Coronavirus discussion thread

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Deputy Dog
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NorthernHarrier wrote:
Deputy Dog wrote:
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The states were obviously not equipped with either the knowledge or the resources to develop safe, effective policies and implement them. But they had no choice, as there was no federal government program to address the projected hospital bed shortage in ICU’s, and little federal government guidance on the problems faced by the states.

So pass the buck?

I thought we fought a war over State’s rights, do we need a war over State’s responsibility as well?

The state governments didn’t pass the buc, as I explained in my post.

As for the alleged “war over states’ rights,” I won’t go off topic other than to suggest the best one-volume book about the USA civil war, which describes the USA in the years preceding, during, and immediately after the war, and explains why the war happened: “Battle Cry of Freedom,” by James M. McPherson.

Several times when the federal government was talking about reopening, which states did most of the crying about being dictated to? Then when they got their way, they refused to take responsibility with some governors not even following their own guidelines or the science.

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Deputy Dog wrote:
That actually sounds like the answer our governor would give. I guess the key to your statement is, that you “can think of”. But… then again, the Bill of Rights is over our governors paygrade Facepalm his words not mine. I’m sure you would have agreed that closing state parks was following the science as well, right?

I don’t know who your governor is and don’t understand your point. Certainly the closure of any state parks is no where near the impact of the impacts of excess sugar, tobacco, or carbon. If science had been followed we would have acted far earlier and been able to deal with this without such broad scale interventions as closing state parks. Frankly if people behaved according to what we actually know from science — airborne disease distance and mask. Closing or opening the parks would not have a meaningful difference. If individuals actually took responsibility for protecting their neighbors rights no government intervention would be necessary. Unfortunately, as is clearly shown in the USA, far too many people only care about their own rights and don’t understand that they can not have those rights if others behave as they do.

NorthernHarrier
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Deputy Dog wrote:
NorthernHarrier wrote:
Deputy Dog wrote:
Quote:
The states were obviously not equipped with either the knowledge or the resources to develop safe, effective policies and implement them. But they had no choice, as there was no federal government program to address the projected hospital bed shortage in ICU’s, and little federal government guidance on the problems faced by the states.

So pass the buck?

I thought we fought a war over State’s rights, do we need a war over State’s responsibility as well?

The state governments didn’t pass the buc, as I explained in my post.

As for the alleged “war over states’ rights,” I won’t go off topic other than to suggest the best one-volume book about the USA civil war, which describes the USA in the years preceding, during, and immediately after the war, and explains why the war happened: “Battle Cry of Freedom,” by James M. McPherson.

Several times when the federal government was talking about reopening, which states did most of the crying about being dictated to? Then when they got their way, they refused to take responsibility with some governors not even following their own guidelines or the science.

You seem intent on repeatedly criticizing governors for trying to come up with a way to accomplish what the federal and state health experts were recommending, and for responding to the predicted upcoming shortage of hospital beds and critical care facilities, at the same time they were dealing with the emerging economic crisis in their states. Considering that only a few screens back you asked the moderator to close the thread due to its political content, that’s ironic. It’s perfectly appropriate to criticize what was done in any emergency, but suggesting that the mistakes were made with malice or recklessness about human lives is not accurate or fair.

As I pointed out earlier, the directives from the states to nursing facilities to take Covid-19 patients were made on the condition that each such facility confirm with the state that they were able to safely and effectively care for the patients they took, before patients were transferred. The governors were told by the federal government that they would need to free up more hospital beds for the coming onslaught of critically ill patients. When the states asked the feds for help doing that, they were told they were basically on their own. The governors had to do something. What would you have done instead of what they did, given the lack of money and time and resources? More to the point, what would you have done instead of what they did that could not be criticized later for the negative consequences?

The governors not following the science were the ones reopening too early, according to the federal government task force’s guidelines. The states complaining about being dictated to were alarmed by the federal government urging them to relax their restrictions and open up before their states’ infection and death rates met the requirements of the federal government’s own guidelines.

You can be a Monday morning quarterback and self-righteously accuse the governors of murder, but they would have also been accused of murder when the hospitals ran out of room for the acutely ill, as predicted by the experts, and people died for that reason. And that did happen in some states. It’s easy to criticize them after the fact. By the same measure, then, you have to adjudge the actions of our federal government leaders at least as harshly.

Photon Master
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Here’s a weird one for you. One of our friends brought her new boyfriend over for dinner recently and he claimed that he never heard about Covid. Big country boy who spends most of his time hunting and outdoors. No cell phone, internet, doesn’t watch tv or read the newspaper

I have to admit it sounded like a peaceful life. Obviously he didn’t wear a mask (:

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Photon Master wrote:
Here’s a weird one for you. One of our friends brought her new boyfriend over for dinner recently and he claimed that he never heard about Covid. Big country boy who spends most of his time hunting and outdoors. No cell phone, internet, doesn’t watch tv or read the newspaper

Does he live with The Professor, The Skipper, and Mary Ann?

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Deputy Dog
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You can be a Monday morning quarterback and self-righteously accuse the governors of murder, but they would have also been accused of murder when the hospitals ran out of room for the acutely ill, as predicted by the experts, and people died for that reason. And that did happen in some states. It’s easy to criticize them after the fact. By the same measure, then, you have to adjudge the actions of our federal government leaders at least as harshly.

I didn’t use the word murder, why did you?

That actually never happened here in NJ. While the hospitals and their staffs were very busy (probably overworked), most of the extra beds and staff provided by the Army Corp were never really utilized. I believe at most, the hospital ship never had more than a dozen or so people.

Speaking as someone who has spent way to much time in and out of hospitals lately with family and in-laws, the healthcare system has been devastated in this state for well over a decade.

You don’t seem to mind criticizing the federal government leaders. When the State leaders had access to the same science as the feds, many didn’t even know what resources they actually had in their own state or how to utilize it.

As I said before there is plenty of blame to go around on both sides, but it really doesn’t help the situation. The problem at this point looking backward is we don’t know what we don’t know. I believe the virus had a much bigger head start than anyone in this and other countries realized, and the China government in league with the WHO tried to cover things up.

I have friends who were in China at the time who knew more about it then we did. In the mean time we had 100s of thousands (some say more than 700,000 of people from China visiting us here and other countries around the world. We know this to be true.

kennybobby
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Photon Master wrote:
… he claimed that he never heard about Covid. Big country boy who spends most of his time hunting and outdoors. No cell phone, internet, doesn’t watch tv or read the newspaper

What’s that old phrase— “ignorance is bliss”

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Deputy Dog
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Lightbringer wrote:
Photon Master wrote:
Here’s a weird one for you. One of our friends brought her new boyfriend over for dinner recently and he claimed that he never heard about Covid. Big country boy who spends most of his time hunting and outdoors. No cell phone, internet, doesn’t watch tv or read the newspaper

Does he live with The Professor, The Skipper, and Mary Ann?

It had to be the Maine hermit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF2Ajh_8cLk

Photon Master
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Lightbringer wrote:
Photon Master wrote:
Here’s a weird one for you. One of our friends brought her new boyfriend over for dinner recently and he claimed that he never heard about Covid. Big country boy who spends most of his time hunting and outdoors. No cell phone, internet, doesn’t watch tv or read the newspaper

Does he live with The Professor, The Skipper, and Mary Ann?

Haha that’s the funniest thing I’ve heard today. Thanks

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Photon Master wrote:
Haha that’s the funniest thing I’ve heard today. Thanks

I was going to ask what manner of Martian prey he hunts.

pennzy
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Photon Master wrote:
Here’s a weird one for you. One of our friends brought her new boyfriend over for dinner recently and he claimed that he never heard about Covid. Big country boy who spends most of his time hunting and outdoors. No cell phone, internet, doesn’t watch tv or read the newspaper

I have to admit it sounded like a peaceful life. Obviously he didn’t wear a mask (:


You really do live on Mars.
Photon Master
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Yeah, the weather is nice this time of year. It sucks getting news 3 minutes 43 seconds after everyone else does though. Makes it hard to day trade

Photon Master
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I actually changed my location because some Canadian dude was heckling me a little about owning lasers over 1 milliwatt. Didn’t want the guy stalking me or reporting me to the po po Smile

NorthernHarrier
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I used the word murder because another member used that word to describe the decision to transfer patients to nursing homes.

Many people in certain media circles spread the story that the governors critical of the federal government response weren’t aware of the resources available in their states. So many in the public believe it. But that notion came from the US administration to deflect the criticism it was getting at the time. In reality, the governors were very knowledgeable about the resources available to them.

Governor Hogan of Maryland, for example, was accused by the administration of being unaware of certain hospitals with usable beds in his state. In reality, he called all of those hospitals, and was told their beds were reserved by federal regulations (for veterans, for example) and other legal restrictions and couldn’t be used for COVID patients. The federal government was responsible for releasing those restrictions, but had not done so.

I’m not against either the federal or state governments. I’m against false information, that’s all.

hank
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Quote:
The Post editor who oversees our coronavirus tracking, Jacqueline Dupree, notes that states occasionally muddy up their numbers without any intervention from the federal government.

“As the states change their methodologies, our numbers can see large spikes or drops,” she said. “The most recent example is Massachusetts, which in early September stopped using its own definitions for what made a probable case and switched to the CDC definition, which resulted in a subtraction of more than 7,000 cases from their combined and probable total cases.”

https://s2.washingtonpost.com/camp-rw/?trackId=5ced5692ade4e21968ecfd82&...

Deputy Dog
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I was speaking more about the testing and reporting.

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Hmm nice find Hank

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Photon Master wrote:
I actually changed my location because some Canadian dude was heckling me a little about owning lasers over 1 milliwatt. Didn’t want the guy stalking me or reporting me to the po po Smile

Ugh. Sorry you had to deal with that.

Photon Master
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Kindle wrote:
Photon Master wrote:
I actually changed my location because some Canadian dude was heckling me a little about owning lasers over 1 milliwatt. Didn’t want the guy stalking me or reporting me to the po po Smile

Ugh. Sorry you had to deal with that.

Ya right?? I have a couple blue lasers and I do a little wood burning and stuff. Never shined them at an animal, person, vehicle or a building. The idiots shooting them at planes are the problem

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Photon Master wrote:
Here’s a weird one for you. One of our friends brought her new boyfriend over for dinner recently and he claimed that he never heard about Covid. Big country boy who spends most of his time hunting and outdoors. No cell phone, internet, doesn’t watch tv or read the newspaper

I have to admit it sounded like a peaceful life. Obviously he didn’t wear a mask (:

Are we going to be reading his story in /r/TIFU like potato man?

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A what man?

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Say what, Fauci?

Dr. Fauci Says It’s Fine to Take Vitamins C and D to Help Boost Your Immune System
https://www.health.com/nutrition/vitamins-supplements/dr-fauci-vitamin-c-and-d

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Good news:
University Of Pittsburgh Scientists Discover Biomolecule That May Neutralize Coronavirus

https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2020/09/15/coronavirus-university-pittsb...

pennzy
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This is why ^ MSM does what it does. Good news is no news. Crazy

Photon Master
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I think everyone will eventually get exposed to it. No way will they create and test a vaccine and vaccinate all ~ 270 million people in the US before I end up getting exposed to it. I’m focusing on staying as healthy as possible – healthy food, lots of fresh air and exercise, etc

pennzy
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Questions remain about immunity after exposure or vaccine. Treatments might be better answer?

Photon Master
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I also don’t want to be one of the first people to get the vaccine. Obviously I believe in and get vaccines that have been in existence for decades and tested on millions of people but I don’t want to be the guinea pig for something they rush to make before it’s tested thoroughly

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With a name like Operation Warp Speed—it’s guaranteed to be safe! And with the right Flux Capacitor anything is possible.

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All of the companies developing Covid-19 vaccines in the USA have signed on to the FDA’s vaccine development and testing protocol, including the safety provisions. For a copy of the FDA’s protocol, see: FDA Protocol

The vaccine manufacturers will not benefit if they rush a vaccine to market before it is safe, and they will be watched very carefully during the development and testing process. Promoting fear of the vaccine, based on what we know now, is not a responsible thing to do, for the sake of saving lives.

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pennzy wrote:
Good news:
University Of Pittsburgh Scientists Discover Biomolecule That May Neutralize Coronavirus

https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2020/09/15/coronavirus-university-pittsb...

Since this is NOT a vaccine they say it will be simpler to test.

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