Mod: HD2010 - 5,9A Qlite and XM-l2 U2 1D

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RaceR86
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Mod: HD2010 - 5,9A Qlite and XM-l2 U2 1D

Its my first HD2010 mod. Thought id share. I dont have pictures of everything though.

My light came from WB, arrived with the good east092, which I plan to use for something else. I put a 5,9A Qlite in this one. 8*380mA + 8*350mA (these are more like 360). Tested with 3 XM-Ls in parallel.

Not sure how people does the pills in these lights when using "well stacked" 7135 drivers.  But I searched and found someone used a P60 pill for help, I did the same. It was more work than I thought. I made it into a hard press fit. I also used JB Weld to make sure it could never go out.. Contact is great.  I can only fit short unprotected cells (or IMRs) due to the extra lenght, which is what will be used in this light anyway.

Ready to check emitter amps:

5,9A, even through the switch with freshly charged cell! WIN! (Sony 26650 green SE 50A cell whatever its named and copper braided tail spring)

Tried a XM-L2 U2 1D for the first time. Used stock centering ring, I did not get one of those tall stupid ones. Smile AR lens from CNQ. I tightened the pill. I was happy with the focus. Kapton tape on the back of the reflector as usual..

I have been hearing about body to pill contact issues. Have people been experiencing those with a tightened pill too?

As can be seen from amp readings, contact seems to be good, im only asking because this light will get a new owner quite soon and I don't want it to have any issues.

I did some tailcap readings once I had tested the light outdoors.

4,05V (resting) 5,8A at the tail

3,82V (resting) 4,6A at the tail

I used my new custom ampmeter. I have now found out that I do get slightly higher readings with it than my regular DMM due to lower resistance. Smile But I did see 5,9A at the emitter with my regular DMM too when I used the freshly charged cell. ^^ It became a bright HD2010 for sure! Sweet little thrower, now with a nicer driver circuit too.

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Edited by: RaceR86 on 01/09/2014 - 16:56
jmpaul320
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nice work!!

Would you mind keeping the wrong flashlight?
Best wish, May
Tmart service team

 

Soumil wrote:

PLEASE HELP ME GEARBEsT! IM LITERALLY CRYING!

 

unknown00101
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Have you done a runtime test? I’m looking to do something similar, probably with aspherical.

RaceR86
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unknown00101 wrote:
Have you done a runtime test? I'm looking to do something similar, probably with. aspherical.

Only used half a battery so far. Mostly when going for a walk. Ill go through a battery or two tomorrow when going for a walk. Were you interested in something special?

Feel free to share your mod when you get around too it! Wink

Thanks jmpaul320. Smile

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Very nice!  Like that custom ampmeter too.  Did you post that build somewhere that I missed?

-Garry

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garrybunk wrote:

Very nice!  Like that custom ampmeter too.  Did you post that build somewhere that I missed?

-Garry

I'm curious as well.  My power supply arrived today from CircuitSpecialists, and I'd like to start amassing more equipment that I don't really know how to utilize Wink

RaceR86
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garrybunk wrote:

Very nice!  Like that custom ampmeter too.  Did you post that build somewhere that I missed?

-Garry

I mentioned it in my previous mod thread, and in another thread showing some Christmas presents. There is no build thread on it.

9V battery inside, a switch, the ampmeter. Packed in some metal stuff he had. Ive only used it for my last two mods, and on the previous one I did notice the difference. But now when I did the tailcap readings I got slightly better numbers. Then again, my custom DMM wires are not super thick. It should come in extra handy when I get past 10A.  J) And with general high current stuff where low resistance matters.

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unknown00101
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RaceR86 wrote:

unknown00101 wrote:
Have you done a runtime test? I’m looking to do something similar, probably with. aspherical.

Only used half a battery so far. Mostly when going for a walk. Ill go through a battery or two tomorrow when going for a walk. Were you interested in something special?

Feel free to share your mod when you get around too it! Wink

Thanks jmpaul320. Smile

Just an approximate run time from full to needing to be changed would be great.

I’m not really sure what the “needing to be changed” voltage would be running a single cell at high draw, safe to rely on the qlite’s protection?

nitro
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nice job, u got to quit showing off that meter box i want one Smile

Ouchyfoot
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Wow. That’s some wild HD2010. I’d love to try that, but I have big problems stacking more than two chips.

RaceR86
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unknown00101 wrote:
 I'm not really sure what the "needing to be changed" voltage would be running a single cell at high draw, safe to rely on the qlite's protection?

You will notice that the light have lost a ton of output when the battery starts to get close to 3V. And once its that low, you get lots of "extended runtime" due to the low output on high. The more I have tested low voltage limits, the less afraid I am om running my batteries low. Because output goes down a lot in a single cell light (atleast when you expect high to have 1000-1500++ lumen) And with a Qlite, you always have that safety, which always have worked when I have tested it.

Ive got no worries running unprotected cells in a setup like this. With the stock driver, that would be a different story. I just feel much safer having a cut off. Its is a great safety feature if your light for some reason should accidentally be turned on due to getting the switch pressed in. If there is a short circuit inside a light, you just fry a spring. So driver circuits can prevent undervoltage. Springs can prevent insane battery drain/short circuits. And if you use a good charger that will not overcharge, there is not much to worry about. Especially not if you monitor your cells.

When that is said. If not having a cut-off Im using protected cells in most lights. My previous mod features a custom "R86" version of the Drjones lumodrv. Its got low voltage cut off among other changes. (I have not tested yet though, partially because a Drjones drivers have a feature to extent runtime by a lot below 3V. Takes ages to drain a cell Silly )

Anyway, just test it yourself and get acquainted with how the output drops.

There are some small voltmeters on ebay and various places that can be nice to bring "out in the field" in order to check battery voltage.. 

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RaceR86
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nitro wrote:
nice job, u got to quit showing off that meter box i want one :)

My unofficial trademark. Emitter amps picture and my fingers holding something..  Silly

Thanks Ouchy, glad you like it.

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Nice build! I may have been the first to use a P60 pill in a HD2010, not sure, but that's how I used to do them. Now I just rotary tool down the alum pill, also tweak out more inside, then press fit in a brass ring 17mm adapter - it's easier/simpler than the P60 pill to get the same height/depth. I add copper in the pill too, but of course now I got copper pills as well. I've done several variations of P60 pill usages - you can dremel down the P60 as well and actually make a simple brass ring out of it.

The SONY cell delivers the 5.9A? Pretty nice! I prefer the Powerizers now, but guess overseas shipping costs may be crazy.

Ouchyfoot
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I didn’t notice the Sony cell. I just got two in the mail…still wrapped. Glad to see someone else try them.

ImA4Wheelr
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Whoa, is that a HD2010 current record?  Must have really made that baby sing.

RaceR86
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Tom E wrote:

Nice build! I may have been the first to use a P60 pill in a HD2010, not sure, but that's how I used to do them. Now I just rotary tool down the alum pill, also tweak out more inside, then press fit in a brass ring 17mm adapter - it's easier/simpler than the P60 pill to get the same height/depth. I add copper in the pill too, but of course now I got copper pills as well. I've done several variations of P60 pill usages - you can dremel down the P60 as well and actually make a simple brass ring out of it.

If I do another HD2010, I might just modify the pill like that. Sounds easier. But then again, everything is a bit harder the first time.. Thanks for sharing.

About the copper pills, I can see why people buy them for their HD2010, its easy plug and play. Could you share some measurements before after results in this thread?

Aluminium pill vs copper pill - share before and after results

I seem to remember that there were basically zero gain at 4,5A in a HD2010 where you compared aluminium vs copper pill, if I remember correctly. Please share in that thread. Many are interested in getting some numbers on this. And so far the results are vaguely various places. 

 

Tom E wrote:

The SONY cell delivers the 5.9A? Pretty nice! I prefer the Powerizers now, but guess overseas shipping costs may be crazy.

Ive seen 6,4A at the tail in my lustefire triple (with my regular DMM). Just a peak bragging number though. The cells does not seem to perform below my 20R cells, just way better once used.

I originally bought the cells for 10A or higher use.  Based on what I have seen documented, they seem to hold voltage better than any IMR I have seen at those high currents.

But if I place a small order from the states, shipping makes the batteries more expensive than they are. And if I place a bit larger order, then custom fee + taxes kills the deal. The sony cells seems to give just as good output, just less capacity. I would prefer Powereizers for a light like this though. Im on the lookout for good IMRs. More capacity than 2600mAh would be great.  Maybe WB can get the keepower IMRs in stock that HKJ just tested. They are good in the 5A range, maybe similar to Powerizers?

 

Ouchyfoot wrote:
I didn't notice the Sony cell. I just got two in the mail...still wrapped. Glad to see someone else try them.

Ive been using them for a "long time".

Pushing around 10A through them here. And here. Among some lights I have been using them in.

Where did you buy yours?

ImA4Wheelr wrote:

Whoa, is that a HD2010 current record?  Must have really made that baby sing.

Oh it sings! Smile

I had room for more 7135s, but 5,9A peak is "adequate".  I could have breached the 6A limit for a super short time. Silly  But its not like I will see 5,5A+ at the emitter for much time anyway..

Taking the cell out of the charger and into the light probably helps achieving these " peak bragging numbers" easier. I cant remember anyone documenting such high numbers. Im much more into regulated lights, like my ZY-T08 that does 6,4A "all day" with great battery capacity. But HD2010 is a more compact and comfortable light to hold. Great form factor and its more idiot proof with a Qlite and single cell.

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Ouchyfoot
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I got my Sony 26650 here.
I know the capacity is low, but I have so many cells now that I’m just picking up various high drain and IMR cells now to play with.

RaceR86
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Ok, Ive bought mine from WB in the past. I just wonder about their order count (because I have ordered 6 in total, and total orders say 6). Maybe its a new feature that has not included all sales from the beginning or something.

Ive seen these cheap in larger batches other places, but not sure if those sources are as good...

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I got several MNKE IMR 26650, which is the cell in the KP's I believe, and they are way behind what a SONY or Powerizer can do. Maybe the KP's are using a new generation, dunno, but the HKJ internal resistance # is the key spec, and I don't see it competing.

For the copper/alum pill comparison - that's tough head to head. My alum HD 2010 pill mods always have copper added, 2-3 18 gauge discs or equivalent. Not sure if I can ever get true comparison results - takes a lot of time, and one of the main purposes of going with a copper pill is to save time.

RaceR86
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Tom E wrote:

I got several MNKE IMR 26650, which is the cell in the KP's I believe, and they are way behind what a SONY or Powerizer can do. Maybe the KP's are using a new generation, dunno, but the HKJ internal resistance # is the key spec, and I don't see it competing.

The mentioned and latest KP IMR HKJ tested are not much behind the Sony in terms peak performance, its pretty close to it, and better at the end (5A) Must be something better in this new KP cell than the MNKE IMR 26650 based on how you describe the performance of that cell.

 

Tom E wrote:

For the copper/alum pill comparison - that's tough head to head. My alum HD 2010 pill mods always have copper added, 2-3 18 gauge discs or equivalent. Not sure if I can ever get true comparison results - takes a lot of time, and one of the main purposes of going with a copper pill is to save time.

If you want to save time, why bother with copper inserts that heats up in close to no time? Have you measured any performance gain with those since you use the time and money to do it?

Before and after results..

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RaceR86 wrote:

Tom E wrote:

I got several MNKE IMR 26650, which is the cell in the KP's I believe, and they are way behind what a SONY or Powerizer can do. Maybe the KP's are using a new generation, dunno, but the HKJ internal resistance # is the key spec, and I don't see it competing.

The mentioned and latest KP IMR HKJ tested are not much behind the Sony in terms peak performance, its pretty close to it, and better at the end (5A) Must be something better in this new KP cell than the MNKE IMR 26650 based on how you describe the performance of that cell.

 

Tom E wrote:

For the copper/alum pill comparison - that's tough head to head. My alum HD 2010 pill mods always have copper added, 2-3 18 gauge discs or equivalent. Not sure if I can ever get true comparison results - takes a lot of time, and one of the main purposes of going with a copper pill is to save time.

If you want to save time, why bother with copper inserts that heats up in close to no time? Have you measured any performance gain with those since you use the time and money to do it?

Before and after results..

For the copper inserts, started doing it pretty much because everyone else of note here does (I stand on the shoulders of giants, like so many others). Yes - could question it. Even the master of copper, OL, has questioned it himself - I followed that thread. I believe it helps and so I keep doing it - done dozens of mods this way, but I'm not 100% in my conviction on it for sure, just like OL. Could be the old "making the sink bigger" so it spills later, but even for that there is an advantage. I do believe in core copper and outer aluminum - I believe that is well proven in the CPU heat sinking world, but where the boundary is, how many joints and transitions there are in the heat flow -- it's all important.

I wish I had more time, more money to do more experimenting and scientific testing methods, but I do have a crazy job, being self-employed and paid by the hour (when I take time off, I don't get paid), and the main money maker for the home (wife works part-time, still got a daughter in college).

I love the idea though of your suggestions and totally agree it should be done...

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I’ll smile first as I dont want to give anyone any extra work, but not only the copper verses ally pills but also copper and ally stars on each different pill. This is turning into a full time job. Is there anyone retired out there looking for something to do? Smile

 

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Old-Lumens. Highly admired and cherished member of Budget Light Forum. 11.5.2011 - 20.12.16. RIP.

 

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Im hoping to Dale (DBCstm is the man for the job). Maybe after his C8 convoy projects. Which are lights that just happens to have copper pills.

Back to the HD2010.. It worked great. Me and a friend were on a 3 hour trip tonight.

Drained two Sony cells down to 3,4 and 3,5V in this light. Lots of nice light for the size.

I also drained 2 x NCR18650B down to 3,5 in my ZY-T08.

And 4 x NCR18650B down to 3,6 in a SRK.

And 4 x NCR18650B down to 3,5 in a Supfire M6.

My friend used some lights as well, and he borrowed one of mine a bit.

The headlights in my car felt a bit dim after the trip..  0:)

With freshly charged cell the HD2010 was quite comparable to a Led Lenser X21R.

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Wow, I missed getting volunteered for something! As usual, late to the party and dressed all wrong.

Things have changed a lot in this last couple of months haven’t they? Now the FET driver is the talk of the town, and even I have jumped on the wagon! With new boards on the way and a bag full of new electronics, my USB Programmer sits idly by waiting to program ATiny13A’s for the big guns.

The Buck modded Convoy C8, with a copper pill like the one in my avatar, is sporting one of these FET drivers and making 6.61A through a Sony C4 or Efest 35A cell. Yep, even new cells out, the Sony C5, the Samsung 25R, the Efest 35A…big hitters and higher capacities just in time for the new drivers.

The C8 set up this way is seeing 1673 lumens at start, 1497 at 30 seconds with an Efest 35A. About time things took a swing up, wouldn’t you say? Smile

For the record, I’ve said it elsewhere but the M8 in my Avatar is now sporting the new FET driver and running 10.83A for a start of over 4000 lumens and 3600+ at 30. With modes. Very cool to have near direct drive and also a 7 lumen moon from an MT-G2. Smile

So what am I supposed to be doing? Testing? You mean like, the new cells on a direct drive XM-L2 on copper, no host? Oh yeah, did that, how about the possibility of 7.18A through the Sony C4? With these other big hitters at 6.8-7A their own selves? So 7A seems to be the limit on the XM-L2. Go get em boys!

RaceR86
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The FET drivers are interesting for certain lights. But as long as they whine its a no go in this light format for me..

Real life performance differences between a 7135 around 6A and a FET driver in a single emitter lights is not noticeable. Lots of whining from the light is noticeable and I would consider it a serious downgrade..

I would not consider 18650 batteries in a 26650 light either. 26650 cells hold voltage much better in the real world (after a little bit of use) and have better capacity..

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I don’t hear anything from mine, and neither do my wife or 6 year old. Not sure why some report how noisy they are and mine are silent.

And there are 18650 cells that hold voltage better than some 26650’s, depends on the cells of course. The Panasonic PF/PD cells are excellent. They won’t, however, deliver 7A to a single emitter but they will give 7.7A to a triple XM-L2. Always options, compromises and flat out trade-offs.

Most of the time, in my own use, the lights I’ve got running maximum numbers are not the lights I’d worry about how long they can do it. When I’m going to need a light for a longer period of time, I select a different set-up.

I have FET modified drivers in a Convoy C8, a Crelant 7G5, and a Solarforce M8 running 6.61A, 5.90A and 10.83A respectively. Holding them at my ear, almost in contact, there is no whine in any of 5 levels. Also of note, each of these has a Tofty 10A+ switch.

RaceR86
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Men (or people in general?) does not pick up high frequency noises as easily the older we get.. Something that is dead silent for a 50-70 year old can be annoying for people below 40..

PF/PD cells have nothing on a good 26650 in terms of voltage sag. A KK 4200mAh cell will spank a PF/PD cell in terms of voltage sag and capacity at the same time. HKJ have graphs that nicely shows these things.. Show me a 18650 cell that can outperform a green 50A Sony 26650 after 2-5 minutes of use...

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I just did my first master/slave Qlite driver setup. It isn’t fully installed yet, but I jury rigged it in my COURUI and got a reading of 5.9A. I was happy it worked. I must be learning something. The master is programmed for a momentary switch. Nice and quiet.
I know. I got a little carried away with the Fujik. I didn’t want to worry about it falling apart.

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I’ve got Powerizers for my HD2010 at this time, and haven’t found a cell to beat em. But with only 2 lights that use the 26650 I don’t have much demand for that size cell. And I already have 2 Efests in the format as well. So, with 50+ lights and only 3 that use this size (just ordered a 2nd HD2010) it’s pretty redundant how good the size performs. I’ve also got 6 32650’s, but what good are they without the light that utilizes them? I have 2 lights, Mag D’s, that will use em.

So all things are relative, are they not?

Where’s the best place to get the Sony 50A 26650?

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Looking at HKJ’s tests, the Efest 26650 gives that Sony a run for it’s money, and has higher capacity so the Efest outdistances the Sony. The Sony 50A is slightly ahead from start to 3.6V where the much cheaper Efest passes it. This is at 7A – 10A where our lights are most likely to run in the hot rod versions. In the 18650 format, HJK doesn’t have the new Samsung 25R, the new Efest 35A, or the Sony C4 or C5 listed. But from what I’m seeing in the tests I’ve run, they won’t be far behind that 50A and for close to half the price in many cases.

Pretty sure the Powerizer would best it, although it’s no longer available. I really do like using them in my big lights. Tom has found this to also be true. Shame we didn’t see their discontinued status coming, we would have bought some up to be sure.

I’m probably going to try a pair of the Sony’s just because. Smile

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Nice work Ouchy! I have been thinking about picking up a COURUI  since I first saw it... There was no rush, and I was hoping for a sale or something, but maybe its about time..

Dale I guess everything is relative if you want it to be relative... I dont think its reduntant to consider battery size if someone have gone through the whole process of making a bright single cell light... Especially if a user have bought a light, new emitter, maybe special FET driver or well stacked 7135 driver, AR lens , maybe cooper pill and such, and then cheap out on battery format... The most important factor in order to maintain high output and get to it after basic mods are done..

Just to put some comparison graphs in this thread.

Panasonic 18650PF vs KK ICR 4200mAh  (its PF cell inside Orbtronic 18650PD)

Samsung 20R vs Sony SE US26650VT..

The Keepower 3500mAh IMR you mentioned offer quite similar performance and more capacity compared to the Sony. For most people that would be the better cell.. The Sony cell is better suited at higher currents (More like 10A and higher). 

7-10A is normal for our (single emitter single XM-L2) lights? Id like to see someone hit 7A at the emitter in a real flashlight with the best possible single 26650 or 18650 cell and an XM-L2. And preferably stay there for more than 2 seconds too...

The 20R and similar cells might give marginally better peak number when freshly charged, then voltage goes down like a rook compared to a good 26650 cell... This is why I say real world.. you seem to be very focused on the peak performance the first minute with a freshly charged cell..  In your book that would make the red graph from the 20R cell better. In my book the Sony 26650 cell spanks the 20R and probably every other 18650 cell when it comes to its ability to maintain voltage in real life use, not just a peak numbers test... I seriously doubt the latest 18650 have made much progress from the 20R...

I have bought my Sony 26650 cells from WB in the past, usually on sale...

I apologize in advance if any of my posts seems harsh or condensing in some way. As someone who is also interested in high output in many of my builds, I just find the extreme focus on the absolute peak numbers quite stupid at times, especially when they go at the expensive of other things that are actually noticeable. 

BLF LED database – collaboration spreadsheet and latest news about where to buy LEDs
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/19342

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