Haikelite SC26 *** CLOSED For U.S.A. and Canadian Customers only*** Haikelite cut me off at 100 units so GB is closed.

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mattheww1950
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Actually I believe all new disputes with Terry are now escalated automatically to claim almost immediately.

Dirty_Pierre
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As I stated in post number 698
I don’t know who’s telling the truth or what transpired exactly between HL and TW.
I have my suspicions as we all do.

It doesn’t matter in regards to a refund.

The fact of the matter is that like it or not, Terry White / He Said She Said Sales received the payment and is legally obligated to provide the product/service or a refund in a timely manner. Even if he actually did send payment to HL for the SC26 order and can prove it, it still does not matter. (statements by both concerned parties contradict this happening) PayPal will side with the buyer when he can’t provide proof that he shipped and delivered the product.

I’m certain an attorney will advise him of same.
(It might not be the us attorney general Facepalm )
The rest of his comments and claims (some highly offensive and unprofessional) are just “noise” as someone else pointed out.

Dirty_Pierre
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saypat wrote:
cellguy wrote:
saypat wrote:
in our Paypal claims, they are giving Terry something like 12 days to contact Paypal. It appears, at least in my case, he isn’t going to do that ….. at least he hasn’t responded in 6 days so far. And I recall him saying that he was replying to every ones correspondence Smile

if all your life u remain with a clear conscience you need never fear a knock at the door at midnight…

You will want to manually escalate it to a claim if you have not done that already.


I escalated it on day 1. Paypal is waiting to hear from him, they give him 12 days. I don’t imagine they will hear from him, or other’s claims. I’ll keep the Forum up to date as I was probably one of the earlier cases….

I also did the same, I initially simply requested refund, and then I read his FB comments and immediately escalated. He has until the 12th until PayPal makes the decision for him. I will update as well when I hear from PayPal.

Newlumen
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I sent email to terry if i can get refund for my sc26gb.. no email replied in 2 business days.. so i filed a paypal dispute yesterday…

Any problems should be between him and haikelite..

I am not in a retail business, but it is common sense.. if the customers asked for a refund which they havent received , then you do the refund.

Sorry about grammar..

SKV89
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Dirty_Pierre wrote:
Even if he actually did send payment to HL for the SC26 order and can prove it, it still does not matter. (statements by both concerned parties contradict this happening)
It's actually very clear cut. Theres no contradiction here between both parties. The only contradiction is between Terry's own statements. His past statements said money went to HL, but after HL said he didnt, Terry admitted he didnt pay and not going to refund to the SC26 GB participants because of his ludicrous attempt at a justification that HL owes him $5,700 for his warranty service on 60 MT09R flashlights bought from the MT09R group buy. None of us MT09R GB participants actually received any warranty service from him.

 

Just for fun ("post 346":http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1308029#comment-1308029 ), here's one instance in the past when Terry claimed the money was sent to HL already, when he refused a refund for the SC26

Haikelite USA Official wrote:
Your refund was not refused. Your money has already been sent to the factory along with everyone else that made a purchase.

 

DO NOT CALL MY HONESTLY INTO QUESTION.

shirnask
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saypat wrote:


I escalated it on day 1. Paypal is waiting to hear from him, they give him 12 days. I don’t imagine they will hear from him, or other’s claims. I’ll keep the Forum up to date as I was probably one of the earlier cases….

Please do so and thank you.

Uriah
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I to have filed a claim for refund.

CNCman
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I have a question, “How will PayPal view any future Group Buys for items not already in production” or do they even care.
Just curious how or if GB’s in the future for new or prototype flashlights will be affected as a result of all the refund requests.

CNC & Manual Machinist. Think outside the box too long , cannot find your way back in.

Good Intentions are no guarantee for Good Results.

mattheww1950
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I would be very surprised if PayPal knows or even cares. The reality is that this involves about $3200. If you go from PayPal’s 2017 annual report, that represents about the revenue PayPal gets every 7 seconds. It isn’t even large enough to even be a rounding error! While it may be a big deal for some of us, for PayPal it is considerably less than peanuts in the big picture. Remember that no matter what happens, PayPal generally gets to keep their fees in the transaction. No doubt PayPal considers this a nuisance, but that’s really all it is for them. Even if they end up having to refund from their own pockets (which I don’t think they have to do, or will do), it is less than a drop in the bucket. Last year PayPal made just over $2 billion.

hIKARInoob
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Dirty_Pierre wrote:
The rest of his comments and claims (some highly offensive and unprofessional) are just “noise” as someone else pointed out.

The technical term is “white noise”.

heatwaves
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SKV89 wrote:

Dirty_Pierre wrote:

DO NOT CALL MY HONESTLY INTO QUESTION.

The ones who are the most indignant about questioning their honesty or who are unreasonably outraged at being accused of lying are usually the ones you have to watch out for.

Trust me. I am one of the most honest people ever. Wink (see what I did there?)__

But seriously, reliving that refund refusal shows the type of mentality we were dealing with. A typical business man would have refunded the $32 even if he’d already sent bulk payment to Haikelite, simply because he’d know that he could easily re-sell it for the non-group buy price of $54 (or whatever it was going to go for). But he didn’t refund because he knew that nothing was coming and there’d be nothing to re-sell.

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heatwaves wrote:
The ones who are the most indignant about questioning their honesty or who are unreasonably outraged at being accused of lying are usually the ones you have to watch out for.

I always wondered how you could tell if someone’s lying, other than their pants being on fire.

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Man Without Shadow
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Just a consideration…

I get the impression this was more “clumsy” than malicious…in that I don’t see the “seller” as wringing his hands maniacally plotting how to enrich his life with a measly $3200. If anything, he cost himself more than that in future sales and reputation.

As I’ve read EVERYTHING carefully, I get the feeling this was more of a hail Mary attempt to float some funds that went south on him…choking on “too big of bite” in the retail flashlight game—a confounding factor was Haikelite being unable or unwilling to float the merchandise or funds and/or assume risk (as is their choice to make). Certainly relying on an Asian manufacturer and an overseas postal service is much more difficult and expensive than going to a Sam’s Club, buying some bulk items and reselling them.

I am not condoning the practice, merely describing it. His replies and demeanor certainly did not engender good will or understanding either. It’s his bed, and he will have to lie in it.

In spite of the bad practices, I can empathize with a person trying to strike out, make some investments, manage their own business and get caught up in a desperate situation they were probably not expecting that quickly became “unfun” and costly. I hope people in similar situations—that were not acting in malice—but perhaps the victims of their own miscalculations can find peace in the world. I hope his home life and financial situation does not take too big of hit for this…at least not bigger than the money we are all out.

I would want anyone in a similar situation to still be able to keep a roof over the head of their families and food on their table. I suspect the “seller” beats himself up for it on a frequent basis as is. His comments, defenses and anger all show his pain…and for that I am sorry he has created this situation for himself and didn’t successfully plot his course at the expense of others.

The end result for the buyers is the same though of course, and buyers should exercise whatever recourse they need to.

Stupid and evil are two sides of the same coin…

Peace to all, and I hope everyone receives the funds they proffered in good faith.

When I'm spending money foolishly, I like to do it wisely...

I have all the flashlights I need, but not as many as I want...

BlueSwordM
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I do understand too.

Had he not ignored the thread while posting on the MT09R thread and made a racist remark, I bet everybody would be much less worked up.

beam0
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.
Didn’t I read in one of HL’s posts that Terry did finally make payment (or half/partial payment) for these GB lights?

If that’s the case then HL should have stepped in and offered to send out the lights to “save face” even if a at slight loss.
Even if they got half the money it wouldn’t really take deep pockets to take the loss (around $1500?) Then they can go after Terry for the balance or if he owes more for other inventory.

I would be inclined to think that would have been a better business decision as opposed to the risk of bad publicity within the flashlight community. For that small sum they could have turned this around for themselves and came out smelling like a rose.

I think that would have made most of the GB participants happy even if they had to wait longer for the light to go in production with the upgraded components. IMO people would love them for that and remember it, including any prospective future customers reading about this ordeal (which may actually outnumber the GB participants). You almost couldn’t get better publicity even if you paid an equal amount for advertisements.

I understand a company cannot do this for every dealer that didn’t pay their bill and stiffed customers on their orders, but maybe a good decision in this case, where the whole thing unfolded on a public forum that’s devoted to the very products the make.

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SKV89
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beam0 wrote:
.
Didn’t I read in one of HL’s posts that Terry did finally make payment (or half/partial payment) for these GB lights?

I reread HL’s statement and it says Terry didn’t pay for his last two orders, which included 30 MT09Rs. But I’m sure Terry sold more than 30 MT09Rs from his store so I think the post you are referring to (if it was indeed unadulterated) probably says he paid for his first order of flashlights for HesaidShesaid store, but these are not the SC26. I don’t think HL is even ready with their SC26 to make any promises at this moment and their financial situation is in pretty bad shape from the rumors.

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Man Without Shadow wrote:
Just a consideration…

I agree. I also believe Terry didn’t start out with any malicious intents and was truly excited with his cooperation with HL. However, HL underdelivered the MT09R, which hurt the brand image and significantly reduced potential sales at his webstore. Shortly after there were rumors that HL was in poor financial shape and about to go bankrupt. Terry later received a prototype sample of the SC26 and it did not meet specs. With all these issues, Terry probably decided to plot his escape from this sinking ship and take as much with him as possible. However, this was done unethically, and he was using one lie to cover another, until there were so many lies that he couldn’t even keep track of them and his bubble finally bursts.

I admit I was upset when I first found out I was supporting a con man but later I realize we are talking very small dollar amount (somewhat more for HL’s losses) and the guy needs to feed his family and pay the bills like the rest of us. Therefore I bear no ill will towards him and definitely hope Terry and his family can still maintain a roof over their heads and food on their table. I’m no longer upset, and instead find it amusing looking back at some of his old posts before his bubble popped just for laughs. Sorry Silly

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So it’s OK to defraud if it’s only $32. Got it. Thumbs Up

I’m sorry Terry got into a bad spot, but his consistent lies about shipped product is intentional fraud.

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I need to do a group buy to make some money to pay my bills… Who wants to join Silly

SKV89 wrote:
Man Without Shadow wrote:
Just a consideration…

I agree. I also believe Terry didn’t start out with any malicious intents and was truly excited with his cooperation with HL. However, HL underdelivered the MT09R, which hurt the brand image and significantly reduced potential sales at his webstore. Shortly after there were rumors that HL was in poor financial shape and about to go bankrupt. Terry later received a prototype sample of the SC26 and it did not meet specs. With all these issues, Terry probably decided to plot his escape from this sinking ship and take as much with him as possible. However, this was done unethically, and he was using one lie to cover another, until there were so many lies that he couldn’t even keep track of them and his bubble finally bursts.

I admit I was upset when I first found out I was supporting a con man but later I realize we are talking very small dollar amount (somewhat more for HL’s losses) and the guy needs to feed his family and pay the bills like the rest of us. Therefore I bear no ill will towards him and definitely hope Terry and his family can still maintain a roof over their heads and food on their table. I’m no longer upset, and instead find it amusing looking back at some of his old posts before his bubble popped just for laughs. Sorry Silly

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Update:

I changed the Haikelite USA Official account name to NOT Haikelite USA Official and disabled it.

The Terry White account is also disabled now.

Thread closed.

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