Wurkkos TS10 Ti (v2) much more aggressive thermal stepdown compared to regular TS10?

LED Flashlights – General Info 1 x AA / 1 x 14500 Flashlights
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Someone mentioned that the new TS10 Ti appears to step down very quickly from Turbo mode, so I did some informal testing.

I have a TS10 Ti (RGB aux) and TS10 (silver-white, not MAO), both 6000k LED.

To keep things more uniform, in the following test, I updated both units to their latest firmware for now (Anduril 2 2023-10-01 from Toykeeper’s Anduril repository)

I also used the same battery (not very high-drain type 14500, so it won’t quickly get too hot), which I charged to full. (was around 4.16v after I got them out from charger.

I also had a small portable fan blowing directly on the TS10 flashlights (I don’t want to accidentally damage the lights)…

I calibratedboth to room temperature (our room temperature is around 31 degrees Celsius accdg to a digital thermomeer, but I cheated a bit and instead set the lights to 27 degrees Celsius) for both units. Then I set the max temperature threshold to +33 (63 degrees Celsius).

I used Zak’s ceilingbounce and positioned one light at a time (light facing the ceiling) to the same position on a small dark room.

I got these results:

Wurkkos TS10 (silver-white, 6000k), set to Advanced UI mode, then double-clicked to Turbo from On:

Wurkkos TS10 Ti (6000k), set to Advanced UI mode, then double-clicked to Turbo from On:

Observation:

On the regular aluminum TS10, there was a gradual drop in brightness which sort of stabilizes at around 50% brightness level, up to 3 minutes.

On the TS10 Titanium, there was a sudden drop somewhere around 45 seconds into the test, and it stayed at a lower brightness level).

While the test was running (near the 3 minutes test I did), I used an IR thermometer (I just had a fairly basic model), pointed at the head of the TS10 (regular), which reads 42 degrees Celsius.

For the TS10 Ti, at the 3 minute mark, the head was reading 33 degrees Celsius (but this was already with lower brightness)… so maybe this isn’t a very correct test. (I don’t have IR thermometer with logging function).

Note the above tests are using a fully-charged but “not-too-high-drain” 14500 battery, and with a small fan pointed directly at the light.

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The following are not-so-controlled testing I did earlier than the above more-controlled testing.

The same 2 TS10 flashlights, but running different firmware version. (the TS10 Ti was updated to 2023-08-29 firmware, whereas the TS10 was using 2023-09-24 firmware when I did this earlier test). I also calibrate the temperature for the lights (to 60 degrees Celsius threshold).

No fan cooling was used.

A more high-drain 14500 battery was used on both units (battery voltage around 3.90v for both), as per battery-check.

TS10 (silver, 6000k) - tested for 3 minutes ( no fan cooling)

TS10 Ti (6000k) (only the 1st minute, no fan cooling)

Without fan cooling the TS10 Ti dropped like a rock, the light quickly becoming very dim.

Observation: the regular TS10 has a more gradual decrease in brightness from Turbo mode, and drops to around 40-50% of max brightness even after 3 minutes.

Whereas the TS10 Ti dropped to around 10% brightness level, within the first minute of Turbo.

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Isn’t this a bit expected when you put high output emitters in a small and worse thermal material host? The original TS10 wasn’t a heatsink king, so Ti isn’t going to improve it in any way.

Thanks for the test though!

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thanks for the charts, very helpful for visualizing the output changes

I think that makes sense…

iow, the TiTS10 is holding the heat inside better, so the thermal sensor is downregulating due to high internal heat

otoh the ALTS10 is moving some of the heat from inside to outside, so the thermal sensor does not see as high an internal temperature

The first thing I would do, is disable Turbo on both lights, because imho, Turbo is a waste of battery and produces excess heat. With turbo disabled, the stock advanced ceiling of 120/150 will limit output to about 400 Lumens, so it makes less heat.

Bear in mind that Simple mode ceiling is higher, and imo should also be reduced… I suggest 110/150, which will cap the output at about 300 lumens, which I believe is a sustainable output (IF the light is not preheated by Turbo).

I would also lower the Thermal Ceiling to 50C, to reduce how hot the interior of the lights get.

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Thank you @d_t_a for the wealth of data on this.

Still diggesting it, but perhaps buying a TiTS10 wasn’t my smartest move usability-wise… :man_facepalming:

@Wurkkos , @Wurkkos_Terry: is there anything you folks can do to alliviate that? eg provide better thermal conductivity by using a larger contact surface between the MCPCB, or put some good-quality thermal grease at that contact surface, etc?

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@SammysHP do you see that same behavior on your prototype?

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Just drill a few holes for airflow. Wait, wait, I know what you’re thinking. Any water that gets in is just going to help even more with cooling.

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In that first TS10 Ti test, it has a sudden large drop. That’s not how the thermal regulation looks. However, it’s exactly how the LVP behaves. When the battery voltage goes below the LVP threshold, it drops suddenly by a large amount.

As for thermal performance in general… titanium really holds heat inside the light. It’s entirely expected that the titanium model will have a lower sustainable level than aluminum or copper.

More generally, I’m not sure the DD FET on the TS10 really even makes sense. The single 7135 chip takes it from 0.1 to ~120 lumens, which is about as much as a light of this size can reliably handle. It might be good to have a second 7135 chip instead of a DD FET, because then it could go up to ~220 lumens when desired… but it’s not very practical to use more than 100 or so most of the time. The 1000+ lumen turbo on the production model is massively overpowered.

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Titanium…We need diamonds here!

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Yeah, right…
:roll_eyes: :rofl:

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That’s auspicios! @d_t_a, any chance your battery was not up-to-par?

I can attest that, just by setting #define DEFAULT_THERM_CEIL 50 on my aluminum TS10, I was able to reach 300 lumens sustained… or at least I think so, as I have no light-measuring equipment.

To what LEVEL does 120 lumens correspond to correspond to, on your (aluminum) TS10?

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Level 49 is 124 lumens on a 4000K TS10

TS10 6000K TS10 4000K TS10 sw45k
Level 120 476 390 339
Level 100 224 176 159
Level 50 172 130 120
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Of course it wasn’t… I debated with myself quite a while. I knew the utility would be inferior… and I already have 5 TS10s (including a copper one). But my obsession kicked in and I ordered one anyway. I got it yesterday. Still need to play with it more. I haven’t made all of the changes that I have in place with the others. I do pretty much what @jon_slider suggests. But about 5/150 set as manual memory level. ~300 lumens MAX is more than I need for this kind of light. But yeah, I do like the Ti, just something about the material and appearance, even with the reduced utility. I have some questions about the way the AUX lights work on this, but those probably are more appropriate for a different thread.

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I dont have my RGB Ti TS10 yet, but I expect the main difference is we can use 7H from off, to cycle through the RGB Aux colors…

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:frowning: Well, I guess then the TiTS10 is going to be my first and only Ti light… nothing against Ti’s good looks, but for me utility beats beauty in every day of the week that ends with an “y”… :slight_smile:

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Yeah I need to paly with it. But , I tried to turn them off, but they still come on when I turn the light off…though just for a few seconds.

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One question: have any of you tried lego’ing the TiTS10 head into a ALTS10 body? Does it fit (ie, Is it the same thread)? If yes, about heat dissipation, does it keep sucking as bad as the pure TiTS10?

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AMEN Brother… :+1:

I have avoided Ti until now… I was right, until this slip.

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I believe that is the Post Off Voltage Display, you can turn it off…
look at the second item on the Voltage Config, at bottom center of this flowchart:
Imgur
I find it confusing, since when I choose Voltage Aux mode, I expect it to show the Voltage all the time, not just for a few seconds after turn off.

Plus the Voltage display is very inconsistent, it changes based on whether the light was used at a high output.

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Yeah, well, best to slip on a $33 TiTS10 (with all the discounts) than on a $70+ like the Ti ones from Hank… :slight_smile:

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