Wurkkos TS10 Ti (v2) much more aggressive thermal stepdown compared to regular TS10?

Yes !!! That got rid of the post off AUX on issue. THX.
Who knows, maybe I will turn it back on, but not sure of the utility of it.
But THX so much for saving my sanity on this. :laughing:

AND THX for the diagram. I saved it.

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Yeah, my thoughts as well… and it did come with a diffuser… :japanese_ogre:

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I dont understand the Utility either
If I choose Voltage display Aux, would want them to Stay in Voltage display all the time, not just for 5 seconds.

credit and gratitude for the flowchart goes to @containerfan

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I think there is a 150 lumen ballpark limit for how many Lumens a 33 gram 14500 light can Sustain for 80 minutes.

Aluminium TS10 at 150 lumens at the 80 minute mark:

Aluminium Emisar D2 also at 150 lumens at the 80 minute mark:
Imgur

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Yeah, utility is probably not the right word. Maybe “Coming anywhere near the advertised specs long term” would be better.
The way I use the TS10, the Ti will be fine. Maybe 20 lumens saved memory… maybe 100 max for short periods.
So it’s “utility” will be fine for my use case. I think the point is, notwithstanding, the love displayed around here for it, Ti is not a good material for a flashlight if performance is considered at all. In all, I am glad that I got the Ti TS10. But, I will not be paying a premium for any more Ti lights. At least, as @dmenezes alludes to, this is a relatively cheap way to learn the lesson.

BTW… Thanks to @d_t_a for the runtime graphs !!

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Boo… my 13-year-old iTP EOS A3 AAA-eating light was (and is) capable of running 100lm for short periods (up to a few minutes). :frowning:

Actually, if performance is really that bad, I’m not going to get any more Ti lights even if manufacturers start paying us for using them :slight_smile:

Im not sure we know how big of a Lumen and Runtime difference there is between a Ti and Aluminium TS10 yet… Im hoping zeroair gets a TiTS10 and tests is for us.

I tried to find any other light that comes in both Ti and Al, tested by zeroair

found this:
olight ti warrior3s, 540 lumens for 220 min

olight aluminum warrior3s, 660 lumens for 170 minutes

the runtimes are not equal, so its not really apples to apples, but even so, the Sustainable output of the Aluminium is just 22% greater than the Ti… (the difference would be smaller if the runtimes were equal)

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Don’t take what I said wrong. I am sure the TS10 Ti will do 100 lumens for as long as the battery lasts… I just don’t use it any harder than that. I have lots of lights that will do 300 lumens for a long time. Or 13,000 lumens for longer than I need it. But none that do everything the TS10 does, and disappears into a pocket like it does.

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Thanks for finding & sharing this! I wonder if that Olight uses a 1+FET driver like the TS10… as I understand such a driver can be a significant source of heat, not just the LEDs.

Looking at these graphs, it doesn’t seem too bad: sustained output falls from ~660 on Alu to ~540lm Tit, ie about ~20% reduction. I could live with that.

EDIT: Re: the runtimes, I notice the Tit lasts longer… perhaps it’s because it steps down further due to the heat and, with a correspondingly smaller draw, the battery lasts longer.

Thanks for the clarification. I stand relieved :wink:

I just don’t use it any harder than that. I have lots of lights that will do 300 lumens for a long time. Or 13,000 lumens for longer than I need it. But none that do everything the TS10 does, and disappears into a pocket like it does.

Agreed. The TS10 is my preferred light for these and other reasons, there are none so small and light, and at the same time so versatile.

I agree

I just did a quick test and confirmed that my 4000K TS10 thermally regulates itself to about 180 lumens. That is Level 50.

The host weighs 33 grams…
calculate 180 lumens divided by 33 grams = 5.45 Lumens per gram:

Level 50 produces about 5 Thermally Sustainable Lumens per aluminum host gram, freestanding. The head of the light only feels slightly warm. Thermal limit set to 50C.

1345 Lumen aluminum TS10 Turbo divided by the 33 gram host weight:
40 Lumens per aluminum gram, Unsustainable

concidentally, the 660 Lumen Warrior 3s aluminum host, that weighs 128 grams, has a Sustained output of 5.1 Lumens per gram, similar ballpark to the aluminum TS10.

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The intended use is also the default – it shows voltage on high aux for a few seconds, then drops to low to avoid using too much battery power. Both of them show the voltage color, but it’s much easier to read on high aux. In particular, the purple (4.1V to 4.4V) and yellow (3.3V to 3.5V) ranges are really hard to see on low aux, because the red LEDs are so much dimmer than the others. But on high aux, these colors are much more visible.

The reason why the color changes when the light was used at a high output… is because the battery voltage is lower. The more amps you pull from the battery, the more its voltage sags. Then remove the load, and it recovers… but it takes a few seconds. The aux colors are showing accurate voltage readings, but the voltage changes depending on what you do with the light.

This is most noticeable when turning a TS10 off from turbo, with smooth steps disabled. It’ll often start out red, then cycle up through the rainbow as the battery recovers… because turbo can make the battery sag by an entire volt.

Sometimes even high aux mode is enough load to make the color drop one level.
Like, the boundary between cyan and blue happens at 3.9V. If a battery is at 3.91V, it might sag to 3.89V on aux high mode, causing it to use the cyan color… but when aux drops to low, the battery recovers to 3.91V and aux turns blue. If you see that happen, it’s not a bug. It’s just that the battery voltage recovered after load was removed.

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Direct drive in the TS10 is pointless in my opinion.

The problem is it actually damages the emitters. They start to dim and sections of them burn out. I’ve experienced this in multiple TS10s even when using the manufacturer supplied battery.

To prevent this I recommend completely disabling higher brightness in this light.

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thanks, that makes good sense

so in my case, with a full battery on an Emisar D2 w Aux in Voltage mode, I see purple at rest, and after using the light I see lower voltage colors for a few seconds…

now I understand better, thanks for the detailed explanations… love your work :beer:

I agree.

I disable Turbo in Advanced,

I keep the Advanced default ceiling of 120/150 = 390 lumens.

Thermal regulation works well to drop output to level 50, 176 lumens, within less than a minute. Without getting the light hot.

I also lower the ceiling in Simple Mode to 100/150 = 224 lumens

those are all aluminum figures,
when my RGB Ti TS10 arrives, I will do a comparison output test for levels 50, 100, and 120/150.

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Those who want a small, low-lumen have a wide selection to choose from. The TS10 is for the people who are not happy with those lights. Not all lights are made for all tastes. Some are made to appeal to those whose tastes are a bit outside the mainstream, even when they are impractical.

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Convoy S2+ ti is usable

I vividly remember the post on r/flashlight with the video showing the TS10 emitters literally smoking on turbo; the OP later walked it back and said that under normal condition it wouldn’t happen even with a high-draw battery like the Vapcell H10 I had, but that’s the reason I’ve limited my TS10 to 120 of 150 from day zero; My rationale for keeping it even after the smoking claim was walked back, is that 120 is already more than bright enough, so there’s little reason to risk damage.

Now I see your mention that the TS10 turbo damages the emitters even without smoke, and it’s deja vu all over again… :slight_smile: I’m glad I’ve kept my TS10 limited, I love that little light and would hate to see it damaged.

BTW, I owe both the H10 battery selection and the limiting of 120/150 to u/jon_slider (aka @jon_slider).

I understand you mean “thermally usable”, but for me, to be really useable it would have to come with Anduril, and it doesn’t (“no Anduril, no deal”) :stuck_out_tongue:

BTW, is Simon still stuck with only the s21e carrying Anduril, and that with only Anduril1, an at85 and no flashing pads?

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Ditto. Guess who I’ve learned it from… :grin:

Thermal regulation works well to drop output to level 50, 176 lumens, within less than a minute. Without getting the light hot.

Interesting, I was pretty sure the AluTS10 sustained output was higher.

I also lower the ceiling in Simple Mode to 100/150 = 224 lumens

Here I disable Simple Mode altogether (#undef USE_SIMPLE_UI), if a muggle has my TS10 it’s because he/she stole it from me :joy:

those are all aluminum figures, when my RGB Ti TS10 arrives, I will do a comparison output test for levels 50, 100, and 120/150.

I will be very interested in that, if you can please tag me when you post them so I’ll be sure not to miss.

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true
handheld (or fan cooled) the output goes up about 100 lumens
freestanding uncooled the output is lower than handheld.

The most likely damage would be from free standing, uncooled, starting from Turbo, which is how some people test runtime…

I absolutely do not do Turbo tests, not handheld, and definitely not freestanding uncooled.

I also dont use H10 batteries, I limit myself to 3A discharge rate cells such as the stock Wurkkos cell, the Vapcel L10, and the Vapcel F120 (which has the highest capacity).

All the smoking and damaged TS10 reports were from people testing Turbo w an H10, and uncooled. There were even people that thought it was a thing to do, to hold the light by the tip of the tail, avoiding contact with the too hot head…

Honestly, Turbo at 40 Lumens per gram is just way out of reasonable range, imnsho…

To quantify how Turbo is your Turbo, I think the Lumens per gram metric may be a good way to put things in perspective.

Rule of thumb, 5 lumens per gram is Sustainable, above that, not so much…

Turbo marketting reached its peak with the TS10 and the FWAA. Both have really steep discharge curves in the 40 lumen per gram range… Totally unsustainable.

The TS10 also taught us that Bright Aux have a practical limit… with the TS10 draining a battery in 4 days on Bright Aux…

Im still influenced by my HDS experience… they are limited to 200 Lumens max output… That design runs at a max of just 2 Lumens per gram. It Never gets hot.

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