Hello! I am an extreme novice but am trying to learn all I can and hope to build my first light soon. My interest in lights are pretty niche i.e lights with tactical/defensive function (although I am interested in EDC/general purpose uses too). So my questions are: What makes lights like Surefire, Cloud Defensive, ModLite, etc. so good? I know they all pot their electronics, have a reputation for reliability, and pretty much have base UI that you learn once and its muscle memory for all their products. But I just cant really believe that these companies with govt. contracts and overpriced lights are using anything other than Chinese LEDS and drivers just in a well machined body. Is there some secret sauce I don’t know about?
with that being said… what are the attributes of components that contribute to certain performance metrics? Say I wanted to build a light that would outperform or be equal to any name brand light, what would I look to find to give a more spill focused beam? What about a beam with massive candela? What are the factors that limit runtime at max output (I.e Modlites immediately ramping down after ~10-20 sec of max output)? Is this just efficiency loss from heat? Nature of the beast with current battery tech? How would I create a light that would crush the highdollar units and what do I need to learn to ensure that it does what I want it to.
Surefire usually uses Cree LED’s, they are American. They design and build their own electronics. Surefire and Streamlight are mostly it with Federal contracts. In those contracts they have to pass 100% of the test requirements. Such as the Berry Amendment. Can’t pass the requirements then not considered for the bids. Many smaller agencies then buy the winners product accepting Federal testing. At the SHOT show Surefire engineers tells some stories about working there. With no testing protocol the first P60 was put in a dryer for some time and survived but the dryer was all chipped up inside so Surefire bought the Engineers wife a new one. Another was the young engineers would bring their work to the Lead who would drop it or toss it across the room. If it still worked then they would discuss the next step. You want cheaper and works 99% of the time get a Chinese flashlight or pacemaker.
The brands mentioned are indestructible. They will work over and over again and they will never, and I mean never, let you down. Not to mention after you are done abusing them for 20 years, you can sell them for more than you paid for them.
No comparison with Chinese junk.
You owe it to yourself to buy one and be your own judge.
Not including Surefire, I’ve initiated some discussions and seen some disassemblies, most Surefire products are not potted.
Disassembly of the EDC2-DFT. Fortunately, it is at least a buck driver.
There are several people on YouTube that have had issues with their fury model, aviator model as well
Werks holsters YouTube channel also did abuse tests with surefire, stream light, cloud defensive, and modlite and surefire was the first one that broke
Weltool t16 and t19 are Chinese and are fully potted
I like surefire but not everything from China is junk
China has invested heavily in manufacturing and can produce high quality products at lower cost than the West. I’m speculating but suspect there are a range of reasons including economies of scale, profit margins, salaries, raw material, energy, cost of loans etc likely to play a part.
Once you’ve offshored manufacturing, you’re dependent on others for your goods, look at UK for example, we are a “service economy” and barely make anything ourselves any more.
On the topic of performance:
For output, you can select two of: small size, high output or long runtime. The head of a small flashlight will quickly saturate with heat, the driver will drop the output to stop physical damage to the light, couple of years ago, before thermal stepdown was more mainstream, people would occasionally post on this forum where the LED had overheated and unsoldered it’s self from the MCPCB.
Outperform in what sense? You could build some big flashlight with 3-4 21700 and using multiple high output green LEDs which technically would beat anything from surefire etc but the bean would be monochromatic green so not very useful… (green as it’s gaming the system of how brightness is measured- eyes are most sensitive to green).
Or you could buy a Convoy and have good performance at a low cost, which outperforms the USA lights on the basis of $/lumen?
To get an idea of what’s physically possible, look at reviews that include runtime graphs so you can see what happens in the first 0-5 minutes as the light heats up.
Cause merica, its even worse with US “exotic custom lights”
Fraz Labs is the exception, they are based in Arkansas and charge fair prices flr tank lights
I would put what I carry everyday up against any of those mentioned above in a torture test.
No matter how reliable it is you still have to carry two lights because you could lose one.
As to US government and or government agencies purchasing any items there are some requirements to buy us made stuff.
Many individuals in the US don’t really have knowledge or reason to want to buy something directly from China. So there’s a lot more to unpacking this original post here.
