【TS10V3 prototype】Should we continue with the TS10 series~

The issue is that Wurkkos isn’t really equipped to dedome LEDs. The 519A looks a lot better with the dome off, but that probably isn’t compatible with Wurkkos’ manufacturing capabilities.

A Nichia 219B should work though, without modification. If it’s a good bin, it looks really good.

Or there are some other flat LEDs which could work.

Something around 4000K with a pink (negative duv) tint would be good, or around 4500K with a pink or zero duv, or even as high as 5000K with a zero duv. The 4000K LEDs in most lights are way too green.

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Great recommendation. You’re absolutely right that 519a (5700k, 5000k, 4500k) could be slightly green especially at lower output, but with the lower 4000k version this green tint “seems” less bothersome to my eyes. I’m thinking maybe the warm yellow tone of lower CCT “hides” the green tint of positive Duv?

@Wurkkos, something like Nichia 519a 4000k that’s already being used by a competitor in Lumintop FWAA, with beautiful result.

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imo the TS10 V2 was the end of an era. To use 519a, and to be AA compatible, the TS10 needs significant changes:

  1. New driver
  2. New mcpcb
  3. New optic
  4. New price

the competition:

The light that superseded the TS10 is the Emisar D3AA. It is AA compatible, 519a compatible, and it has Anduril. It costs $45.81 with DeDomed 519a.

The Lumintop FWAA costs $39.95 and is Not AA compatible, it does use Domed 519a LEDs.

The Skilhunt EC150 costs $47.80, and Is AA compatible. It does use Domed 519a LEDs, but it does not have Anduril.

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Great light, just a touch costly in comparison. And not sure about any light “superseding” any other light. They each have a goal to serve.

TS10, which I love (very nice tint especially at turbo) was available for what $5 on sale. JK :slight_smile:

The “bad” thing about FWAA is its FET driver. The good thing about the same driver is glorious direct drive 2500 lm turbo output with equally glorious tint. Albeit lasting 10 seconds lol and to be used transiently only.

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TS10 SG is my favourite flashlight out of my entire collection. I’m sad I bought only one of them.

I also have the TS10 V2, and Sofirn SC13A, but the SG for me is the goldilock of EDC with right combination of flood and throw for a tiny flashlight like this. It permanently lives in my pockets.

I’m looking forward to something similar sooner or later.

Oh, I also just bought a TS11 (still with the curier at the moment), to help the clearance sale and hoping for a new regulated version!

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The TS11 is the only compact thrower I can really recommend for people who aren’t deep into torches as a hobby. So I hope it will stay around.

I think the main competition is the KR1AA. It shows what the TS10 and FWAA could be with nicer components inside. But now that it exists, it will probably be difficult to compete against, so that might be a reason not to make a TS10v3.

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agree
I dont think the TS10 can compete with the dual fuel feature and still keep the price below $30.

I think people would buy a new TS10 if the price was below $30, and it has 519a LEDs. The buck driver would attract a lot of buyers too.

imo the reason the TS10 V2 was not more popular, was primarily due to the Green tint of the CSP LEDs. That was perceived as a DownGrade compared to the V1.

The other factor was that to prevent burning the CSP, the output was reduced. 519a LEDs would not have that problem, and people could DeDome for Rosy tint.

Notice how popular (I think) the FWAA is, even at a higher price, now that it has 519a LEDs. Even though it has no Aux and no flashing pads.. The TS10 is superior in both regards.

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This seems very perplexing to me. It was the favorite light around here by popular vote for at least a couple of years. I think I bought over 20 of them.

But maybe that is why we could get them for around $12 with a battery for a while. Quite a shame.

But it just points out that our little microcosm here of the full flashlight buying population is not always a good indicator of profitability for the manufacturer.

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It’s really hard to make decent margins selling a budget flashlight to enthusiasts.

The TS10 was great for $20 but very few enthusiasts will pay $30+ for it with Hanks for not much more. And when you ask enthusiasts what they want to change it’s basically to add a lume/freeman caliber driver and Nichia emitters. That will add a lot to the BOM and require higher pricing. And that would necessitate even higher pricing.

And let’s be honest, Wurkkos has some good drivers but has never delivered a great Anduril capable driver. The original TS26s had a decent buck driver but the new TS26A is a lowkey disaster. Much less efficient and can’t really do moonlight. What enthusiast wants that? I’m a fan of Wurkkos but they are being pushed to do a thing that doesn’t really wl for them.

I don’t blame Wurkkos for discontinuing it. It’s basically a fan service loss leader for them.

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I’ve collected nearly all famous rosy LEDs known to mankind, 219b multiple CCT’s, 519a Domed and DD multiple CCT’s, Firefly all kinds, NTG, etc. etc. And every time I turn on my Convoy B35AM 4500k light, I think to myself “ahh… this is what it’s all about.”

Life is not complete without Nichia B35AM. And I’m only half kidding. :innocent:

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1&2: Agreed. Question for you or any expert please: Wurkkos already has a duel fuel buck-boost driver in Wurkkos TS15, even with USB-C charging . Isn’t it a simple matter to adapt it to TS10 host?

3: IMHO 519a 4000k a very obvious choice. I actually don’t mind CSP2323 4000k either as far as tint is good.

Buck boost duel fuel with 519a 4000k if kept below $30 will be a formidable competitor, IMHO. Just please don’t put it on sale for $10 WITH battery because you will lose your shirts, again. :slightly_smiling_face: :+1: JK.

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I’ve only tried one B35AM. It’s in a DM11 prototype. It seems … okay-ish. It looks pretty green compared to my favorite LEDs, but it’s far from the worst. Would be pretty okay at 5000K, but I wouldn’t want that much green in a 4000K LED. For that matter, it’d be nice if the TS10 came in a 5000K variety… because typically 4000K is too green and 6000K is too blue, but 5000K is easier to get right.

More importantly, it couldn’t be used in a tiny triple like the TS10, because it’s too big. Instead you would need single-die LEDs like the E21A or E17A. But the B35AM could be okay in a TS10 SG maybe.

Yeah, I get the feeling the sales may have been counterproductive. Sales, in general, train people not to buy anything for regular price. It attracts the kind of customers you don’t want, and makes things seem less valuable than they are, and sets unrealistic expectations. Even as a buyer, I usually prefer when something is given a single fair price which doesn’t change. Because I hate gambling. Instead of simply buying what I need when I need it, sales turn the buying process into a game of speculative investment, like playing the stock market or trying to make a profit with crypto, or even haggling with a car salesman. And I hate that game so much that I usually just leave without buying anything, and look for somewhere less unpleasant to shop.

Sales get us viral products which sell a large amount in a short time and then disappear forever, because deal shoppers move on to the next cheap fad. But an item like the TS10 is the type of thing I want to have available long term. A staple, so to speak… something reliable that I can always count on and recommend to people.

ZebraLight, for example, has had a “H5x” and “SC5x” product available for 15+ years now, with consistently good quality and performance. The LED type and model number may roll forward every year or two, but you can always count on them to have something pretty similar which is going to be good. So it gets recommended a lot, and they have a lot of loyal long-term customers.

Wurkkos could have that too, with the TS10, TS10 SG, and HD10. The products themselves are pretty solid, and they serve needs that people will continue to have. But long term viability would require a change in business practices. These seem like the type of core products that could get a company a steady income to serve as a stable foundation. But if you do the sales game with your core products, the foundation won’t be solid.

Then again, I’m an engineer… not a business person. So don’t take my opinion on this too seriously.

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I see your point… But maybe 15 of my friends and family are proud owners of TS10s because of those sales..

Good for me and them, but not for Wurkkos. I am sure they had reasons for doing that though. At that point sales had to be flagging and they had way too much stock. I would guess they had already made the decision to to stop production by the time the sales hit. I think the big price cuts didn’t cause the problems. It was the result of other problems.

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TS15 is not a anduril version ,so Anduril is not a must need?

Thank you guys , I have received a lot of useful information
The TS10V3 seems to be more like an upgraded version of the TS10SG, using a 519A LED , constant current drive, compatible with AA batteries, and does not require multiple CSP-like LEDs
Regarding the sales model, we indeed had many shortcomings in the past , but we are gradually making corrections.
No matter what, I will try my best to persuade them. I still hope to keep the price within $30.
The constant current drive comes from SC13CU, but it lacks AUX functionality, which needs to be improved in the program. We sincerely need your help. @ToyKeeper @jon_slider @SammysHP

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Very surprised to hear, especially since I seem to have similar opinions of LEDs as you, having read many of your posts. Probably we have differe bins, if not different CCT or optic.

The B35AM I’m referring to is the 4500k version from Convoy. It has top notch measurements (Ra 98, R9 99 from Simon) and does not have a hint of green in picture or IRL. It’s Duv of around -0.0050 is too negative to be green.

I like to use 219b sw45k for comparison because of its popularity, and I like it. But… I love B35AM 4500k (and NTG50 4200k). My best description of B35AM 4500k: less rosy but not green, more like warm tone of morning sun.

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Thanks for your effort. I think this is crucial. It’s always about the money (especially when people say it’s not about the money :slightly_smiling_face:).

And especially since a competitor Lumintop FW1AA with 519a 4000k and Anduril 2 has “set the mark” at $30 on permanent sale. FW1AA has FET driver, yours with boost buck and dual fuel will have a huge advantage, but IMHO might still be death on arrival JK if it misses that 30 mark.

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True. I wouldn’t pay $50 for an AA compatible Wurkkos. I would pay $40 for a 18650 triple from Wurkkos with a current regulated driver though…

In order for the proposed TS10V3 to work, you’d basicslly be making a tail switch D3AA in a different host, but try to sell it for $20 cheaper? Best of luck.

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Well, yeah, all of the above. But also, different eyes.

Here’s how it looks if I white-balance it to match what I see:

I have a DA1K w/ NTG50 4200K, and a couple of D4K w/ 519A 5700K DD, and a bunch of lights with 219B 4500K. Also just one light with B35AM. This pic (at least on the two screens I checked, and by pixel peeping the raw RGB values) is pretty close to how those look to me IRL.

I find the NTG and 219B look like a pretty pure white, while the 519A DD looks a little bit golden, and B35AM looks a little bit green. Would love to have the 219B or the 519A DD in a TS10.


Edit: To clarify, this was a global white balance adjustment across the entire image, and a slight brightness boost. I didn’t modify anything on a per-beam level. The color of each beam, relative to the other beams, is the same as the original image… it just shows how they’d look with a slightly different white balance setting on the camera, or to someone with slightly different eyes.

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Unfortunately 219b sw45k is history, except from perhaps small scale vendors. Even who I thought was a significant hoarder of the LED, Simon/Convoy, has confirmed that only R80 version remains, whether bare LED or in flashlights.

The interesting thing is on the used market there is no way to know which version is being sold. Glad I stocked up on this extinct rare bird.

Yep if B35AM looks that green to your eyes then we are definitley talking about two different creatures.

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