What do I need for programming ATtiny25?

[RMM]

Also remember that there are two versions of the attiny25. The attiny25 and the attiny25v (different operating voltage range; different peak clock frequency).

[Mike_C]

@vex_zg

While we’re at it - what is the reason not to go for attiny45 or 85? they have 4k/8k, I think 25’s 2k could become a limitation easily.

They can be used on the same footprint as the ATtiny13a if you carefully bend the legs back under it and use hot air to solder it.

[Microa]

The 13A we use is 150mil 8S1 package, order code is Attiny13A-SSU. The bigger one is 208mil 8S2 package, order code is Attiny13A-SU.
The 25 also has 150mil S8S1 package, order code Attiny25-SSU and 208mil 8S2 package, order code Attiny25-SU.
The 45 and 85 do not have 150mil package.

[cajampa]

Is it possible to use the attiny13a-mmu that is smaller, with the normal attiny13a firmware? but how would you program it? is it only possible before the reflow?

[wight]

@cajampa

Is it possible to use the attiny13a-mmu that is smaller, with the normal attiny13a firmware? but how would you program it? is it only possible before the reflow?

• Yes, it’s possible to use the normal firmware.
• In-system programming - Wikipedia We normally use ISP to program it using an SOIC clip. Since that package can’t be clipped a person would have to have contact points broken out in the circuit for all of the ISP.

[RMM]

Or you can program it with a breakout board before reflowing it onto the board.

From the Oshpark Projects Thread

@RMM

This board should be useful for testing and programming the "tiny" attiny13a (MMU). It is labeled with USBAsp pins for easy hookup (I always mix up at least one pin every time I wire up a new programming clip! )

[wight]

Oops, I misinterpreted the question slightly.

[RMM]

I do think that having pins on the driver to hook to (obviously some existing pins can serve double duty) may also be useful.

[cajampa]

Aha, so that how it is done, solder point on the board that is connected to the pins, that you solder a wire to and connect that to the programmer, and then when you are satisfied with the setup you just remove those wires.

[cajampa]

@RMM

Or you can program it with a breakout board before reflowing it onto the board.

From the Oshpark Projects Thread

@RMM

This board should be useful for testing and programming the “tiny” attiny13a (MMU). It is labeled with USBAsp pins for easy hookup (I always mix up at least one pin every time I wire up a new programming clip! )

Ok, so it is possible before the reflow then.

Edit
This is very interesting RMM, that would make the hookup much easier
Have you done any projects with the -MMU size?

EDIT2
I don’t have the skill to do this yet, but i imagine a tiny driver with very small smd components, a tiny FET and the attiny13a-mmu for easier fit (and in some cases makes it possible) in smaller lights

[wight]

Also I’m sure that there are many plastic housings used for this sort of thing. Things of this sort:
http://www.programming-adapter.com/QFN-prog-adapt.htm
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/QFN-0808-01-Adapter-QFN8-D8-WSON8-DIP8-Programming-Adapter-DFN5x6A-8-Test-Socket/818356_751535011.html
http://www.weilei.com/QFN11E.htm

[Microa]

Usually we make a pogo pin programming adapter for the specific board, so that we can update the code later.

[vex_zg]

@Mike C

@vex_zg

While we’re at it - what is the reason not to go for attiny45 or 85? they have 4k/8k, I think 25’s 2k could become a limitation easily.

They can be used on the same footprint as the ATtiny13a if you carefully bend the legs back under it and use hot air to solder it.

Can do that!
Which clip can be used to reprogram? I have the one for the 150mil ATtiny13A, I presume it will not clip onto the 208mil ATtiy45/85

edit:
this is the cheapest 85 that I could find, considering the shipping and the per unit costs, unit price comes out as cca $1.3 with free shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10PCS-ATMEL-SOP-8-ATTINY85-20SU-Tiny85-20SU-CHIP-IC-/371220134717?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item566e71bb3d

Mikrotik sells them for $1.5per pc + $8.5 shipping (Sweden)

Datasheet for ATtiny13

1626866.pdf

Datasheet for ATTiny25/ATtiny45/Attiny85

1698186.pdf

Question 1: Is this the 208mil package mentioned earlier as the smallest package for the 85? yes it is,
Question 2: Will the SOIC clip used for Attiny13A clip onto this one? There are some differences between 8S1 and 8S2 packages, but I can’t be sure if the Regular pomona SOIC8 clip can tolerate it or not.

Question 3: Which version of the 85 to order: 10Mhz:1.8-5.5V or 20MHz: 2.5-5.5V ?

[wight]

• That’s the smallest SOIC package, other packages are flat-no-leads packages.
• The SOIC clip will fit both 150mil and 208mil.
• I’d get the low voltage version. It’s not a big deal though. Check the voltage/freq list/table at the top of the datasheet. Subtract 0.2v from the lowest battery voltage we plan to run the MCU from (2.8v?). Make sure the MCU can do 4.8Mhz at that low voltage.

[vex_zg]

@wight

* That’s the smallest SOIC package, other packages are flat-no-leads packages.

• The SOIC clip will fit both 150mil and 208mil.
• I’d get the low voltage version. It’s not a big deal though. Check the voltage/freq list/table at the top of the datasheet. Subtract 0.2v from the lowest battery voltage we plan to run the MCU from (2.8v?). Make sure the MCU can do 4.8Mhz at that low voltage.

the low voltage version is cca 60% more expensive. Can I go with normal version?

[vex_zg]

Found another source for Swedes, there’s a shop in Solna/Stockholm:

https://www.elfa.se/elfa3~zz_en/elfa/init.do?item=73-219-27&toc=20966

I am still unclear should I get the low voltage version or regular, the low voltage is quite a bit more expensive

[Mike_C]

@vex_zg

Found another source for Swedes, there’s a shop in Solna/Stockholm:

https://www.elfa.se/elfa3~zz_en/elfa/init.do?item=73-219-27&toc=20966

I am still unclear should I get the low voltage version or regular, the low voltage is quite a bit more expensive

I’m actually going there tomorrow after work. Want me to pick something up for you?

[Mike_C]

Oops, I’m actually not going tomorrow. I forgot to check in store stock, they don’t have what I want in the actual shop.

[Mike_C]

@vex_zg

Can do that!
Which clip can be used to reprogram? I have the one for the 150mil ATtiny13A, I presume it will not clip onto the 208mil ATtiy45/85

Forgot to answer this one… The clip I use for the 13A fits on to my 85s.

[RMM]

@vex_zg

@wight

• That’s the smallest SOIC package, other packages are flat-no-leads packages. * The SOIC clip will fit both 150mil and 208mil. * I’d get the low voltage version. It’s not a big deal though. Check the voltage/freq list/table at the top of the datasheet. Subtract 0.2v from the lowest battery voltage we plan to run the MCU from (2.8v?). Make sure the MCU can do 4.8Mhz at that low voltage.

the low voltage version is cca 60% more expensive. Can I go with normal version?

Yes, but it will shut off at around 2.8v. If you don't care about that, then you can use the non-V version.