hmmm then it’s strange the SST20 is less throwy than D4S XPG2 .
Maybe it’s to do with bad optic ?
i also notice the centre hot spot E07 is abit dark (like donut shape) in long distance.
[♛ FreemeGB] Fireflies PL47 Gen II 4*XP-L/ Nichia/ SST20 Hi CRI 21700 Right Angle Flashlight - ENDED
The throwiness of a light is a combination of the emitter and the optic. Sometimes one emitter will be throwier, sometimes another… and this changes depending on which optic is used. There is no hard rule that emitter X will always be more throwy than emitter Y, because it’s only part of the equation.
Admittedly, a larger emitter will usually be floodier… but when two LEDs are closer to the same size, it’s not unusual for them to trade places on a throwiness ranking depending on which optic they’re in.
It’d be nice if cd/lm was part of the ANSI standard flashlight metrics, and this value was measured on sustainable medium modes to maximize accuracy. Simply dividing the maximum cd by the maximum lm doesn’t always give representative results, especially if one is taken at 30s and one at turn-on.
It’s still unclear why some Canadians received regular China Post ePacket tracking numbers while others received what seem to be German registered mail tracking numbers. Were some shipments consolidated in Germany first? Have they actually been sent to Canada yet? I’ve asked a few times with no real answer.
Same thing. They should’ve shipped via China Post instead.
As you said, I think they never shipped back to Canada. They are probably still waiting in a shipping warehouse.
If you can, please post a picture of the D4S next to the E07.
Thank you!!! 
On the D4S the SST-20 is only out-thrown by Oslon/Osram emitters:
XP-G2 S4 : 3300lm / 40,000cd
Nichia 219C : 3000lm / 20,000cd
XP-L HI : 4300lm / 45,000cd
XP-L HD : 5100lm / 27,000cd
SST-20 6500K: 4200lm / 58,000cd
SST-20 5000K: 4000lm / 55,000cd
SST-20 4000K/3000K 95CRI: 3000lm / 41,000cd
If you meant that the XP-G2 is throwier in the D4S compared to the SST-20 in the Fireflies lights that’s because the D4S is afforded much more space for the optic for each emitter and can be much throwier because of that. Even then, the PL47 uses a 15 degree optic while the E07 and ROT66 use 25 degree IIRC which makes them at least as floody as the frosted version of the D4S using the same emitters from what I’ve seen.
I am talking about candelas, not lumens.
Lumens are relatively unimportant to me (and only quantifiable with calibrated exotic measurement tools, integrating devices etc. which I do not possess, nor have a real use for).
It is how those lumens are focussed that is all important. Which I find easy enough to “eyeball” in side-by-side comparisons under field conditions.
To see things at night you need candelas on the area of interest, and clearly (to me) the throwier D4S with only 4 emitters does a better job than the floody 7 emitter device, at these back garden ranges. Presumably with much better run time and thermal performance, despite any theoretical efficiency improvement of the 7 emitters, when throttled back. But bear in mind that both these torches are basic PWMed FET direct drive at the higher levels, so “efficiency” will not be their strength.
Agreed, for outdoors, a throwier beam is also my preference.
If your use-case is shorter range, full flood, for brief bursts, then the E07 might be for you.
It would be simple enough for someone with a lux meter to measure the beam profile at say 10 metres distance, and show how uniform, or otherwise, it is, and whether the centre is brighter than elsewhere.
It has to be done at a reasonable distance, just shining at a white wall or ceiling can be very deceptive.
Then there is the question of how long these outputs can be sustained, I am much more interested in how things look after at least 5 minutes, even 30, then overall usable duration. Rarely reported in reviews here, but one of the most important details to me. And so simple to measure.
I actually use my torches, rather than just flash them around in brief bursts for amusement, and I presume the idea of choosing 26650 or 21-70 cells is for longer run-times. Or because it is supposed to be the next great thing, obsoleting 18650s (once some sort of agreement on dimensions happens) ? Or is it just for higher peak current capability for headline “MaxPower” advertising numbers ? In which case they over-did that on the PL47, as we now know.
Sure sounds to me like you think everyone wants exactly what you want.
No, I didn’t set myself up to be troll. Nor a controversialist. Nor a pea-brained Sycophant who likes to constantly tell us that “alles ist gut”, from a position of no information.
These things obviously have their capabilities, and also some obvious problems. That could be mostly
be overcome, with some directed effort.
In design, manufacture, delivery, and performance. Not unexpected
Discussing the pros, and cons, should not be controversial, but it seems that a few here just do not understand robust debate. Or even mild criticism, from an informed position.
Clearly FF are struggling to crack the next stages. I hope that they can make it, even deliver product to us in a timely manner, but the fundamentals, as I see it, just are not there. Just chucking together a mish-mash of out-dated technology into a pretty looking but implausible package has not yet convinced me.
Tom Tom
I’m not so sure about that. BurningPlayd0h has a point. In my case YOU need more information.
What do you use YOUR torches for? Did you ever stop to think that some of us may want need short/”brief bursts” for other reasons (and there are many) other than “amusement”?
@Nicolicous is there any chance you could compare D4S lux to E07? It would be super helpful for me as I’m trying really hard to decide which one I should get…
Pros and cons would really be nice. That would be fantastic, in fact—and we have already talked about this. I dont think anyone here would find pros and cons controversial. A subjective, opinionated diatribe on the things one dislikes, some bits about the light which is the context of this thread and sometimes just to share a bitterness with most things in general…
This is not capturing the spirit of pros and cons, just and only the latter, i’m afraid.
I dont know for sure, but perhaps this is simply a deficit of understanding, or even possibly a learning disability, or maybe just a miniaturized version of a particular skillset almost everyone else has. Which makes me a little sad now that i think about it: maybe its just an inherent incapability of objectivity. Which would certainly make, one afflicted with this condition, very unhelpful in most matters that require or expect objective analysis—assuming of course, that my supposition is true. I cant say for sure, but there seems to be an overwhelming abundance of evidence piling up to support this hypothesis, radical theory.
And i would extend my encouragement to look up the word debate—just for fun, because there seems to be just a slight—maybe—lets just call it a blindspot, when it comes to the meaning. Hint: A debate is not had by one man yelling to himself in a crowd. Normally, that guy holds a piece of cardboard, and people give him pocket change.
I have heard that most city folks have learned to ignore this man. But alas— and unfortunately, i was raised in a place with more trees.
Hence, my confusion on the matter.
The brief bursts comment can clearly be applied to many newer lights on the market - they copied what we've been doing here on BLF for years - modding them for these high bursts that we want. Again, makes us wonder about this comment and why singling out this one light, one manufacturer. Imalent, AceBeam, Emisar are doing the same thing.
I can understand some people have no interest in these high performance lights, they just want to turn it ON, run it on one steady output level till the battery goes dead. That's fine, and this light can do that, just set it to a lower level of output - very simple solution, and could be said for most of these high performance lights.
To criticize the choice of using 21700's is another ridiculous criticism -- we are the ones demanding it, so you criticize ff for it when in fact you are criticizing the BLF community.
Tom Tom - we demanded a light like the PL47 and we got it. Sure it's not perfect, has quality issues, but your criticisms go beyond that.
Day 46, no PL47 in Canada.
There are plenty of criticisms to be made of the PL47, namely the questionable battery tube dimensions and output not matching specs for all emitters but to say fundamental qualities that people asked for in the light are “problems” just… makes no sense to me.
Order placed. Thank you!
Nothing here yet. I’ll be surprised if the light arrives before the headband. All of my online Xmas shopping (eBay, AliExpress, etc) and Mnt Elec orders that were placed after my Fireflies orders have arrived already.
Same thing here.
Everything arrived, including my 21700 order that was shipped one week after the PL47 got shipped.
I’m now tempted to send an email to Fireflies speaking about the shipper they used for shipping. China Post would’ve been here already.