"Group Buy" Interest: Q8 MCPCB for Luxeon V/SST40/XML/XHP50 Emitters

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Agro
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I know that this niche is too small to be worth creating a PCB, but I’ll mention it anyway, just to float ideas that may get useful in another time in another place.
I’d be interested in a PCB created specifically for Luxeon M/MZ/MX.
It would be different from a Luxeon V one in that the pads should be shifted somewhat to the centre and rotated 45°, to focus the reflector on the outermost dies.
This should remove the hole in the middle of the beam, resulting in a nice, bright, small hotspot surrounded by large corona.

djozz
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Great initiative! The Neal route stopped at the point that it became quite confusing already. I do not regret atm to not continue that route.

I hope that someone already has precise dimensions, or else I will open up one of my Q8’s this afternoon.

link to djozz tests 

“I used to think that top environmental problems were biodiversity loss, ecosystem collapse and climate change. I thought that thirty years of good science could address these problems. I was wrong. The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy, and to deal with these we need a cultural and spiritual transformation. And we scientists don’t know how to do that.”   (Gus Speth)

Texas_Ace
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led4power wrote:

It seems no one wants to do it, so after some calculations, I think I could make batch of 4040/5050 boards for 4€/piece + shipping.


2mm thick copper DTP,38mm diameter, 2oz copper layer, gold plated top layer, nickel plated bottom surface (just as good as gold for protection from oxidation and easy to lap/polish).


For “group buy” (single payment,single shipping address) price for 50+ pcs would be just 3€/piece.


This could be good option for USA buyers, to reduce not just PCB price, but I suppose domestic shipping is cheaper too.


For standard orders via my webshop shipping would depend on quantity since these boards will be quite heavy, around 20grams each.


Estimated shipping prices:


Priority airmail (non-tracked):


Up to 50gr  -     1,97€


51 to 100gr  –    2,97€


101 to 250gr  -  5,97€


250 to 500gr  -  9,97€


 


Registered airmail (tracked):


Up to 50gr  -     3,97€


51 to 100gr  –    4,97€


101 to 250gr  -  7,97€


250 to 500gr  -  12,97€


 


Packaging envelope is 10-20gr.


Since I don’t own Q8 (not a fan of sup cans), I will need help with exact dimensions, I’m also a little bit confused regarding screws,some pcb renderings have it,others don’t.


I would like to see interest, around 100pcs would be minimum, I think current list is close to that.


4040 footprint is compatible with Luxeon V, and Luxeon MZ,Luxeon MX,  5050 for SST-40,XHP50 etc.


I will have boards with 4000K Luxeon V soldered as option,of course.


Luxeon MZ is available as 3V LED and 5700K 90CRI at Mouser and Digikey.

Good to hear someone is picking this up, I still want to put xhp50.2’s in mine.

Far as the pcb design goes, the final design I made should be what you need. The earlier designs were based around the prototype Q8’s and are not relevant anymore obviously.

PM me if you would like help with this, I have the source files around here someplace.

Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety.

The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. --Herbert Spencer , English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT - XHP70.2 P2 - XHP50.2 J4 - Samsung LH351D

Easy comparison tool for all my LED tests

vinte77
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I would be in for 2 of these boards.

Jtm94
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led4power I appreciate your initiative A LOT! I’ve been waiting and hoping for this to gain traction, but after it being quiet and having no convenient way to split things up amongst ourselves I was growing worried.

shirnask
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You can add me for 2 more boards (total of 4)

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Texas_Ace wrote:

Good to hear someone is picking this up, I still want to put xhp50.2's in mine. Far as the pcb design goes, the final design I made should be what you need. The earlier designs were based around the prototype Q8's and are not relevant anymore obviously. PM me if you would like help with this, I have the source files around here someplace.

 

Thanks, but I only need LEDs/screw holes etc. positions, I will make gerbers according to my manufacturer spces/rules.

 

 

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Should I open new Interest thread? Because I'm not sure how relevant is current list, there is possibility some members gave up after lack of activity in this thread.

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led4power wrote:

Should I open new Interest thread? Because I’m not sure how relevant is current list, there is possibility some members gave up after lack of activity in this thread.


I think that if the board is available, people who are in the list will just pick up their Q8 and start modding it. And I think that with the first succesful mod come new people buying the ledboard. Especially with ready mounted Luxeon V’s, the mod is doable for many many people: instant 8000 lumen in good tint (well, if the center pieces are succesfully reamed Innocent ).

I guess I will have to unsolder the ledboard on one of my Q8’s and do some measurements on the hole positions. In TA’s design the two small screw holes were dismissed because they did not fit in the 4040/5050 double design, but who knows you can squeeze them in.

link to djozz tests 

“I used to think that top environmental problems were biodiversity loss, ecosystem collapse and climate change. I thought that thirty years of good science could address these problems. I was wrong. The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy, and to deal with these we need a cultural and spiritual transformation. And we scientists don’t know how to do that.”   (Gus Speth)

Agro
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Would it make sense (or even be possible) to use rotated LED pads?

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I hope Lazy-R-us can update list because last update was on 01/01/2018.

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All fresh measurements on a production Q8 board:

link to djozz tests 

“I used to think that top environmental problems were biodiversity loss, ecosystem collapse and climate change. I thought that thirty years of good science could address these problems. I was wrong. The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy, and to deal with these we need a cultural and spiritual transformation. And we scientists don’t know how to do that.”   (Gus Speth)

led4power
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Thanks!

What are those two smaller center holes for?

djozz
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led4power wrote:

Thanks!


What are those two smaller center holes for?


They are for the led wires.

The two small holes further out screw the board onto the shelf in the first production run, in the later production run they allow longer screws from the underside of the shelf through the ledboard into the reflector (clamping the board between reflector and shelf). In both cases they prevent twisting of the board when closing the bezel. If you leave those holes out, clamping of the ledboard to the shelf is leftover to the bezel, while risking twisting the board with closing the head. It will work but it requires some care when closing the head.

link to djozz tests 

“I used to think that top environmental problems were biodiversity loss, ecosystem collapse and climate change. I thought that thirty years of good science could address these problems. I was wrong. The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy, and to deal with these we need a cultural and spiritual transformation. And we scientists don’t know how to do that.”   (Gus Speth)

led4power
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Central hole is used to clamp PCB+reflector to body?

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led4power wrote:

Central hole is used to clamp PCB+reflector to body?


Central hole is “only” to coamp PCB + Reflector together. The body/shelf diameter is much bigger.
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I thought I can rotate LEDs around PCB center so I can fit both 4040 and 5050 on one PCB without interfering with screws, but I can't because screw cavities in reflector allow for only one position (45deg).

There is one solution - using flat countersunk screws for PCB clamping, is that ok?

That means pcb must have countersunk holes, but I think it's doable by factory.

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Except that in all but the first 500 Q8’s the holes in the shelf do not have threads.

Edit: the first 500 may not have threads either but the screws were just forced in.

Edit2: can someone else help out further?, I’m rather sick atm, need stop doing things for a while.

link to djozz tests 

“I used to think that top environmental problems were biodiversity loss, ecosystem collapse and climate change. I thought that thirty years of good science could address these problems. I was wrong. The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy, and to deal with these we need a cultural and spiritual transformation. And we scientists don’t know how to do that.”   (Gus Speth)

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Interest list updated. Current to here.

led4power, thank you for looking into this and hopefully taking it on!

firedome, how many boards are you interested in? You have a post at 60

firedome wrote:
Interested in 1
and a post at 88 :
firedome wrote:
Interested in 1

You are currently in the list for one.

Lazy-R-us

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djozz wrote:
Except that in all but the first 500 Q8’s the holes in the shelf do not have threads.

Edit: the first 500 may not have threads either but the screws were just forced in.

Edit2: can someone else help out further?, I’m rather sick atm, need stop doing things for a while.


For the first 500 flashlights, the Screws holds the MCPCB on the shelf/head of the Flashlight.
On all other Q8, the Screws go throu the shelf, the MCPCB and screw into the reflector.

I would say, do not care about the first 500 (I have two of them and one later Q8) and make 4 holes near the LED-Pads.
For the first 500 everyone have to find a solution, e.g. with countersink screws, or without screws (clamping all together with an adapter/old mcpcb over the centerscrew of the reflektor).

Texas_Ace
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led4power wrote:

I thought I can rotate LEDs around PCB center so I can fit both 4040 and 5050 on one PCB without interfering with screws, but I can’t because screw cavities in reflector allow for only one position (45deg).


There is one solution – using flat countersunk screws for PCB clamping, is that ok?


That means pcb must have countersunk holes, but I think it’s doable by factory.

Yep, same thing I found when trying to keep the screw holes. That is why we decided it was best to just leave them out.

Sadly we never did find a good option for keeping the screw holes and the double footprints. The dual footprint doubles the market for the mcpcb’s so that was important.

The best option was to use a washer and a longer center screw to sandwich the reflector, mcpcb and shelf all together. This is ideal IMHO.

You could even sell the washer and longer screw with the mcpcb to make it super simple.

This is what I would do if I were you, I prefer the reflector provide the clamping force anyways, it is a more even pressure.

Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety.

The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. --Herbert Spencer , English Philosopher (1820-1903)

Texas Avenger Driver Series

My LED Test series - XP-L2 V5  - Nichia 219C 90+ CRILatticebright "XM-L"XHP35 & PWM efficiency - XHP50 - XP-L V5 - XM-L2 U2 - XP-G3 S5  - XP-L HI V2 - Oslon Square & direct comparison to Djozz tests - Nichia 319A - Nichia 219B 9080 CRI - Nichia 219C D320 - Nichia 229AT - XHP70.2 P2 - XHP50.2 J4 - Samsung LH351D

Easy comparison tool for all my LED tests

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I was on the list for two boards, I’m still interested.
If both footprints are not on the same board, I would like 1 board for 4040 and 1 board for 5050.

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@led4power, here’s a picture of how it looks inside the later runs Q8.

link to djozz tests 

“I used to think that top environmental problems were biodiversity loss, ecosystem collapse and climate change. I thought that thirty years of good science could address these problems. I was wrong. The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy, and to deal with these we need a cultural and spiritual transformation. And we scientists don’t know how to do that.”   (Gus Speth)

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 Thanks djozz, but what is purpose of big central screw in this version? Two small screws clamp everything anyway?

Currently, I see 3 solutions to dual footprint-screws interference problem:

  1. Using only central screw and washer like TA said, problem is that it doesn't protect pcb from twisting,
  2. Making separate  mosX pcbs for 4040 and 5050, but they are 1.55mm tall, would be that a problem?
  3. Making just 4040 Cu DTP version, but I'm not sure about percentage of people form list that want 4040 vs 5050?

Do XM-L size LEDs fit without reflector modifications?

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Big screw clamps reflector to pcb from backside.
Reflector openings are 6.5mm (according to the drawings from CAD files that were shared by Miller).

Need a vlogger for machine accessories reviews

djozz
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led4power wrote:

 Thanks djozz, but what is purpose of big central screw in this version? Two small screws clamp everything anyway?


Currently, I see 3 solutions to dual footprint-screws interference problem:



  1. Using only central screw and washer like TA said, problem is that it doesn’t protect pcb from twisting,

  2. Making separate  mosX pcbs for 4040 and 5050, but they are 1.55mm tall, would be that a problem?

  3. Making just 4040 Cu DTP version, but I’m not sure about percentage of people form list that want 4040 vs 5050?


Do XM-L size LEDs fit without reflector modifications?


That big screw does not much, except fixing the ledboard to the reflector, in the first run it probably helped fixing things in place during assembly to prevent shearing off leds. It is something that Thorfire came up with, it was not how I designed it in the first place and we just left it because we could not see harm. And now it comes handy to fix the whole thing with the washer if the small screw holes are left out. I think that will work fine without twisting becoming a problem.

The reflector base is a bit wider than the cavity in which the MCPCB sits. That cavity is 2.2mm deep, so the 2.0mm board is sunken in by .2 mm. The base of the center pieces is .5 mm, so you have .3 mm room to play with, a bit less because the reflector is clamping on the centerpieces, squeezing them slightly I guess. In any case, you will not get away with a 1.55mm MCPCB.

I guess no one has checked the fitment of XM-L leds before? I just did: by just a bit a XM-L does not fit the reflector holes. But the fix is easy if you have a reamer (a few dollars on Banggood gets you a reamer thst does this job fine).

This is the stock reflector opening that does not fit an XM-L2:

Some light reaming makes it look like this:

Now a standard XM-butterfly centerpiece fits and the reflector is XM-L2 ready.

link to djozz tests 

“I used to think that top environmental problems were biodiversity loss, ecosystem collapse and climate change. I thought that thirty years of good science could address these problems. I was wrong. The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy, and to deal with these we need a cultural and spiritual transformation. And we scientists don’t know how to do that.”   (Gus Speth)

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Buck drivers ready

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djozz wrote:

That big screw does not much, except fixing the ledboard to the reflector, in the first run it probably helped fixing things in place during assembly to prevent shearing off leds. It is something that Thorfire came up with, it was not how I designed it in the first place and we just left it because we could not see harm. And now it comes handy to fix the whole thing with the washer if the small screw holes are left out. I think that will work fine without twisting becoming a problem. The reflector base is a bit wider than the cavity in which the MCPCB sits. That cavity is 2.2mm deep, so the 2.0mm board is sunken in by .2 mm. The base of the center pieces is .5 mm, so you have .3 mm room to play with, a bit less because the reflector is clamping on the centerpieces, squeezing them slightly I guess. In any case, you will not get away with a 1.55mm MCPCB. I guess no one has checked the fitment of XM-L leds before? I just did: by just a bit a XM-L does not fit the reflector holes. But the fix is easy if you have a reamer (a few dollars on Banggood gets you a reamer thst does this job fine)...

What is the size of central screw,and what washer dimension would be optimal?

If others don't have anything against, this could be solution, which means boards will not have 2 smaller screw holes.

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No one has tried this solution yet, will do some fiddling and come back to this..

link to djozz tests 

“I used to think that top environmental problems were biodiversity loss, ecosystem collapse and climate change. I thought that thirty years of good science could address these problems. I was wrong. The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy, and to deal with these we need a cultural and spiritual transformation. And we scientists don’t know how to do that.”   (Gus Speth)

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Ok, I hacked something together. I figured a washer would require making extra holes for the wires anyway, so I made it a piece of aluminium 35×10×3mm with a 4mm hole in the middle, well, not really in the middle, it was a quick hack Innocent


The screw is M4, and from the back of the shelf to decently screwed in the hole in the reflector (there is a bit more than 3mm deep working threading in the reflector so you have some play) you need 16mm of threading (so the threaded part needs to be 16mm + the thickness of your washer/piece). In place it looks like this and I must say it works fine: after fixation like this, the closing of the bezel does not move anything anymore. But this was without thermal paste, that may slide a bit better. Still, I think it works.

link to djozz tests 

“I used to think that top environmental problems were biodiversity loss, ecosystem collapse and climate change. I thought that thirty years of good science could address these problems. I was wrong. The top environmental problems are selfishness, greed and apathy, and to deal with these we need a cultural and spiritual transformation. And we scientists don’t know how to do that.”   (Gus Speth)

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