Sure, but a $1000 flashlight is quite decadent.
You could feed a 3rd world village for a year for $1000.
[edit] Okay, probably a rather small village…
Same can be said about folks who wear $300 designer jeans or drive BMWs or wear Rolexes. Doesn’t make them wrong for doing so. And you shouldn’t assume that just because someone spends $1000 on something “decadent” that they don’t also do other more philanthropic things with their money too.
Correct.
Although a BMW is just a good car.
A Bugatti Veyron however, is totally over the top.
I’m just saying that judgmental attitudes go both ways. We can sit here and bash CPF for being judgey about us and our “cheap” lights when we just think they don’t know what they’re missing, but if we get judgmental about folks who buy expensive lights then we’re no better. We may be a small community, and we may all spend a lot of time talking with each other through these communities, but none of us really knows what each other’s life is like. We shouldn’t pretend that we do. What’s “cheap crap” for one is perfectly appropriate for another; likewise what’s “over the top” for one is perfectly appropriate for another.
Well, no.
Blaming the poor for buying cheap things and not spend money on trivial things would be rather silly.
“noblesse oblige” seems to be forgotten long ago…
I think you’re missing the point.
But i’m sure you understand what “totally over the top” and “decadence” mean.
None the less, if i were one of the ‘happy few’ i would probably have less of a problem with it.
Still it raises some moral questions though, when you consider the poverty of billions of unfortunate people.
The world is not fair.
But should we not care?
I don’t always know the answer to that question.
I would not need to defend it , if it was not being attacked! All just criticisms welcome, but to say poor value, only takes cr123 and the price is more of a personal gripe with a light, for being more expensive than you want to pay, rather than it being poor quality, over priced junk made in china as an example.
Nope no fanboy here of any brand, i just have appreciation for some i have had experience with…………some i dont have experience with as too expensive for my taste. But i wont say a hanko trident or a 007 is poor value.
I have many brands of lights, quite a lot of experience too, so i know what is a good light and one that pretends to be or appeals to mall ninja’s over real life or death uses.
As rabid as CPF members seem to you on defending certain brands, some BLF’ers like to be rabid against that! chicken or egg. I see both sides, yes i have seen it get touchy at times when certain brands get slagged. Surefire today are over priced, out dated lights imo. But i also appreciate that not all LEO’s want a hi cri enemy in front. They need single quick mode to illuminate a potential threat and ironically surefire are above and beyond many LEO’s budget . Still some have the attitude , life or death, its worth the extra few $’s for piece of mind. Malkoff for one , a brand i recommend for those types of services…………where clicking through modes and blinkies just does not cut it. Yes expensive at maybe $150 for a light/drop in. But you will still be using it coming out of retirement………………For 1/2 the cost you could buy a nitecore, how many in say 25yrs would you end up buying…………my guess would be more than the value of a malkoff set up. If an issue, its sorted asap, no questions or videos, job done! So in this world we do get what we pay for imo, yes we can get bargains and super value stuff. But its not in abundance and not to be relied on all the time.
I have a good few convoy lights and recommend these more than HDS lights(work that one out!). Right tool for the job, if a tough, reliable EDC light is required, an investment for many years of heavy(real) use(dont mean walking a dog for 30m a night). Budget tends to take a back seat for some when life time investments come in to play, in these circumstances i would recommend a HDS providing they dont want hot rod 30s of WOW then a hot hand performance.
18 thread of 100+ pages over the years of 100’s, heck maybe 1000’s of owners who pretty much have not looked back, says more than one or 2 people having an issue with cost and only running 123 cells(which they dont).
Facts work, odd opinion with a gripe does not, especially if its just a personal opinion(which we are all entitled to).
My point is, if for any type of light is going to get slagged off, at least have some real experience of it………………and know the actual facts.
I have many many EDC lights, from SWM v11r with nichia 219c, to triple s2+, haiku, d25C ti’s to name just a handful, the HDS from my experience is one of the best EDC lights on the planet(personal opinion from my experience). Not saying i am right, nor am i going to persuade anyone, the rotary function is pretty amazing, the reflector design and the 200lm hi cri 4000k nichia 219B gives out a very useful beam. Sapphire glass , thick walls for a solid feel of quality/confidence and several decades of perfecting makes for a formidable challenger to any EDC light out in the market today.
Cheers, it is interesting reading other thoughts :+1:
They can be run on 16340 and 18650 cells, not just cr123
A ZL with a nice Nichia 219 would be pretty nice, though. But I suppose their ~85CRI EasyWhite offerings are close enough. Problem is that because they’re a quad-die, you can only get them with a frosted lens. But I guess replacing the lens with a clear one is a lot easier than replacing the LED.
I do fancy a ZL at some point, compact 18650 light maybe one if not the most advanced(dare i say best) lights under $100. The frosted lens, i have read on more than 1 occasion, maybe 4 or 5 actually that they can crack/fail.
The xhps5 HI and xp50 options really appeal, which or both i dont know to get 1st.
Issue with the 219B is that it can not be pushed hard, most ZL buyers want 1300lm or more……………….219B maybe good forr 300-400lm tops. Dont think many ZL customers would be happy with that type of output, even though us flashaholics know there is more to it than just lumens.
Of course there are the 219C, another possible option…………
Unless you work for HDS, you really don’t need to defend them at all, even if they are “attacked”. Though I don’t equate my personal opinion of “value point” with “attack”.
My favorite brand is Zebralight (for now), but I feel no need to defend people that don’t like them. It all comes down to personal preference, and value for the dollar. Many don’t like ZL’s user interface, and I get that. Many think they’re overpriced, and I get that too. But I like the UI (mostly), and the high output in the small size.
Okay, I have to disagree with you there. 25 years ago, the D cell incandescent Maglite was state-of-the-art for LE. And a mini-mag was the cat’s meow for EDC, lol. How many people would still want to be carrying one of those around, given the choice today? It’s not just about output and features; even a cheap Chinese knock-off today is better quality than a mini-mag.
A 140 lumen HDS may be the best light you can buy a couple of years ago, but even today, is it really preferable to a 1000 lumen ZL (or other brand)? Okay, some will say yes, and I get that. But in 25 years? I kind of doubt that.
And besides that, I still think the best “value” is a mid-priced light. Good enough quality it’s not going to leave you in the dark, but not so expensive that it will leave you homeless. But I’m like that with most stuff. For example, I never buy a bleeding-edge computer, because in 12 months I can buy something just as good for half the price. So I buy a step-down, which is where the value point is.
At the risk of going off on yet another tangent (may not be a bad thing at this point…) I’ve got a Zebra apart right now getting a 219c. Its an older model, an SC80, but supposedly those are easier to mod than newer lights so that’s what I went with. Its on a parts hold though - had to order a new lens since I broke it during disassembly. 
Should be very nice once finished though. I’m looking forward to it anyway. :+1:
All depends on the user to what is best, if they want a 1000lm flashlight, then a 140lm light will not be best to them. But lumens are a small part, its how its presented to the dark, fugly beams with mickey mouse ears dont look as nice as say a k60 shaved dome…………
Malkoff do maglite drop ins, quite popular so you can still use an old classic and bring it more in to todays outputs if a want.
Malkoff do upgrades, different drop ins of different modes/temps and uses, be it towards floor, or throw…………………very versatile and wont break. Also some are weapon mountable, and fully tested, not on air soft rifles like some chinese brands(dont mean cheap brands either).
So you have your host, in 25yrs time(stick with example) you can slap a new all singing/dancing and illuminating bulb in …………….if you wanted.
Surprising what some police actually use on duty, even the most frugal and least fussy would not entertain some of their lights. Simply because they have no interest, as with any hobby, a varying attitude towards it. As with us all, we all have different priorities in things we buy, decisions we make each time we buy something.
Yep same here when it comes to computers, whats new today is old hat in 6 months.
True, the old incan mag hosts are descent, if you don’t need waterproof. And I still occasionally use my 4xD and 4xC incan maglites, despite the horrible beam artifacts. I sometimes just like the look of a warm incandescent light.
But, oh, all my smaller LED maglites are just awful, awful, lights. Horrible quality, horrible flickering, horrible beams, horrible tint, horrible output, etc, etc. I just can’t say enough bad things about Maglites after the year 2000. They were outdated when they were brand new.
I must admit, i cringe when i turn the solitaire on, its the most horrific 0.5lm orange beam i have seen, yet 25yr back my car key edc was acceptable at the time. Crazy how our taste changes over the years(and tec thank god), and what we perceived as acceptable, now horrendous…………. But it sill has a sentimental feel, one i cant part with. Now and then i use it just for a bit of nostalgia from my boy racer days…………….
And they’re 100 CRI 
Apparently so, although even with a CRI of 100………… its awful to my eye…………
I like to see colours accurate, incan for my eyes turn colours off, either exaggerated or whites turn to beige etc
For a balance the lower cri of the 219C 5000k gives accurate colours for my eyes, the 4500k nichia 219B also
Nice to have choices though, to suit us all
Mall Ninja’s and Boy Racer days.
2 terms not known till now.
THX
:+1:
Yes, for incandescent, it’s all about CCT. The light is just too warm to show blues or even greens very well. A saturated blue often just looks black.
But still, I like the “feel” of incandescent light. Even high CRI LED lights can’t replicate the look of incandescent light.
Even colored incandescent Christmas lights look far superior to colored LED lights. The LED lights just look so cold, or fake, or something that just isn’t right with them.
I agree actually.
Just point your best high CRI 3000K light next to the light spot of a 12V halogen, and the difference is clear.
The halogen light will show off it’s rich redness and make the LED look yellow with a hint of green.
I have some 2700K 95CRI Osram Oslon Square on their way from ebay, but i think they will also be beat by a halogen light.
(Have no ‘normal’ incans anymore to compare with).
LOL That is quite quotable.