There are times when CPF is really really slow to load on my computer. I suspect they have bandwidth issues.
I never really ran into branding trouble there, I just watched their dancings. What I really don’t like is when someone asking for help or trying to bring her/his experimental findings. Suddenly there will be so many “scientist” come out with their own absolute theories fighting each other, hijacked the OP itself.
There are some good fellow in CPF that I really respected for their knowledge and humbleness, but most of them aren’t so active anymore.
If you bring your real world test results, rather than some appreciations of all the hardworks……you’ll get lectured about how wrong you did the experiments yada yada yada…… And more than often, they never really did the criticized experiment themselves! 
You have to follow “the scientist” method, otherwise it’s nothing but a misled experiment.
- Clemence
Heh, okay, I’ll bite:
1. Price. No explanation needed.
2. Shipping cost. $75 USD to ship a single light to Canada. Is it coming via a Brinks truck?
3. CR123 only cells. No rechargeable? This is just like Surefire BS. Those are extremely expensive batteries where I live. My guess is that anyone willing to spend hundreds of dollars on an underpowered light, is probably willing to spend hundreds more to run it.
4. Waiting list.
I’m sure it’s a nice light. It’s just very poor value and poor choice of cells to power it.
1-Price-subjective, high tec, programmable, bullet proof(literally) life time guarantee………………how many cheap fire lights would break in that time, i know what i would depend on if its my life, and its not a $5 light from china as an example.(had experience of several to make that comment).
2- agree, crazy shipping from Henry, can be bought from other sources though for less!
3-Nope, can use rechargeable, 16340/18650, different body options also available to suit user. Yes surefire seem to be over hyped quite a bit, not keen on their newer lights although i like the classics, 6p and c2 etc.
4-Not at the moment, around 2 weeks to a month tops, has been for around 6 months now………But then a waiting list does suggest over demand , and for good reason. Also suggests the sale was poorly organised which was down to henry being over critical on a potential improvement on the rotary system.
It is a nice light, obviously not for everyone which i respect as you should towards the buyers who decide to invest in one. Poor value……………well again subjective, life time guarantee, can be upgraded down the line, potted and fully tested. Will last a life time if not lost……………
I am willing to spend 100’s of $’s on a light yes, but no, i am not willing to spend $100’s on cr123 cells as expensive here in the UK too. So agree on that…………
Sometimes owning a light in question helps make ones mind up, i cant say a light is poor value if i have not actually used one or had experience with it.
Guess a HDS is not for you 
Cant believe all the hate for CPF, yet it seems such a popular topic to talk about…………….
Good points regarding HDS ven. I don’t own one and probably never will, but I’ve only ever heard good things from those that do.
I also scratch my head about all of the vitriol here for CPF. It’s like the class warfare that politicians are always trying to drum up in their supporter base! When you see the word “elite” pop up, that’s what is at play. Because it’s higher end stuff at CPF, there must be someone oppressing someone! A shame because the knowledge base here is incredible.
Thanks hangar, only my opinion and i know its subjective and respect everyone’s views. Here is a friendly place full of highly skilled and innovative members who take a host, make it their own with the latest all singing/dancing components which i envy(in a good way). Such a shame the bitching goes on, if CPF is so bad why not just not bring it up or comment on it. I see no negative rhetoric at CPF towards BLF , its the other way, so to me that says pretty much it all. Vinh hate, a talented guy who does a lot away from modding lights for the homeless and charities………….
I am sure there are many here who have 10s, maybe 100’s of “budget” lights, with components must be $1000’s worth……………If someone wants to spend $1000 on one light, another on 100 lights then so be it, no right or wrong either way imo anyway. We all have a passion for illumination tools, shame we cant move one :+1:
People dislike elitism because it entails arrogance.
Whatever.
Don’t give rat’s azz what’s going on anywhere but HERE.
Waste of time and bandwidth to speak of anywhere else.
You wanna go there, be there, then be there.
If there’s a demand…
I’ve got no experience with HDS lights, so have no idea what makes them so magical. If someone really wanted an HDSish light for half the price or less, I’m sure some mfr could cobble together something, as long as no one skimps on quality.
I don’t mean to just clone an HDS, but to take its best points, and come up with something that’s similar enough in quality to match HDS. That can be harder than it sounds, because how many variations on a black tube can there be?
So…? Thicker battery-tube and case? Ti instead of Al? Mil-spec components for the driver? What makes HDS the Sangraal of flashlights?
Frankly, that’ll always be the case, whenever there’s a movement from a place that’s rather uptight, to a place that’s more laid-back. Doesn’t matter if you work at some broomstick-up-the-bum Wall Street firm and switch jobs to work for someplace more relaxed, or live in a restrictive state where you need permits and licenses just to take a dump, and move somewhere more laissez faire. When going from more-restrictive to less, the ex-pats will always bring it up what a breath of fresh air it is to live/work/whatever in the more relaxed place, where it just doesn’t seem logical to expect those still living in the more restrictive place to grex about the layabouts and outlaws in the less-restrictive place.
Ie, I can’t imagine anyone at CPF grexing about what a lawless unmoderated zoo it is over at BLF. “Yeesh! It’s like ‘anything goes’ over there!! Who could stand it??”
No?
Some useful info on CPF here.
Update: 19-DEC-2016
Please continue to avoid the subject. Thanks.
I admit, I only asked for the connection problem but then lured into the should be avoided subject again. Sorry and peace on earth
Clemence
@Lightbringer: You are talking about Novatac, and it didn’t end well 
But I see your point. Actually 3 years ago entry level HDS was priced at 99$…and it was said that at that price HDS wasn’t making any money on it. Then to solve the backlog issues they switched to more expensive suppliers. Actually I think quality went up in the process, ano is now matching more often, knurling is better, etc. Which at this price point is quite the minimum. Probably the marketing model is far from the best, and from a manufacturing standpoint : small batches, local companies, complex designs (battery tube for example), made in the USA, it add a non negligible cost.
I don’t think HDS are a graal of flashlight, they are very robust and can take a beating, surely have a nice programmable UI (clicky or rotary), they feel solid in the hand…then the driver is not that efficient at low levels, a 18350 tube would be nice, more power too…but at the end, even a 120 lumens HDS (like I had) was more than enough. I don’t know, there’s just something about these lights.
I bought my first one almost by chance, it was a time when they were long and painful to get, and it get to my attention. I read many threads about them, thinking “what a fuss for a ”meh” flashlight”. Still I thought the versatile UI could be interesting, programming too…I picked the closest dealer, registered to get a “back in stock” alert, and forgot about it. Several months later, I was on a work trip, alone in a hotel room one night, and got a mail about an HDS now being in stock, I was bored and thought “why not”! ~125€ and a few days later, my HDS arrived. I wasn’t impressed, the UI was complicated, programming a nightmare, it was delivered without packaging in a plastic bag…plus it was so expensive. I played with it like 5 minutes, and put it in a drawer.
A few weeks/months later, I remembered the HDS, and was feeling guilty about spending so much money for a light, and decided to force me to edc it. Then all the UI took sense, programming was logical and efficient, switching between the 4 modes was intuitive and easy, the beam was great, it was powerful enough, and the included primary lasted a long time! It really grew on me, and suddenly other lights, more powerful lights (the HDS was 120 lumens! 120!!! even for 2012-2013, that wasn’t much) didn’t attracted me that much. The HDS cured my flashaholism for at least a year, it was unimpressive but yet all what I needed, and the light I picked every time I needed one. Don’t judge me wrong, I had maybe 80 lights in my “collection” at that time, and spent many of my free time modding them, trying new stuff, ordering obscure parts on Chinese websites just to see if they could fit or be put to use somewhere…but all of the sudden (and to the great joy of my girlfriend), it was over.
Fortunately, my flashaholism wasn’t over forever, and nowadays I still enjoy modding stuffs, putting new emitters, trying new drivers, otherwise I won’t be there on BLF
But I still liked my HDS, and used it a lot, until it was stolen. Time to order a new one? Definitely. Here, take my kidney, I have another one!
Sorry for the OT, didn’t meant to derail this thread. I’m just here to enjoy my hobby, with people who are here for the same reasons. I deal with nasty people everyday at work, and I don’t want that when I’m not at work. I like relaxing here, talking with interesting and nice people, really nice people around the world, who share the same interests. I had great time with BLF peoples, I had great time with CPF people…I even made some friends, and went to some flashlight meeting with other members, many of them are on both forums
Now there’s definitely things I can’t appreciate with CPF and wish it could be different, but either I look elsewhere, or I go to BLF, or I just buy a new light to compensate the frustration. It is a hobby, and it will stay a relaxing and enjoying hobby.
Cheers to all nice BLFers, and may the arrogant and on CPF or elsewhere go f* themselves.
This is drifting off-topic quite a bit, but that’s what we do here on blf
I do have HDS lights. More than one. They’re really great lights. And honestly I think they’re a good value for the money, as strange as that may sound. I’ve also had more expensive lights that I probably wouldn’t say the same about, but HDS hits a nice sweet spot I think. And yes the demand is there. In fact the demand is so high (and production numbers so low) that many folks wait weeks or months for delivery of their lights. Compare that to someone like McGizmo who will ship you a light in a few hours after ordering, Henry at HDS usually can’t do the same.
Could it be cloned? Yeah probably, at least something kinda close. But to get a light built to the same high standards with all the same features and capabilities still wouldn’t be cheap. And most of those things you mentioned are already in HDS lights. They’re very thick already, almost too thick really - pretty large for a 123-sized light. And they already meet mil-spec standards. In fact HDS has a GHS contract. And they’re not titanium. They’re aluminum. Reliability and function, not flash and bling. That’s not HDSs style. Henry did one run of titanium lights in like 2009ish. He made 100 of them. Occasionally they show up second-hand and they bring about a thousand bucks each lately.
I’m not trying to say everyone should stop all this modding and “budget” stuff and just buy an HDS. I don’t believe that. I own a lot of lights, many of which I built myself. But I also buy some of other people’s work, like Rey, DBCustom, McGizmo, OldLumens — and Henry at HDS. They all make great lights and they all have a place.
I poked through the HDS website, and yeah, they definitely look good. The kinda light I’d make if I wanted a bulletproof light.
I’d just go and buy one, rather than try to DIM.
IMO, what you’re paying for with HDS is consistency. IIRC, they make sure the tint is consistent, and make sure the output is what it claims. And I presume quality control is good.
But if you’re willing to accept a bit of deviation from the specified output or CCT, then there’s way better value to be had from going with a good, but lower priced brand. I have a couple of Armytek lights which have excellent ruggedness specs, and they do seem built like a tank if you need it. And while their UI isn’t exactly what I want, it’s good value at only 20% of the cost of an HDS. Same with Zebralight: way cheaper, good UI, but you play a bit of a tint lottery. Still, if I can buy 5 lights for the same price as 1 HDS, I’m sure I’ll get a tint I want, and still have 4 spares in case one really does get shot with a bullet and doesn’t survive.
And, hey, I actually do like having high output, for the few times I actually need it.
I don’t knock people that buy HDS. It’s their money to do whatever they want with. I just don’t really get it. Then again, most people I know wouldn’t “get” what I spend on Zebralights, SWM, etc. But I don’t rabidly defend those brands. If someone doesn’t like ZL or thinks it’s overpriced, I get it.
Armytek have a terrible rep right now, not only is it 50/50 if you get a good light for a start, then if the LED is centred and only recently due to mass of complaints can you actually return to and deal with Canada/USA. I have the v2.5 pro and yes its a nicely made light, maybe one of the better chinese ano out there. From the v2.5, the v3 have been plagued with issues, insufficient instructions that dont match the light. Then lights sent out and sold yet armytek said they should not have been……………2016 has been a joke for armytek and lost many customers in the process.To compare armytek with HDS is chalk n cheese……………in fact i could not actually think of a worst example lol
So yes, i have experience with AT and although the v2.5 pro is a good light, its no HDS by a good way in QC and warranty, Only last year you had to do videos, send to china……….no thanks! Driver and UI issues, not something you want to depend on if an LEO for example. Then wait weeks for another to arrive…………
This is not isolated either, not 1 or 2 customers(and customers who liked the brand and have many), this has been discussed in many many threads with all getting to poor or none existent QC which they seem to be slowly addressing.
ZL do make some nice lights, high tec for sure, not over keen on the UI side however i dont own so cant comment further. I may get a mkIII at some time in the future to try out.
Each to their own, but until you try a HDS you wont ever get it.
How difficult are they to mod :innocent:
Heh, okay, maybe I’ve been lucky, though more likely I just haven’t been “unlucky”. In any case, since HDS is 5x the price, I’m sure even the unluckiest person wouldn’t get 5 duds in a row.
Besides, I’m only comparing the two brands to show relative value, not trying to say they’re equal quality. HDS may have AT beat on most features (not output or price, but if that’s not important to you, then maybe you don’t care).
I picked zebralight as another brand, because its a better light than armytek, with the exception of ruggedness. But it still seems rugged enough to me… I’ve dropped my ZL sc5w on concrete a few times, and it’s still fine with the exception of some blemishes to the anodizing.
If my life depended on it, I’ve never have just one light anyway. I don’t care how good its reputation is, if I’m in a cave 1000’ from the entrance, I’m going to be dragging at least 3 or 4 lights with me.
Sure, give me one for free, and I’ll give it a shot. Oh, and I want a lifetime free supply of CR123’s to go with it.
Lol. It’s funny that my original post in this thread was to point out how rabid CPF members are at defending HDS. I guess it’s the case everywhere! :person_facepalming:
I was one of those “defending” HDS a few comments ago, but I wanted to jump in and join the Zebralight bandwagon too! All aboard!
Truth is I own more Zebras than HDS lights - a lot more. Zebralights are awesome too. Which goes to the point I made earlier: there’s great lights at most all price points now. We’ve got tons of options to choose from, and that’s great! Nobody should be put down for their choices, whether they choose to spend $10 or $1000, because choice is a good thing.
The older ones were easier to mod. Newer ones are more complicated, but it can still be done. They’re pretty heavily potted so getting them apart cleanly is the hardest part. They’re definitely easier to mod than Zebralights…