This thread is timely for me. I was just about to purchase a DW4 with a boost driver and 519A, but the preflash on moonlight is a deal breaker for me. I had either a Fenix or 4sevens light (don’t remember which) that did it on its lowest setting and it drove me absolutely nuts so I’m not going there again.
I think your best course of action would be to sell the light. It sounds like it’s a popular configuration and basically new so you should be able to recoup most of your money. There’s nothing wrong with it, you just don’t like it.
D4K with a typical configuration is ~$66. Multiply that by 20 and you get $1,320. Realistically it could be manufactured in the united States with globally sourced components and sold for less than double, which would put the sales price in-line with name brand Chinese produced lights such as Olight.
In my opinion, anyone doing little research, and looking for moonlight, shouldn't picked the boost driver from hank, as the moonlight issues are known in it (hardware).
And the moonlight on boost driver is actually quite strong.
I too have KR4 and D4v2 with boost driver, and the behave the same.
if you want moonlight and a boost driver, maybe look for new fireflies, the should have new high precision CC drivers.
But do wait for the reviews, so we know it's actually ok.
edit: got info from jack, that he have two version of the 6A lume1 driver, the old one, and the new high precision one, so be sure to contact him via email before making purchase.
This type of issue, isn't a defect in my opinion.
If you really don't like it, then resell it, or gift it to somebody. It's actually quite good flashlight.
I get lights that I don’t like sometimes, like anyone else. Sell them on Ebay, and think of them as rentals (which you paid a fee to rent.)
That said, I sympathize with the consumer in this specific case. That is weird behavior that isn’t documented on the product page, and it basically renders one of the modes useless.
Sometimes I think people are too picky, but this is not one of those situations. A bright flash of light is a big problem for a mode that is supposed to output the lowest level of light possible. Hank shouldn’t expect a customer to be happy with that.
I would not lead with a Paypal or Credit Card charge-back though. That seems pretty rude considering how accommodating Hank usually is. I would explain politely but clearly why this flaw ruins the light for you. Further explain that if the product page had disclosed this information you would have chosen a different driver. If he doesn’t offer (and he might) I would request a replacement of whichever component you are comfortable swapping on your own (be it the driver or the entire head). Only if he treats the request as unreasonable and denies it would I file a dispute.
I understand where people are coming from saying that noone should file a dispute. The prices are relatively low and it would be nice to keep them that way. On the other hand, Hank isn’t selling these lights at a loss and it is his job to properly disclose the functionality of the products he is selling. It doesn’t makes sense for the consumer to eat the cost in this situation.
“Hank” (Emisar / Noctigon) doesn’t care all too much otherwise this behavior wouldn’t be present. It was there on the prototypes and it went on to production that way.
You can’t possibly use Olight and Emisar/Noctigon in the same sentence.
Emisar is the number one champion of high performance budget lights. Olight is overpriced proprietary garbage.
When a manufacturer deviates from standards that have existed for decades, it pushes our hobby into the dark ages. Standards, especially open standards like Andruil is where the future is. IMHO, Olight is living in the past. Not a good place to be if you are in the technology business.
I don’t personally own any Olight products, or have any interest in them, but somebody is buying enough of them to make Olight viable as a business. Until that stops, they can sell whatever poor products they want until the cows come home.
I have to say, this is something that merits a big “NOTE” on the product page. Moonlight is for low lumens use, to preserve night vision. Having to cup your hand over the emitter every time you want moonlight is… super annoying. And it’s very misleading for it not to be mentioned, for folks who make frequent use of the moonlight mode.
I agree, this is a better way to go. There are likely plenty of buyers for Hank’s lights that could care less about moonlight—all in it for the turbo/high saturation. A D4K with 519a and boost driver is desirable for enough people here that it should sell. Granted, an annoyance in having to go through that effort, but at least it’ll settle it out.
And frankly, Hank is a good guy. He runs a very small operation. They do make mistakes on listing pages (e.g. product pages where some show all dimensions and weight of a flashlight, while some end up leaving off weight; lumens output left off for an LED in the option list; etc.). I consider that omission about the flash to be a notable oversight. He should correct this in the details for when selecting the boost driver, the way he mentions it’s not available for certain emitters like E21A. Perhaps he could also compensate the frustration with a custom one-time coupon code to offset cost of a new light.
It boggles my mind how much money Olight charges for their lights (and with cold tints)… and gets plenty of people to pay it. It’s all down to awareness. I’ll bet most of the buyers aren’t flashaholics who frequent forums like this. They just don’t know what else is out there, but Olight advertising is plentiful, they’ve got eye candy themes for certain demographics (like American flag silkscreen)… I enjoy their keychain lights though. When the sales come around, they’re a good value. I usually give them as gifts.
It boggles my mind how much money Olight charges for their lights (and with cold tints)… and gets plenty of people to pay it. It’s all down to awareness. I’ll bet most of the buyers aren’t flashaholics who frequent forums like this. They just don’t know what else is out there, but Olight advertising is plentiful, they’ve got eye candy themes for certain demographics (like American flag silkscreen)… I enjoy their keychain lights though. When the sales come around, they’re a good value. I usually give them as gifts.
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Same could be said of Apple products, but many people drink the juice
In my D1v2 (with B35AM, which I believe uses a boost driver), the flash is not that bright. If I set the lowest level to 3, I don’t notice it. The flash is only visible on level 1 and 2.
So, I did some measurements to see how bright the flash is. I don’t have any instruments to measure the brightness of the instant flash, but since I don’t see the flash on level 3, it should be brighter than level 2 but less than level 3. So, I decided to measure the output on the those two levels using my lux meter. My lux meter reads 880lux on level 2 and 3950lux on level 3. For reference, 1 lumen output on my TINI2 reads 7200lux. So, I can deduce from my measurements that so called flash is less than one lumen (less than 3950/7200=0.55 lumen). I cannot say how bright the flash is for D4K, but from what I can observe less than one lumen flash before moon light is not a big issue for me.
It would be nice if the flash is not there. But is it a major issue? I would say no. Another issue with boost driver lights is that moonlight output is unstable. It would be nice if they are stable. But if it costs more, I would vote against it because level 3 or 4 is perfectly fine for me. If I really need lowest output, some flickering is okay with me. Of course, I say this because very low output is not my priority. Apparently there are people who think otherwise. However, I have not seen flashlight specs that specify moonlight levels are 0.x or 0.0x lumen, so I guess the lowest mode do not get a lot of attention.
Ok, so I’m pretty sure OP and I have the exact same model of D4K…519A with boost. I’m running a 50E cell but that shouldn’t matter. Since I hadn’t been able to see this flash-moon and in the absence of a video to help, I went ahead and did a factory reset on my light to test. Out of the box, no moon-flash on stepped or ramped, simple or advanced. I’d have to find the file to see but he’s clearly not setting the floors at level 1…seems like somewhere around level 5 or so but that’s hard to tell visually. When I configured the floor in advanced to be level 1, then I did see a flash but good god fellas, it’s so quick and minute. Hardly something to call it a defect or that would destroy your night vision…I mean come on here. My eyes aren’t OLD but they aren’t so young anymore either, and I do notice slowed reaction to big changes in lighting/contrast, but with 20-minute dark adapted eyes, this moon-flash thing didn’t affect me at all. My eyes aren’t everyone’s of course, and moon isn’t a huge deal for me (especially on a 4-emitter light….). The lowest level is still far brighter than a good moonlight mode that we’re all used to with single emitters and drivers properly suited for moon.
So OP in the Hank Thread said that he changed his floor to level 1 and myself and others there said, yeah, too low, bump it up. I experimented a little just now and level 3 still has that teeny jump flash but it’s slightly less apparent. Level 4 even less so and on level 5 I’d be hard pressed to say that it was noticeable if it was still there. Hard to tell with only one light to play with but it doesn’t seem like level 5 is too terribly much brighter than level 1, and if 3 or 4 works then that’s a smidge less light still. At any rate this light will never have a proper low moonlight mode with four emitters unless another channel were added to try to drop it even lower, with stability.
It’s no fun to be disappointed and it’s unfortunate that a tiny issue like this wasn’t noticed in reading before ordering, but I’m honestly surprised that people are upset about this. It’s just hardly anything at all. Contrasted with the bizarre blinding flash on the SP10 Pro that actually was blindingly bright…I mean this is nothing.
OP, set that floor to 3 or 4 or 5 and see what you think. I guess whatever Hank has set as the floor wasn’t dim enough for you but work your way up from level 1 to see if anything feels right for your eyes before you try a return or selling the light.
None of the lights I own flash when starting up in moonlight mode and I wouldn't have thought a boost driver would cause such a thing, but @thefreeman explained the existing design shortcoming. Original Poster @river345 was very polite in explaining the situation he found himself in and why, which I think is quite reasonable.
I'm thankful for the topic and those who contributed with measured responses.
The technical explanations and education provided by "thefreeman" and many others on this forum have helped me become more than just a "Flashlight Philosopher".
Thanks for the comments and advice everyone. I’m probably not going to keep the light as is, and may end up selling it somewhere. Moonlight flash is just too annoying to live with, haha. At some level, I understand where some people are coming from with thinking it’s not a big deal. There are some aspects of other lights - like hold for off or tail switch lights - that I feel strongly would never work for me. But other people are fine with those. Despite feeling strongly that it would drive me crazy, I believe the people who say they like lights like that. ¯\/¯
There’s not really an objective way to say this is OK or this isn’t OK. If flashlights were just about illumination, probably this forum won’t exist. It’s not about illumination. It’s about having things the way we want.
Kind of wish I found this thread before I picked up my KR1 XHP70.3 HI in copper. Mmm…copper…
First time I’ve gone with a boost driver, so live and learn, I guess. Still, I do quite like the light, even though it accidentally turns on in my pocket if I forget to lock it. Might need to look into picking up another one.
Wow, I just found this thread and I know people can have different opinions about things … but still: wow.
I have a D4K with 519A DDs and a D1K with XHP 70.3 HI, both with the boost driver.
I manually set ramp bottom to level 1 of 120 on all my lights so they’re all at the lowest brightness they can be.
There is a very short pre-flash/jump-start on both lights (ca. 1/10th of a second). It is brighter than the actual moonlight level (maybe 2-3x brighter) and … it’s absolutely not an issue even with completely dark adapted eyes, IMHO.
I don’t think it’s detrimental to moonlight use in any way. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I fully agree. Yes, it’s a quick blip, but it’s more of a nonissue when compared to how bright moonlight is compared to a linear or FET driver. I like me some sub-1 lumen moonlight.
