with 90mm diameter head dimensions, we’d be able to extrapolate.

ie 7000 lumens for this (direct drive or modded high power driver), 12000 lumens for that.

Same scaling relationship for the surface area as well. The TR-J20 may very well have 2X more surface area in the head area.

The TR-J20 truly is bigger, but i don’t think the X100 is just 1/3rd the weight, more like 1/2 the weight.
X100 is listed as 940g weight on the online e-commerce sites. My own measurement is ~ 600g with 3S tube without the tailcap and 4S extender.

The TR-J20 has a 91mm head, this X100 has a 75mm head. The X100 has a 26650 tube, TR-J20 32650 tube, so the tube is comparatively heavier on the J20.

It’s most probably the product weight and the package weight thingy.
I suppose there could be some folks who measured the light, but i can’t google any results for it. Have you come across any results?

TR-J20
Product weight: 1.192 kg
Package weight: 1.5 kg
Product size (L x W x H): 9.1 x 4.5 x 34 cm (3.58 x 1.77 x 13.39 inches)
Package size (L x W x H): 10 x 6 x 36 cm

7

If we were to come across a 1.2kg host with 90mm diameter head dimensions, we’d be able to extrapolate. Even a 1.8kg host in terms of heatsinking, 3X of this Trustfire X100.

Similarly, we can more or less extrapolate (though inaccurately) the Ashai Rome Q3, 3 x 7070 chinese emitters 465g host light, that could be (1) underdriven or (2) efficiency is same as this. We do not know if those chinese emitters are 18W emitters or 30W emitters, no efficiency figures as well. That one has been measured to be approx 6500 lumens. Only thing is that i wanna get it to be cheaper, at around usd 41 (RMB 268). :smiley:

It’s not going to be laboratory accurate, all these are just ballpark figures to give folks an idea what to expect, should he need a light that is high in lumens and has enough heatsinking mass. I think head dissipation via air convection is similarly not going to be very efficient unless if we have active cooling or a good breeze over the head.

8

55.3 deg C at 3 minute mark for this 596g X100 (no batts), the performance seems to be like the same as my 400g + 202g = 602g Q8 with batteries.

I am going to measure the Q8 with the IR thermometer later. But i gotta use the same fan to cool the Q8 so as to make the comparison fair. (ugh, now perhaps i am regretting that i was using the fan earlier to do the X100 test, it’s an additional variable albeit a small one).

*55.3 deg C at 3 min mark for 600g host in my environment/temp for this 7000 lumen (78W) output, means 55.3 deg C at 3 min mark for 18000 lumens (234W) light, with a 1.8kg host?
Is it more or less ok to also deduce that it’s 55 deg C with a 600g host with a 18000-ish lumens 234W light, at 1 minute?*

9

Totally stock Sofirn Q8 with XP-L HI (top hotspot), in fact i have not even cleaned the contacts. :slight_smile:

Trustfure X100 @ 3.6 amps direct drive (bottom hotspot). Not too bad for a 2011 fugly design eh. The reflectors could be more optimised, there is quite a corona around the main hotspot, wasted lumens there.

10

I never trust Gearbest specs for weight. They are completely unreliable. Other websites list it higher. I did a quick search and found someone measured the TR-J20 at 3.26lbs (1479g).

The X100 has a 4x26650 battery tube whereas the TR-J20 has a 3x32650 battery tube so the weight of the battery tube should be the same. Let’s assume the battery tube weigh 200g, that means the weight of the head would be:

X100 head = 389g
TR-J20 head = 1279g

It is the mass in the head that makes all the difference in thermal performance. There is about 3.3x more mass in the TR-J20. The surface area of the TR-J20 is probably 2x that of the X100. So the thermal performance of the TR-J20 is probably 6.6x that of the X100.

The TR-J20 uses more emitters, which makes it more efficient.

For example, the ROT66 256g w/ 9x emitters can maintain 1,400 lumens, whereas the Convoy S2+ copper 170g w/ single emitter gets too hot to hold at 700 lumens after about 10 minutes.

I remember reading people were able to run the TR-J20 at 1x,xxx lumens indefinitely. Too difficult to search them up now.

11

Actually, the X100 head is not 389g.
I measured mine to be 485g. Anyway, not too far off i guess.
But alright, lets take it that the TR-J20 head is indeed 1279g in mass for a moment, 2.6X more than the X100 head. And surface area is 2 times as what you have mentioned.

Actually i just returned to the hobby and was wondering with all these new efficient emitters if we are now able to hit 10k lumens plus for a longer duration now. There is no need to be indefinite (4 x 18650s would go empty anyway :D). It could be 30 minutes as you previously mentioned, it could be even lesser. Just wanna find the “spot”, ie 10000 lumens 8 minutes, 1000g.

Well if the TR-J20 were to be running at 7000 lumens, then yes for sure the lumens efficiency is going to be better. But i believe the original point is whether or not a light could be doing 10k+ lumens for a good period of time, be it 30 minutes, indefinitely etc. If not, maybe we can shoot for lower durations, which is more practical.
I also have a quest, if practically possible, to find a good 10k+ lumens light which can operate for longer durations, be it 15 minutes, 30 minutes etc.

Yes the TR-J20 uses more emitters (12 x XM-L), but actually in this case it goes like this.
X100 = 7 x XM-L = 7000 lumens max driven (see Match’s output test in 1st post), 78W.
TR-J20 = 12 x XM-L= 12000 lumens max driven. 133W,
The “lumens efficiency” is the same, and wattage scales up accordingly.

Well I believe it could still be possible if the light is on a tailstand and it is outdoors in a cold sub-zero climate with some wind though. The light could start off at say 0 deg C with ambient at –15 deg C, and the temperature delta between the head and ambient would be larger, the convection heat dissipation would be better as well.

I measured 67 deg C at the head and close to 50 deg C for the handle at just 7 mins for the X100 (485g) for 7k lumens, and remember this is with a small fan blowing at it. Ambient was at 30 deg C (my country ughh!). At maybe around the 15th minute (I didn’t get the exact time stamp) I got 82 deg C for the head and still rising. This is only possible as i am running direct drive, no driver electronics to poof.

2.6X more mass and 2X more surface area. 1.7X higher wattage.

Impossible to handhold at 50 deg C without gloves. And probably starting to risk the driver electronics which is going to be operating much higher temps.

12

Of course that is with XM-Ls, literally nobody uses XM-Ls nowadays, except for chinese super budgetlights meant for the chinese domestic market.

But we also have the answer for today’s emitters.
Take 3pcs of BLF Q8, 400g each that’s 1.2kg mass, same as the X100. (just for info, with batteries this bumps it to 600g total weight, or 1.8kg for 3pcs)
4 x XP-L = 5000 lumens at 1250 lumens each emitter, 3 pcs give 15k lumens.

It’d hit thermal regulation and ramps down at the 3 minute mark.

It’s probably at this level with a 1.2kg (empty weight) light at 15k lumens with similar efficiency.

13

Anyway, just some measurements for my BLF Q8.
Steps down at around 2 mins 45 secs.
54 deg C head 43 deg body tube.

Extrapolating, that’d be 1200g and 15k lumens.

It’s actually starting to get uncomfortable to hold for more than 10 seconds actually, though not impossible to continue holding by enduring it, after step-down.


14

Or a Haikelite MT09R with triple 70.2s, 20k lumens thereabouts, 600g.

Steps down in approx 1 minute (not sure what temp is it programmed at). Lets say that the host is doubled and it’s 1.2kg that’d be 2 minutes thereabouts?

Cut the lumens by half, that extends to 4 minutes? All very rough figures of course, but we can get a decent idea on how it’s going to be.

15

The MT09R is an extremely bad example. Those three emitters are driven way beyond the specified operation range and the efficiency and heat output is extreme. Also the MT09R does not really have any fins so significantly less surface area. Maybe 1/3 to 1/4 the surface area of the TR-J20. If you run the emitters within the operation range, the efficiency is much higher and runs much cooler.

A better comparison would be the 9xLED of the ROT66. The head weighs 143.6g and can maintain 1,400 lumens at comfortable temps. Assuming the head of the TR-J20 weighs 1,300g (probably more after I weighed a few different battery tubes that weigh less than I thought), using your analogy it can sustain 12,674 lumens until the batteries run down. The DX80 is also a good comparison since it has alot of emitters and the head probably weighs about 700g would be my guess. The DX80 can sustain 7,000 lumens for 1hr 34mins or as long as the batteries can maintain voltage. Using your analogy, the TR-J20 would equate to at least 14,000 lumens of continuous output. Also both of these lights have no where near as much fins and surface area as the TR-J20. However, the driver in the TR-J20 is probably nowhere near as efficient as these two lights.

16

Another good example is the X80 and X80GT. Weighs only 330g. I guestimate 260g in the head, but can maintain 4000 lumens for 1.7 hours.

Extrapolating would yield 20,000 lumens continuous for 1,300g head. Again in reality it’s not an apple to apple comparison, but I do believe with the right drivers and emitters, it would not be difficult for the TR-J20 to sustain 10k+ lumens.

17

Actually we do not need to go the X80/GT route.

I did a search, think we already have the answer with the 70.2 and underdriven in the top dogs with Acebeam X70 and Imalent MS12. I am not sure if active cooling is needed for your said 30 mins duration, but i believe it’d have kicked in?

We’d definitely need a light equipped with 12 x XHP 70.2 (basically 48pcs of XP-Ls :open_mouth: ).
The X70 is 1.819kg with battery pack (prob around 1.4kg empty) and a 119mm head. (TR-J20 91mm for comparison, both are somewhat similar league i guess)
The MS12 is 1.740kg with battery pack and 129mm head.

6 watts would give you approx 1.1k lumens from each 70.2 at those drive levels.

18

Another problem is that these lights are also probably driven to very very hot levels, so hot that it’s practically unusable without a sling. In a review i saw, the X45 (4 x XHP 70.2) at 700g hitting thermal regulation at 167 deg C or 75 deg C at the head. That’s crazy. :open_mouth:
4 pcs of XHP 70.2 is actually underdriven at 12k lumens, we need to go with more emitters to increase efficiency.

The BLF Q8 is doing 55 deg C head and body at 43 deg C is already close to being too hot to hold.

But if we are just talking about whether its technically possible and driver electronics wise, it’s ok to jam in more emitters into the 91mm head. Even the batteries are going to be a bit sketchy with the head that hot without active cooling…

So for sure the emitter choice + number of emitters is going to be key points.

PS. Actually in terms of practical use, my father in law and his workers for their commercial use in plantations/birds nest inspection have been using HIDs for many years (since 2010), though those metal can HIDs are more like 4000-ish lumens. Able to sustain half an hour no issue. I am wondering if current LED technology can do it. It probably can, just at a price. :money_mouth_face:

19

This is 700g and 4 x 70.2, 14k lumens ie driven at just a bit under the max capable 17.1k lumens as per datasheet. Quite interesting review.

I am wondering if anybody has done measurements in their review with the 12 x 70.2 X70 and MS12.

Go to 7 min 40 seconds. 167 deg F (75 deg C) at 3.00 mins, then it kicked down.

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Gezuz, 540 usd for the Acebeam X70 and that’s on taobao. :innocent:

I am wondering if just for fun, getting 12pcs of those cheap Chinese 7070 emitters (sort of a copy of the real Cree XHP 70.2) and modding the TR-J20 reflector to fit would work for 12k lumens, with a suitable driver, of course. :slight_smile:
They are just 3 usd each on Taobao.

Nah….probably focus would be off. :frowning: