Gauss, are those the most relevant slides? I’m on mobile so adding them is a pain but it looks like from your source, a base of 1c is chosen in one test, if increased to 4c then you get a 4% increase in broken bonds, is that correct?
I can live with that, in fact bring on 12A charging :sunglasses:
It also seems to show that a greater cause of aging is leaving the cells in a high state of charge, much more so than higher charge rates, especially here, where no one in this thread gets even near 1c charging, let alone 2,3 or even 4c.
I’m probably reading that all wrong so feel free to correct me
No my reply was to you.
We had been talking about charging 18650”s at 1A & 26650”s at 2A as the Miller said that he had read that you should charge at 500ma because it was “best for the cells”.
You then posted that “Charging at high-current can greatly accelerate aging / degradation of Li-ion cells, and this is not only due to associated higher temperatures, e.g. see the slides below.
That is why I said that charging at .5c or below was not high current.
The only one that may be over charged is the 10440,they were charged for 1 year at that rate[.5A],now that I have the Opus BT-C3100 I can charge @ 300mAh.
I have also charged my VTC5/6, 30Q’s, LG’s @ 2A from time to time 1C =3000mAh=3amps
We were all talking about under .5c charge rates not high charge rates when you posted “Charging at high-current can greatly accelerate aging / degradation of Li-ion cells” I assume in response to our discussion.
If it were not in response to our discussion what was the point of you post as it had no bearing on what we were talking about ?
I will politely decline to respond to you again in this thread thanks.
But your statement & assertion about “Charging at high current”, without any stated accompaying parameters; seems somewhat lost & out of place in this discussion.
Without depending so highly on the “context” you spoke of above, please give us a general rule as to define what constitutes “Charging at high current”.
You know, something not to technical so those of us in the layman category may understand it.
Thanks all!
Clear at our max 2A (my case even just 1A) we are not overcharging
But if it is hot lower charge rates are good.
Store cells at 40-50% charge state
Do not over charge or discharge
Thanks
I said that I wouldn”t respond but here goes.
So the charge rates I was talking about ie 1A for a 3000-3400mah 18650”s or 0.3C is exactly what your “datasheet” recommends as the correct rate to charge at to obtain rated cycle life.
So as I have said it is not a “high” charge rate.
Also the 2A charge rate or 0.4C I was talking about for 5000mah 26650”s is slap bang between your datasheets recommended max cycle rate of 0.3C & 0.5C which your datasheet says will lose some cycles.
Again I fail to see how this could be interpreted as being a “high” charge rate although it is slightly over your recommended max cycle charge rate of 0.3C.
I still can”t see why you felt the need to confuse our discussion by posting this information as it had no bearing on what we were talking about.
Also as I have said previously good quality cells are so cheap that I am not bothered if I lose a few cycles due to my charging methods.
However your information shows that where my 18650”s are concerned I will not lose any cycles as I am charging at the recommended max cycle rate & my 266650”s “may” lose a few cycles the way that I charge them.
The miller in the end its your cells and your chargers. If your not waiting around for cells to use your lights. Charge at .25 amp if you wish. Its your choice in the end. If you have spares what’s the rush. Ya cells are cheap now. But if there not needed at the moment charge them at 500mah. Don’t charge at a higher current if your not comfortable with it. You can charge at .1 if you want. Lithium cells arnt like nihm they don’t need a certain rate for termination. And a lot of charges the lower the charge the more full it charges. A lot of charges at 2 amps end current is around 200mah, 1 amp around 100mah and .5 around 50-70 mah cut off. The lower the cut off the more topped off the cell is. There’s nothing wrong with the way you are charging your cells. If you want to put them on w computer CPU fan do it no harm in it. To each their own. A extra 50 cycles might ve worth it to you. And someone else might say screw it 50 cycles the cell is only $5.
Xstar had in one of their ads one time for their 5000mah 26650, it was rated for 500 cycles but if you charge it at .25amp that its 750 cycles. Everyone’s own personal decision no right or wrong. Depends on the individual need of the person.
I charge at 500-1000mah just depends if its just a couple cells I have plenty from laptop/tool pack pulls. Not to mention Lowe’s 1.5ah packs are $10 and have 6 Samsung 15l in them 18 amp cells. If I took my daughters to the park I might have 15-30 cells to charge. (City doesn’t change the light bulbs so I light it up) and will charge at 1 amp just because of the number of cells. Don’t charge at 2 amps often. I have to top up 26650s before I left because I only have 8 of those. But usually let them charge at 1 amp even 500mah overnight at times.
Whatever gauss, I really can”t be bothered to argue with you.
You have made several statements & assumptions above that are incorrect but you carry on.
I can”t be bothered to explain to you nor do I see the need to as it is obvious that you are twisting things to suit your own agenda.
So I definitely won”t be posting a reply to you again as it is like trying to argue with a brick wall with you but I would like to say one thing to you.
I think that it is pretty low asking me a question on here, that you already knew the answer to, just to then post my reply over on the other forum to try & back up an argument you were having.
It won”t be a problem again as it is the first & last time that you will use me to inflate your ego
Over & out
Woohoo! So my cheapie little FT charger (400mA) will have my cells living practically forever.
I rarely have a sitch when I need a topped off cell Rignt Now, so that’s pretty much what I do, just let them slooowly marinste in electron goodness and soak it all in.
You know, that is very well put Speed4goal!!
I was the one who mis-spoke also about Li Ion termination, my bad. :person_facepalming:
Whether it be 500, 1000, or 2000 ma charge, as has been discussed in this thread; I doubt any of us are doing much… if any damage at up to 0.7 C charge rates on quality cells.
OK, fine. But what is the point of what you have posted then???
Because I am betting the vast majority of us here on BLF, or anywhere else for that matter; do not have the knowledge or means to determine the parameters (“the exact chemistry, ambient temperature, tolerable degradation, etc.”) you speak of and suggest before we charge our Li ion batteries.
So, in the context of what you have posted; what would you recommend to the ‘lay person’ who wishes to charge their batteries in a timely manner…… without “Charging at high current”??
It would seem there must be a simple general answer the simple general lay person can follow……… otherwise most everything you have posted is good only for use in the science lab by highly trained experts.
