Coronavirus discussion thread

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sb56637
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raccoon city wrote:

I got permission from sb to make one post in this thread, as long as it isn’t controversial in nature.


I want to apologize for making insults and accusations.


I will try much harder not to insult or accuse people in the future.


So, once again, I am sorry, and I will try to do better.


(Now it’s time for me to delete a bunch of posts in this thread, as per sb’s directions.)

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sb56637
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phouton wrote:
sb56637 wrote:
please use this thread exclusively for discussing personal experiences with the Coronavirus and non-controversial news.

To be fair, controversial subjects were always against BLF rules.

Exactly, under normal circumstances I would have closed this thread a long time ago. But it’s just such a massive event that has affected all of our lives in one way or another, and even if I were to close this thread I’m sure the topic would pop up elsewhere. At least here all the moderation difficulties are all in one place. Plus it feels kind of insensitive to the humanity to blanket-prohibit the entire topic. There have to still be personal experiences and news items that aren’t controversial, I think we can all agree that being sick and/or being out of work is a Bad Thing™. A lot of the stats and studies are also very interesting, if not necessarily accurate.

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Rexlion wrote:
Anywhere from 6:1 to maybe 24:1? If those estimates mean anything (and they’ve been done in enough states to support the overall thought), most people who get the virus never feel very ill; a lot of them probably never knew they had it.

Entirely possible. I know people who’ve just been “feeling down”, low energy, etc., so who knows if they didn’t pick up some bugs, fight ‘em off, and recover without even knowing they caught anything.

Hell, on a coupla occasions (before the heat kicked in), I fell asleep on the covers vs under ‘em, and woke up shivering, like actual full-body shivering. Got under the covers, eventually stopped shivering, fell back to sleep, woke up fine the next day.

Funny thing is, I hadn’t even gone out of the house but 3-4 times to quick shopping runs, so doubted I could’ve picked up anything except by licking the shopping-cart handle. Sick

Could I have picked up a light-enough viral load to “catch” something but shake it off almost immediately? Yeh. Doubt it, but possible. Could’ve just been my thermostat dropping a bit too low during the night.

And therein lies the problem. Without a formal and reliable test, ie, none of this test-positive then test-negative then rinse/repeat a few more times, there’s no reliable way to know if anyone had it, fought it off, has antibodies, or could even pick it up again. We. Just. Don’t. Know.

And exactly like someone (gaaah, forgot who… djozz? ah, our very own sb) mentioned, those who seem most sure of themselves are typically the least trustworthy. It’s that phrase “I don’t know” that leads people to learn.

So unfortunately, I get the feeling this plague will be around for a looooong time before anyone gets any meaningful (and correct) answers. And that’s only if politics and finances stay out of it. As long as The Authorities maintain the Official Narrative and other dissenting voices are dismissed or even censored, there’ll always be more questions than answers. More of We Just Don’t Know, yet They™ won’t admit it.

And that can (and likely will) end up costing lives.

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I dont know about anyone else, but I have trouble identifying the ‘problem’….. maybe Ive contributed at times….. I dunno. I just look at each user/post as a different person with their own opinion. That is all it is, an opinion. You cant look at opinions as attacks on how you feel about something. Ive learned from experience that few will agree with me and even less vice versa but the more input I have to work with, good & bad, the better…. in order to justify my ‘opinion’. Beer

Im not a Pessimist …. just an Optimist with a lot of experience


A little John Prine

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sb56637 wrote:
At least here all the moderation difficulties are all in one place.

I get that. I don't in the slightest envy your moderating role.

sb56637 wrote:
A lot of the stats and studies are also very interesting, if not necessarily accurate.

With 95.37% of all statistics being made up, sprinkled with assertions of motives, unsubstantiated claims of knowledge, logical fallacies too numerous to keep up with, "interesting" quickly morphs into "dangerous".

 

Some may argue "live and let live" and "to each their own". But in a society, "no man is an island", or individuals are not independent of each other. Others' views and behaviors end up affecting many others. Therefore, failure to address inaccuracies ends up harming not only those who hold them, but also oneself in the end.

How I wish this were not so; it would spare me a lot of effort.

 

John Donne wrote:

No man is an island,
Entire of itself,
Every man is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manor of thy friend's
Or of thine own were:
Any man's death diminishes me,
Because I am involved in mankind,
And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee.

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pennzy wrote:
You're all crazy. I'm the only sane one. Don't believe me? Just ask me.

 

I'm always right, you guys are always wrong, thanks!

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klrman wrote:

pennzy wrote:
You’re all crazy. I’m the only sane one. Don’t believe me? Just ask me.

 


I’m always right, you guys are always wrong, thanks!


Hey, wait a minute. We both can’t be right. LOL
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Goodness me, could this be industrial disease?

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djmcconn wrote:
Goodness me, could this be industrial disease?

What’s that? Dire Straits?
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youre both wrong
Im right
lol

but, lets not argue..
if I say something you agree with, go ahead and requote my brilliant contribution Party

if you cant resist being disagreeable, dont requote me in public
argue with me by PM Angry

those are just the confirmed cases.. antibody testing is showing about 12x more people than confirmed cases, have corona antibodies. That means they had the virus within the past 2 months, and are have thus been part of vectors for community spread

raccoon city wrote:
I want to apologize for making insults and accusations
I respect and admire you for having the courage to apologize for your role. I also apologize for acting like The Post Police.
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This is some heavy stuff to digest. Tired
I understand why people take vitamins but how do you know if the particular label is even slightly accurate? Who is testing the vitamin brands?
It seems to me that Vitamin manufacturers are no different than flashlight manufacturers, unless someone does a honest review, there is not even a slight guarantee about their product.
Are there any honest ones?

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What about all these crazy numbers they don’t lie”
Numbers are nunmbers, , One thing I would want to know is how many people die in a hospital or nursing home presumably by the virus, It’s just like a black hole, if they go to hospital and no one will ever see these people again. No one who cares about you can visit, Families can’t visit, and nobody can’t witness the abuse and see how and what’s going on, no food no drinks, not even witnesses,
No one cares in the hospital, you are just a statistic, if a mistake happens, too busy to care, it was not anyone’s fault, it was the virus the deadly virus. If you are thirsty you might cough, if they don’t feed you, you might get weak, etc… all valid symptomps of a virus. As you are about to die, you will experience Shortness of breath. Bingo!!! Sushi

It seems to be a very profitable way for hospitals to label everything as Coronavirus,

Anyhow
Man!! I miss this guy, can’t argue with him.

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pennzy wrote:
klrman wrote:

pennzy wrote:
You're all crazy. I'm the only sane one. Don't believe me? Just ask me.

 

I'm always right, you guys are always wrong, thanks!

Hey, wait a minute. We both can't be right. LOL

 

Yes we can in our minds at least............. we both probably think we are right lol.

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klrman wrote:

pennzy wrote:
klrman wrote:

pennzy wrote:
You’re all crazy. I’m the only sane one. Don’t believe me? Just ask me.

 


I’m always right, you guys are always wrong, thanks!


Hey, wait a minute. We both can’t be right. LOL

 


Yes we can in our minds at least…………. we both probably think we are right lol.


Polite Canadians. Thumbs Up
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Going to a nursing home would be like going to Gitmo…

Count me out.

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pennzy
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Lightbringer wrote:
Going to a nursing home would be like going to Gitmo…

Count me out.


And to add insult to injury, they were awarded legal immunity.
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pennzy wrote:
klrman wrote:

pennzy wrote:
klrman wrote:

pennzy wrote:
You're all crazy. I'm the only sane one. Don't believe me? Just ask me.

 

I'm always right, you guys are always wrong, thanks!

Hey, wait a minute. We both can't be right. LOL

 

Yes we can in our minds at least............. we both probably think we are right lol.

Polite Canadians. :THUMBS-UP:

 

haha, thanks but I'm sure many here think I'm a dingbat.

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sochi111 wrote:
What about all these crazy numbers they don’t lie”
Numbers are nunmbers, , One thing I would want to know is how many people die in a hospital or nursing home presumably by the virus, It’s just like a black hole, if they go to hospital and no one will ever see these people again. No one who cares about you can visit, Families can’t visit, and nobody can’t witness the abuse and see how and what’s going on, no food no drinks, not even witnesses,
No one cares in the hospital, you are just a statistic, if a mistake happens, too busy to care, it was not anyone’s fault, it was the virus the deadly virus. If you are thirsty you might cough, if they don’t feed you, you might get weak, etc… all valid symptomps of a virus. As you are about to die, you will experience Shortness of breath. Bingo!!! Sushi

It seems to be a very profitable way for hospitals to label everything as Coronavirus,

Anyhow
Man!! I miss this guy, can’t argue with him.

!{width:90%}https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qGMpRB2fKN0/Txv8lcY2jyI/AAAAAAAAA2E/kDbXMFzYe...!

Richard Kiel! He was actually a kind, gentle guy. But big, and could look scary as hell.

Yeah, count me out from the hospital experience, I’d rather die at home than suffer alone in an antiseptic room. My wife has been in the hospital a few times, and I really had to advocate hard for her on a few occasions. When in bad pain and on morphine, she couldn’t do that for herself. (Now she just about has a panic attack when simply driving past a hospital!)

All these covid patients alone, with no family allowed in there to chase after what’s best for them, that would be horrible.

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Pennzy you nailed it. Watchdog got rabies, the foreman’s got fleas…..

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sochi111 wrote:
This is some heavy stuff to digest. Tired I understand why people take vitamins but how do you know if the particular label is even slightly accurate? Who is testing the vitamin brands? It seems to me that Vitamin manufacturers are no different than flashlight manufacturers, unless someone does a honest review, there is not even a slight guarantee about their product. Are there any honest ones?

My first reply on this topic and please take it for what it is or feel free to ignore it… just trying to help.

Without going into it in great length… I have Lyme Disease. Contracted it in 2011, went to seven doctors, and spent about $14k (out of pocket, my insurance co. spent WAY more) after finally having the top infectious disease outfit in KC tell me… “go to Mayo.”

But the problem WITH Mayo is they have NEVER CURED a single case of chronic Lyme- nobody has. To confuse the issue the word Lyme is an extremely POOR name for a disease that is at least SEVERAL pathogens working together FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY (it’s called evolution and ALL life forms evolve— with bacteria being the FASTEST “evolvers” on earth BTW). Borella is only ONE of the pathogens that presents with Lyme… but there are MANY others that have literally joined forces to create the “Co-Infection” we generalize as Lyme today.

After a few years I FINALLY found Stephen H. Buhner’s book, “Healing Lyme Naturally” where I found a solution to managing my Lyme and I have become an alchemist in doing so. Like studying lights here and figuring out the good from the bad, it takes time to figure out what works for YOU. After nine years I have found what works for me and (for me) there has been no better source than Stephen Buhner and his excellent books.

To the point: Stephen released a FREE paper he worked on immediately after the Covid outbreak. He describes his suggested protocols in that paper. It is NOT a pick up the phone and order your “pill” proposal though. You have to do some work, and you have to understand the bigger picture to managing a chronic disease like Lyme you will never “cure” (and again, after the first 30 days without a MASSIVE antibiotic regiment… Lyme IS a chronic scenario”).

Now… with Covid: We can all agree there are many unknowns. But there ARE some herbs that block viral reception and others that support the immune system that can help with avoiding Covid. My wife and I tinctured a cocktail last month using this paper’s info and using some other herbs (than my Lyme herbs) that are not very expensive. I ADDED it to my Lyme regiment and she is taking the tincture along with more herbs we have found (through trail and error) that help her too.

We also wear masks, wash hands a lot, and we go out for minimal needs— but we DO go out and so having this protocol has been something we appreciate during all this “unknown”. In fact, we have found that there is OFTEN a better herb than pill for managing SOME our health as we get into our 50s.

It is NOT easy to study your health at this level, and it took me getting Neural Lyme to get started. But after a few years, a few of Buhner’s (and others) great books, and about 25 herbs tried (with about 10 or so found to be the best for me), I can say I suffer little today from what many people have died from (and Lyme is growing without any real research save for Johns Hopkins who finally started on it about 4 years back- waiting to hear from them still though).

Here is the link to the Buhner Covid 19 paper and it is NOT an easy read, but if you read it a few times and get the BASIC gist of what he’s saying… your paradigm shift will start and you’ll start to understand modern diseases better than a LOT OF DOCTORS. Not hating on medical professionals here either… we both go to our docs, get our check-ups, and some times there IS A PILL we need. But the stuff pills are made of often come in a natural form given you can find the right herb (and it is WAY cheaper— and more often better than SOME pills). With that said… most doctors out there are doing what they can and sincerely helping us the best they can. But there are many valid problems with modern medicine and pills – we all talk about them daily. So let’s please not argue about the medical establishment or my opinion here, ok? Silly

I delayed putting this up as I don’t want to get into any pissing matches on BLF and I am putting this up because it certainly has worked for me— and maybe someone here can benefit from it. Fair enough I hope. Beer

Buhner Paper

ZappaMan

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djozz wrote:
Lightbringer wrote:
Yeah, but no offense, but who becomes Grand Arbiter of what’s Right and Wrong information?….

What greatly disturbs this thread from being informative and useful is not the posting of different opinions about the facts (which I like to hear), but posting lies/misinformation, mostly easy to debunk but sometimes so fancy made that they are even difficult to pinpoint. Misinformation undermines any usefulness of this thread and zero interests me. Misinformation is not arbitary and easy to recognise and I try to debunk misinformation every now and then, like others do. The misinformation in this thread is posted consistently by the same few BLF-members whose intention is clearly not providing useful information, and I’m likely too naive to guess what their real intentions are.

So to answer your question: this is not about right or wrong information, but about correct and false information. This does not require an arbiter but it requires checking the facts and sources.

Very well said. It also disturbs me a great deal. There are some people here who rail against the truth because it’s inconvenient, not aligned with their political interests, or they crave to be contrarian (soft trolling). I take the time to vet my sources. And YES, if I quote John Oliver, a comedian, I’m doing it for good reason. Oliver has become a political patriot. His messaging is artfully done to inform and entertain. He really strives for truth and I’ve confirmed this enough times that I trust him. There are some people here who latch onto a conspiracy theorist or fringe person with some medical background. Like you said, this goes beyond right or wrong position, instead being about fact vs. fiction.

Part of the problem is that, as some have pointed out, we’re STILL learning more & more about this virus as time goes on. This is not the influenza virus. And considering it like the flu is a tragic mistake (some politicians did this—major egg on face, now rotting). By the very fact that we don’t fully understand it, there are some important things we do know—it has a lifecycle. It can be killed. We COULD wipe it out, by simply stopping all transmission. And right now, that’s the most important defense we have, until a vaccine is discovered.

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jacktheclipper wrote:
My daughter contracted Covid-19 and for nine days had a low grade fever ( never got above 99.5 F ) , mild body aches and some chills . She did not lose her sense of smell or taste and said the worst part of it was the constant fatigue . She is 27 years old and was (and is) in good health .

When she felt ill she went to the doctor on the first day . There she was tested for Influenza Type A and Type B in order to rule out the ‘regular’ flu . Having tested negative for those , she was told that she probably did have Covid-19 and was tested for it . She was confirmed positive two days later .

On day 10 she texted to say that she felt normal . On day 13 she went back to the doctor and was tested again for Covid-19 and was declared free of the virus .

She has been taking it easy and says she is feeling better every day .

Another acquaintance said his 20 year old son was only sick ( from Covid -19 ) for two days .

I’m confidant that most healthy people who contract this virus will have a few crappy days and then they’ll be ok .

These are the “good” cases. You can’t judge the whole pandemic based on these two. There are many cases where even young people have suffered side effects from the virus that lingers with them for many months afterward, in some cases becoming a chronic condition they’ll like have for the rest of their lives. Regardless of the statistics on those cases, WHO wants to play ROULETTE with this virus? It’s not yet known what are the precise factors that will make one person get through COVID-19 like a flu, or end up with damaged lungs. This is dangerous. And the long pre-asymptomatic phase is turning this into a nightmare. USA had a surge of 50,000 cases in ONE DAY. This is like a reboot of the virus, like rolling back to February. And it will keep happening if people believe the hoax that masks are harmful & shouldn’t be worn. There must be 100% compliance. “But, my freedoms!” Screw it. This is not about freedom but about saving lives. Seriously—if we had a totally compliant lockdown for just 2 months, the virus would’ve been defeated. Dragging it on as we’re doing is costing us far more in lost revenue & lives.
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pennzy wrote:
Lightbringer wrote:
Going to a nursing home would be like going to Gitmo…
And to add insult to injury, they were awarded legal immunity.

To be fair, I can’t put all the blame on them, at least here in Noo Yuck, as they were forced to do so by politicians.

Dunno what happened in other states, though.

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chinooker wrote:
Lightbringer wrote:
Going to a nursing home would be like going to Gitmo…
My God, what an indictment.

Yep. Take already immunocompromised oldsters, who are already under lockdown (no visitors, maybe just wave through the window), no exercise, no activities, no nothing (‘scuse the double-negative). All they’re allowed to do is stare at the walls.

Now tell the nursing-homes they’re forced to accept even c19-positive patients. Wheee…

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Zappaman wrote:

Nothing wrong with herbs, herbalists, or herbalism. Aspirin was derived from willow bark, digitalis from the foxglove plant, then you got echinacea, stinging nettle, all sorts of natural goodies.

In fact, some chiral compounds derived naturally (L- or D- version exclusively, whichever occurs in nature and whichever works) work better than those produced synthetically (racemic mixture of both L- and D-, or possibly just the “wrong” kind).

Been a long time since I dabbled with orgchem, but I recall enough to know that quite often the natural product is way better (more effective) than the synthesised one.

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xevious wrote:
djozz wrote:
Lightbringer wrote:
Yeah, but no offense, but who becomes Grand Arbiter of what’s Right and Wrong information?….

What greatly disturbs this thread from being informative and useful is not the posting of different opinions about the facts (which I like to hear), but posting lies/misinformation, mostly easy to debunk but sometimes so fancy made that they are even difficult to pinpoint. Misinformation undermines any usefulness of this thread and zero interests me. Misinformation is not arbitary and easy to recognise and I try to debunk misinformation every now and then, like others do. The misinformation in this thread is posted consistently by the same few BLF-members whose intention is clearly not providing useful information, and I’m likely too naive to guess what their real intentions are.

So to answer your question: this is not about right or wrong information, but about correct and false information. This does not require an arbiter but it requires checking the facts and sources.

Very well said. It also disturbs me a great deal. There are some people here who rail against the truth because it’s inconvenient, not aligned with their political interests, or they crave to be contrarian (soft trolling). I take the time to vet my sources.

I totally agree that this virus is no joke, and I definitely would strongly encourage everyone to be well informed and find accurate sources of information. But I think we all have to admit that a flashlight forum isn’t the proper place to do that. It’s been pretty obvious since the beginning of this thread that most or all posters here had already made their determination as to what they consider to be legitimate facts almost from day one, and they will not be swayed. That’s why I mentioned yesterday that for the purposes of posting in this thread, the only thing that needs to be analyzed is the level of controversy around a certain opinion or fact, and if it’s likely to be disputed then please avoid the topic here. And then go and do your own diligent private research to find out the truth of the matter. Wink Be safe everyone.

Budget Light Forum ...where Frugal meets with Flashlight!

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Lightbringer wrote:
Zappaman wrote:

Nothing wrong with herbs, herbalists, or herbalism…. but I recall enough to know that quite often the natural product is way better (more effective) than the synthesised one.

Up until very recently in human history, botanicals and mushrooms were THE medicine. Botany was required core coursework for MDs until the 50s. For thousands of years, we ate what grew in the yard OFTEN. So Modern pharmaceuticals are a NEW thing when you look at the whole timeline. What is most concerning is that our diet has shrunk to just a handful of the good things we used to eat (with a LOT of useless fillers now being served).

So a key point I got from Buhner is that “herbs” are FOOD we used to find growing in obvious places we learned about from our parents as children growing up. And we knew we had to have them for our diet and health so we kept tabs on it all back in the day (and we dried many for “teas”, spices, and winter stores). Another thing was that some just tasted bad Sick — but worked REALLY good!

I am AS lucky as it gets and I know it: I have an acre, a water well, solar PV system, good soil and I hunt and grow a very diverse diet of natural foods. I can about 150 qts. a year from the garden and freeze 150 lbs of wild meat a year. But I am the minority; I live in a Midwest town that is technically a “food desert”.

Your average person here mostly eats processed food so thankfully the work ethic keeps them in decent shape despite the not so great diet. But, like the rest of the US, the kids are not growing up like the parents. Obesity is as much a problem here as anywhere else, and they don’t have the work ethic of mom and dad.

Anyway, the point here is that we have lost some things to our modern life, and gained some too. But only you can decide own your health, and going to the vitamin store is pretty much a waste of time to me as most of the stuff they are selling is providing for expensive pee Silly

ZappaMan

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xevious wrote:
jacktheclipper wrote:
My daughter contracted Covid-19 and for nine days had a low grade fever ( never got above 99.5 F ) , mild body aches and some chills . She did not lose her sense of smell or taste and said the worst part of it was the constant fatigue . She is 27 years old and was (and is) in good health .

When she felt ill she went to the doctor on the first day . There she was tested for Influenza Type A and Type B in order to rule out the ‘regular’ flu . Having tested negative for those , she was told that she probably did have Covid-19 and was tested for it . She was confirmed positive two days later .

On day 10 she texted to say that she felt normal . On day 13 she went back to the doctor and was tested again for Covid-19 and was declared free of the virus .

She has been taking it easy and says she is feeling better every day .

Another acquaintance said his 20 year old son was only sick ( from Covid -19 ) for two days .

I’m confidant that most healthy people who contract this virus will have a few crappy days and then they’ll be ok .

These are the “good” cases. You can’t ……

That’s a valid personal experience, jacktheclipper. Thanks for sharing. Nothing there to argue about (against the rules anyway).
Rexlion
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Last seen: 3 hours 23 min ago
Joined: 05/18/2019 - 16:59
Posts: 653
Location: Okla.

Ingesting natural stuff is good for us. Except for drinking “Natural Light” beer … Big Smile

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