I’m rough on flashlights. The expensive ones I bought in the beginning break almost as easily as the cheap ones. For me, the construction quality is only vital in a tactical laser/light attached to a gun. In that situation, you can’t have the light break on the first shot and the cheap ones might.
Other than that, there are features police like that more expensive models have, like very fast, built-in rechargers.
I still prefer a cheap light that’s just as bright, but I’m not afraid to break…
Mag.
First of all, the word “Deputy” implies that the OP is a Professional Law Enforcement Officer, not a “gunfighter”! I’ve asked most of the LEOs in my family (took years to do) and they all take a personal exception to that term. (TBH, I said “gunSLINGER”) My favorite Uncle didn’t even carry a gun on most of his plainclothes shifts. But he was very respectable and very “persuasive” (ask me how I know what “Large and In Charge” means!) at the same time. And no, West Greenville, SC has never been “safe” or “friendly”! Except when my Uncle was around…
But what’s in a name?
As to the job, no one ever got fired for buying Maglights. The 2D model can be easily modded to make much-more light, and it provides a well-known “Less-Than-Lethal” option if held by the head, especially if you haven’t mastered “The Presence”.
I think its all relative to ones desires & budget. The old sayings alway rings true.
“One mans trash, one mans treasure”
In the car business: ” There is a ass for every seat”
But, I think most of the true flashaolics I know enjoy both budget and high end. The part that may not be enjoyable is the price. As we have seen some times price is not directly related to quality in regards to flashlights.
Personally, I like a solid heavy quality built budget light. But….I have no problem dropping some coin on a custom built high end light from time to time.
A personal thought on the way I have come to see things on this subject.
1. A distinction shall be made between low-end-budget and premium-budget, as per the market itself is categorized, not according to personal evaluation of how much shall a flashlight be sold to be considered “budget”.
Convoy, Crelant and the like are “premium-budget”. Great value, often very “good quality”, most of the times very good in stock configuration.
Whatever-fire and the like are “low-end-budget”. Great value, not-so-often “good quality”, most of the times better as hosts or modding opportunity.
2. “Quality” is a term which is perceived by many in different ways, and out of context it means nothing. “QualitIES” seems to me a more worthy subject.
A good termal path which a pill made out of the right metal for the job and that is not hollow is ONE quality. An anodization which doesn’t wear out easily because it has proper thickness and was applied properly is another “quality”. That’s a noun, not an adjective, in my way to see things, and this way we can compare apples to apples and avoid (useless) small talk about things (SF fanboys often seem to call in the “quality factor” in this senseless way).
3. Sometimes we tend to compare things based on our perspective of what’s best, often this is reductive (happens to me all the time too).
Lumens, lux, runtime, efficiency, size and weight are comparable factors.
UI, beam profile, battery setup etc. are characteristics to factor in the choice of the right tool for the job
Looks are personal preference subjects.
Dimbo, I used the word “professional” and I certainly meant no disrespect to our warrior class generally or to Deputy Dave in particular. I’m sorry you don’t understand that LEOs are, or ought to be, students of the gun. They are modern-day gunfighters whether you, they, or your family members like the term.
I didn’t intend it in a derogatory way. My purpose in using the term “gunfighter” in this context was to say that Dave should contemplate a very bad moment in his career when the build quality and reliability of his flashlight may make all the difference in the world. For a “work” light, maybe budget shouldn’t be part of the equation for Dave and other LEOs.
Put the word “gunfighter” in context of my larger point and maybe you won’t feel so offended.
And Dimbo, really nice chatting with you. I’ve missed you. A lot.
@Cone
I assume the premium lights don’t have linear circuitry so that would be an advantage to buying one of their lights, constant brightness
Also if your life depended on it you have already mentioned you have had surefire failures, so why not carry two convoys you have tested for durability, you should have even more reliability that way.
To be honest the main failure points i would think of in a cheap light is switch and circuitry, if the ano wears off it should would still light perfectly fine, a whole set of threads is insanely unlikely to break all at once, and we know Cree LEDs are practically bulletproof and the same model as the LED used on the high end light.
I would be more concerned with running out of batteries before light failure (a light i have used many times not a new arrival)
LOL… who goes out in the deep woods with Sipik 68? even my back up’s back up light Solar storm SC03 is brighter than Sipik 68, at least bring a C8 
Sipik 68? That will be the last flashlight on my mind to bring if I’m going to a deep woods 
Amateur opinion here but the Convoy L4 was meant to be a ‘quality’ torch. It came with loose retaining rings and an obese terminal spring that was touching a resistor. I’ve also got an Olight i1 eos that is trouble free, same with a Trustfire TR3T6 I’ve had for a long time and still does well. I don’t know what the deal with “Trustfire” is but i think it’s meant to be a cheaper chinese brand. For $30 it’s a bloody good torch.
While I am NOT a professional LEO, I have had many hours of training and have done more than my share of traffic stops and searches. Carrying two marginal lights ISN’T an viable option. If the “bad guy” pops out right when your light goes south then you’re toast as there’s no time to grab another light.
Our instructors are big on the light on, sweep with light, light off and move approach. This pretty much means anything but a forward clicky will drive you insane. Since you seem to like the 14500 / AA size lights, I’ve found the Balder SE-1 http://www.cnqualitygoods.com/goods.php?id=1320 works pretty good for the vast majority of my needs. Fits nicely in the “cell phone” pocket of duty pants, always comes on high (unless very recently changed modes) and has been rock solid reliable. Great on traffic stops as it’s plenty to penetrate even tinted windows but doesn’t seem to be enough light to kill the night vision.
I carry something with a little more “oomph” on my duty belt. I like my SolarForce L2M with the good, Foy-approved (no longer available) drop in. I usually use it for indoor searches and the thing that sometimes drives me crazy is that if I rush the on, sweep, off sequence it’ll change modes. I’ve encouraged those in my unit without a decent light to consider a single mode such as http://www.ebay.com/itm/181378011809?\_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT. You get decent quality that will rival Surefire and more output. Even if you add shipping and $3 for an http://intl-outdoor.com/ forward clicky, you’re still not quite up to $20. You will have to change out the tailswitch (a 5 minute job that requires a tweezer or needle nose plier as the only tool).
I also carry a Convoy L4 on my duty belt (so much for having two mediocre lights . . .) Great output, doesn’t change modes (unless I want it to), great build quality and great for outdoor searches. The SE-1 and L4 are great out of the box but no matter what you pick make sure you use it a while OFF DUTY until you’re certian it’s not going to let you down at a critical moment.
No matter what you pick, be careful out there. It’s nice to have the pro’s chime in around here.
@Cone: I apologize if I seemed offended. I never am as long as you exercise your Rights as you see fit. That’s part of my Uncle’s secret superpower. He taught me (better than his disreputable brother) that everyone has the same Rights, and the Golden Rule applies in all cases. That is why he never needed a gun or even a harsh word, yet I personally witnessed all-out fights just vanish when he walked into a “Very Bad” bar with underage me in tow; hot-rodders stop squealing tires & drive up to him and apologize for mishandling the horsepower, and everyone everywhere treated him as a Trusted Friend, even though he had the “power” to lock them away or shoot them dead (or just break pieces of them off & chew their bones). His HONOR shone like a powerful beacon which everyone loved, more than they loved whatever “illegal” act they were doing, so he was more of a “Peace Officer” than anything else. Picture Andy of Mayberry cross-bred with Godzilla… IMNERHO, if more “hired gunslingers” were like him, we wouldn’t need so many political rules to live in Peace together. I am lucky to have known him.
But I did NOT mean to imply any disrespect of your choice of words; only that it seems that too many of us (myself included, despite experience to the contrary) fail to appreciate the fullness of that “Deputy” role…
EDIT: Thank you, Cone and thank you to all for making me remember my Uncle! I sincerely appreciate it, and if this OT rant isn’t apropos, LMK & I’ll gladly delete it.
In my case (105c in POS 501b), the solder pads where I “upgraded” the LED wires failed to withstand repeated throwing on the floor to show off the “unbreakable” LED. The poor slip-fit switch design in the TrustFire F20s has led my friends to not respect my opinions on flashlights, so you’re dead-eye-dickie on that one as well.
Mostly, as you suggested, my problem is a lack of battery capacity and flow rate.
OTOH, for once, I will now say something nice about … you heard it here first … blinkies! For a dynamic Entry team, a light that JUST did the blinky mode would be pretty awesome, IMNERHO. I would train with a useful grip, to let persistence-of-vision “see through” the blinkies so I’d still be able to aim (thank God for Tritium!!) but not create an attractive target for any bad guys in the room…
It’s a LTL option with a bang! Or not, if the bad guys behave.
Just sayin…
Your questions deserve good answers and I’ll tell you what I’ve come to over the years. When I started in flashlights, it was a different time and all I knew were expensive Surefires and Streamlights. I remember never being flat broke and never able to buy MC-Es and high-end Fenixes. And then I found budget lights. I got into them and loved them. I thought they were the answer to everything.
In time, I found the biggest way in which they disappoint: lack of consistency of build quality. I’ve received lights that didn’t work or barely worked, lights that quit working, lights with unusable UIs, and over time, it has changed my opinion of them. Now, I’ve somewhat graduated back to upper-budget lights or namebrand lights. I’m now a big admirer of Olight. As has been pointed out, just holding them changes your opinion of them. I got tired of buying budget lights for friends, only to find they were not identical to what I received. Very frustrating.
But this isn’t always the case. In the case of Sipik SK68s, they are ingeniously useful because of their simplicity. They are basically disposable and the design just about can’t be improved upon. It happens to be the case that most of the time, we need very little light for most tasks, which is why they are the best little tools around. If I had to pick only one tool, that would be it. Although, no one light is fitted for every task, including that. This is why a good, high-powered thrower is the other answer to the lighting problem. I wouldn’t want to use a Sipik to break up a fight or get some kids’ attention who might be making a ruckus nearby my patrol. I need a good STL-V2 or Maxtoch or M3X, etc. for those tasks.
So continue to experiment and you’ll find great uses for many different lights. It’s ok if one doesn’t work for all. That’s why we should spend money on getting more. 
PLEASE, PLEASE let everyone understand: A “reverse clicky” is BACKWARD, as in RETARDED!! You click, you die, when the flag goes up IRL!!!
If you use a P60, you can short the LED ( + ) to Ground (Thanks, DBCStm!!!) on the reflector, etc. to effectively convert it to Single-Mode. The 2.8A 105c grounded (by accident, as Darwin hath say-ith) makes a forward-clicky 501b into the most awesome EDC for which I could ever ask.
Sorry, guys. I was wrong. When I screwed up my EDC 501b I shorted LED- to Ground, making it single-mode DD with no regulation. Thanks again to DBCstm for keeping me honest!!
Price definitely follows a law of diminishing returns.
In general, most practical needs can be address by a relatively inexpensive light. However, quality tends to go up pretty quickly at the low end of the price scale, and there are some things you simply can’t get without paying a premium. I tend to avoid the items priced at $10 or less because most of them are junk, but there’s some really good stuff in the $15 to $60 range. Anything more than that must be really special or I won’t even consider it.
Cheap items are cheap. Bad anodizing, bad light tint, bad heat sinking, flaky parts, poor build quality, short run time, slow PWM, designed to look cool instead of working well, clone of a clone of a clone, etc. But it’s mostly possible to get something pretty good for like 3X to 10X the price of the really cheap stuff. There’s rarely any need to go into the three-digit price range mentioned in the OP.
For example, compare a SK-68 ($4) to a XinTD C8 ($30). Pretty huge difference in quality. However, going from the XinTD C8 to a similar light in the $100 to $400 price range? They’ll give you pretty much the same output with nearly the same build quality and only a few smallish upgrades which may or may not matter. Maybe the expensive one uses current control instead of fast PWM, but most people can’t see the difference. The more expensive one might offer better shock absorption for rifle mounting. Perhaps it offers more tactical modes or signalling modes or the ability to change settings silently. Or perhaps it has a lot more features, such as the Nitecore SRT7 or CU6, which both have some nifty color (or even UV) modes.
I find I’m willing to pay a premium price for some things… like, I have a couple Zebralights because there simply isn’t anything else on the market with similar features for less money. And I ordered a pricey titanium light so I’d have something really nice as my primary EDC. But mostly, I tend to go for lights near the upper end of the “budget” range — like, a Convoy instead of an UltraFire. And I don’t think I have any lights at all with a three-digit price tag, because the ones I tried weren’t really worth that much to me.
It really just depends on what you need. Chances are, if you tell people here what your needs are, they can recommend something relatively inexpensive which would work.
^
This. Soak up every word. So true.
Bort, I did have a Surefire switch failure, that is true. Everything can and will fail at some point, but I think- as in my opinion- that Surefires have a lower failure rate and higher reliability due to their build quality. Plus they are generally Barney Basic in terms of UI and I would also think this is a plus under stress.
Dimbo, it’s all good, my friend. I hope Deputy Dave never has the kind of violent encounter where he has to shot another human being. Even if he is completely justified, I’m sure it would weigh heavy on his heart. Which is as it should be. We are not designed, most of us, anyway, to kill each other. That said, I think LEOs should have the mindset to do what is necessary to protect themselves and the public. The mindset is what I was really referring to when I said “gun fighter”, not the desire to shot people.
Regardless, I think Deputy Dave would be better served with the best money can buy, even it is overpriced and a bad value for the rest of us.
Oh, this thread turned into an argument about SureFire products? I kinda skipped to the end.
I thought the SureFire discussion ended a long time ago… people either tend to love the brand or think it’s ridiculous, not much in-between. And neither camp seems to have much luck convincing the other. Not much point talking about it.
First opportunity to get back to the thread and really appreciate all that has been offered. Good stuff for me to consider. I appreciate the recommendations and the links and I’m having a most excellent time looking at them and expanding my ‘flashlight horizons’.
For quite a while I carried the Sipik SK68 on-duty. This was as a back up to my issued Streamlight. (I’m a big believer in the ‘2 is 1 and 1 is none’ mantra). It worked well for all I needed it for and did well even after getting knocked around. I’ve since switched the back up over to this Ultrafire SK98 clone that I got a couple of weeks ago to see how it does. So far it’s gone through one use-of-force okay. Like anything, time will tell.
Thanks to this thread I’ve got some more goodies to consider. I guess it was a good thing I was warned in my introduction thread to hide my wallet after joining here.
:bigsmile:
Some reason I didn’t see your post before I made mine? So following are a few more random thoughts that I will type as they flow through my thick skull to the muscles in my hands.
As for Professional use and possible life or death. …I wanted to comment… I also agree on the Surefire. (Elzetta is coming along well too) Expensive batteries are also something I prefer. After rereading all the posts there was scant mention of batteries. I would be very cautious in using Expensive rechargeable cells in a “Professional Use” light. I would never use inexpensive cells of any brand, style or configuration.
I do have several lights mounting on high velocity projectile dispensing devices. They are all Surefire and all have fresh Primary cells. I have had a few of the budget lights fail “under load” when I was just playing around. I will leave budget weapon lights for the airsoft crowd.
What do you get for all that money “spunt” (slang: Past tense for spent) on a high end light???
Well warranty & customer service come to mind. I have only had to use them once and I have owned well over 30 Surefire lights. They also have a very impressive replacement parts page. Not sure if any of you folks have used it. But, I had a switch that was worn out from abuse. With in 7 days, they shipped me a brand new one 100% free of charge no questions asked. I guess if you live in China some of those manufactures may have a attractive warranty. I guess one way of looking at it, when I order a Budget light, to me its a dice roll. I am going to accept it for its flaws & do all the repairs my self. Not a chance I am actually going to take the time to mail it back to China & wait.
Why do expensive lights still sell?
I guess for the average non flashaholic in the US they could say, “rather I spend $50 for a budget light that who knows what I am gonna get, or spend $150 and know I am getting a quality product with a proven track record & good warranty & customer service.”
Not everyone has the time, patients, skills, or internet savy needed to navigate the budget light sea of choices. For them, expensive is probably safer, on many levels and just plain easier. Heck, I know plenty of people who don’t even know what Paypal is!
Also, some people only own one light. If I were only going to own one, it would be the best quality & very likely expensive by any budget! One reason I love budget lights is I can buy many many lights for the price of one Surefire. LOL Helps feed the addiction.
So I digress: Inexpensive v.s. Expensive once again, is all relative. What a conundrum!
Done with my fragmented ramblings.
Good topic
To slightly change the topic, while I like the 18650 SK98 clone…I’m not sure that I like it better than the SK68 I was using. As you’ll see in my sig line link, I belong to a forum on survival and emergency preparedness and I’m a big believer in that mindset (practical prepping rather than waiting for space aliens to attack). So with that mindset I like to have practical options available. At the moment, I have three 18650 lights. I have three more on the way. In total, half of them use only an 18650 battery while the other half also have a 3XAAA adapter. The SK68’s that I have, of course, either uses a 14500 or an AA battery. I like the lights that have the dual option on what will power them from an SEP mindset. While I always EDC carry spare batteries, I like the option and availability of using common batteries if/when needed.
While my 18650 lights are brighter, I’m not sure they’re so much brighter as to be ‘better’ than the smaller 14500/AA lights. I’m referring more to EDC carry in this regard. When camping in the deep woods I have several light sources (glow sticks, hand held lights and head lights). The main light being a larger 18650/AAA light. But I don’t necessarily ‘carry’ that when not needed whereas the EDC lights are on me or in my EDC bag (usually a small sling bag or at the least a Maxpedition pocket organizer). In these cases, small but useful is the ticket.
Anyone else consider this type of thing?