Finally the XHP70.2 emerges!

347 posts / 0 new
Last post
djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 55 min ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 18318
Location: Amsterdam

Davevo 5k wrote:
Thanks djozz

So 5.5 amps should do the trick then being as 11 amps is what I have seen mostly what people use in 6v config.

btw this is not for a flashlight set up but automotive use, and will have proper fan assisted heatsink cooler.


There is a consideration: 11A (or 5,5A at 12V) is already very hard driven, the official maximum drive current is 4.8A at 6V. What we test over here does not include longterm effects, we simply do not care much about that because 1 year later a new better led appears and the old is forgotten or replaced. But it may be something to consider in what you are building. (or not Party )
Davevo 5k
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 10 months ago
Joined: 03/16/2015 - 07:04
Posts: 76
Location: UK

They are going to be main beam headlights so will only be on for very short periods.. I will prob run them at less than 11A though maybe 8 or 9

I needed to confirm the 5.5A part so when I’m testing etc I had a figure to set myself as a max.

Thanks for your help.

Dave.

Tjhosan
Tjhosan's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 1 month ago
Joined: 03/29/2016 - 16:21
Posts: 110
Location: Sweden

Just put a xhp70.2 p2 3b from kaidomain in my L6 with a TA driver running narsil from Lexel.

It pulls 18 amps at startup from a couple of liitokala 26650.

Holy shit! It gets hot about as fast as my S41 haha

Sadly i dont have any way to measure lumens, but from you other ppls test i guesstimate it should be over 8k otf lumens am i right?
It certainly looks like it Cool

Enderman
Enderman's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 18 hours ago
Joined: 11/03/2016 - 22:42
Posts: 4292
Location: Vancouver, Canada

I run my XHP70 at 12A 6V, you will definitely be fine at 5.5A 12V if you have a good cooler on it, like a mid/high end computer CPU cooler.
Remember to use good thermal paste (I recommend MX-4) and screw the PCB securely to the cooler in some day.
Nearly 100W of heat will need be dissipated.

Davevo 5k
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 10 months ago
Joined: 03/16/2015 - 07:04
Posts: 76
Location: UK

Thanks Enderman.

Will be using 4 of these https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rj...

CSL8025MP

2 will be used for 2 XHP70.2 other 2 will be used for 2 CREE CXA 1850 arrays.

Enderman
Enderman's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 18 hours ago
Joined: 11/03/2016 - 22:42
Posts: 4292
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Looks good.

tekwyzrd
tekwyzrd's picture
Offline
Last seen: 12 months 2 days ago
Joined: 11/14/2015 - 01:15
Posts: 1340
Location: Northeastern Ohio

I installed an XHP70.2 N4 5700K on a maxtoch 32mm (mtnelectronics) in my chimera. Downsized the wires to 22 awg and used a few extra inches of wire to add a little extra resistance and eliminated one of the 22 awg jumpers on the tailboard. With 2s4p ncr18650b powering the TA srk driver from Lexel all I can say is “WOW!”, even looking at the beam on the white wall in the middle of the afternoon. I made the mistake of looking at the beam on the wall a little too long and had artifacts in my field of vision for several minutes. Not too fond of the yellowish corona but otherwise it’s a nice beam. I guess I need to cobble together a fixture to measure the output.

Looking forward to seeing the output after it gets really dark outside.

Nothing travels faster than the speed of light with the possible exception of bad news, which obeys its own special laws. – Douglas Adams

solRNY
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 1 week ago
Joined: 03/27/2017 - 17:24
Posts: 219
Location: Syracuse, NY

just sliced the dome of a xhp70.2, but found only 2 of the 4 led are turning on, not sure what went wrong. anyone with same experience?

MRsDNF
MRsDNF's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 12/22/2011 - 21:18
Posts: 13473
Location: A light beam away from the missus in the land of Aus.

Low voltage?

 

djozz quotes, "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

                      "My man mousehole needs one too"

old4570 said "I'm not an expert , so don't suffer from any such technical restrictions".

Old-Lumens. Highly admired and cherished member of Budget Light Forum. 11.5.2011 - 20.12.16. RIP.

 

Jerommel
Jerommel's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 13 min ago
Joined: 01/04/2014 - 13:18
Posts: 6383
Location: the Hague, Netherlands

Hey guys,
Fasttech has XHP70.2 N4 3A in stock.
https://www.fasttech.com/p/8287200
3A is the best tint i.m.o.

AlexGT
AlexGT's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 19 hours ago
Joined: 06/07/2012 - 17:39
Posts: 4654
Location: Texas

Has anyone done a current / output graph on the XHP70.2??? Have a link? Thanks! Smile

Texas_Ace
Texas_Ace's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 53 min ago
Joined: 03/24/2016 - 07:44
Posts: 9499
Location: Everything is brighter in Texas
AlexGT wrote:
Has anyone done a current / output graph on the XHP70.2??? Have a link? Thanks! Smile

Djozz tested one but never posted the results as he was getting slightly different results then TomE and some others IIRC.

From what he said it sounds like it pretty much mimics the XP-L2 in the curve though, which makes sense, it is 4 of them put together. So you should be able to roughly look at the XP-L2 and multiply it by 4x.

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 55 min ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 18318
Location: Amsterdam

Yes, as usual I tested one led, and it had its maximum first at 12A and then I reflowed and mounted the same led again more carefully and its maximum was 12.5A. But both Tom and Kawi (in their flashlight builds) reported an output increase when going from 15A to 20A, so that made me doubt about my led and/or my test set-up for these extreme high power leds. Unfortunately these leds are costly so I had no spare one to sacrifice.

If I post my test results they will have to be accompanied by this consideration but usually my graphs are used without the story so until I sorted out where the discrepancy comes from, I rather not post anything at all.

AlexGT
AlexGT's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 19 hours ago
Joined: 06/07/2012 - 17:39
Posts: 4654
Location: Texas

What output would you expect to see from an XHP70.2 in P2 Bin when driven at 5Amps? Thanks!

Texas_Ace
Texas_Ace's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 53 min ago
Joined: 03/24/2016 - 07:44
Posts: 9499
Location: Everything is brighter in Texas

Rough guess would put around or slightly over 4000 lumens if I had to guess.

djozz
djozz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 55 min ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 18318
Location: Amsterdam

Sorry Alex, I’m not at home for the next 8 days (holiday with family in Cornwall, fun in classic cornish weather: lots of rain and wind Party ) so I have my data not at hand.

vestureofblood
vestureofblood's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 5 min ago
Joined: 08/17/2012 - 15:21
Posts: 2036
Location: Missouri

Hi all,

Do these emitters display the same nasty color blending issues that XPG3 does? One color (pink usually) in the center with another orange/green color round the edges?

In Him (Jesus Christ) was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
http://asflashlights.com/ Everyday Carry Flashlights, plus Upgrades for Maglite.

AlexGT
AlexGT's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 19 hours ago
Joined: 06/07/2012 - 17:39
Posts: 4654
Location: Texas

Yes, I have a XHP70.2 P2 1C tint the main beam is has a nice cool white uniform color but the corona has a yellowish tint. Sad

Kind of like this, Credit for the image goes to member wkhchin81

vestureofblood
vestureofblood's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 5 min ago
Joined: 08/17/2012 - 15:21
Posts: 2036
Location: Missouri

Thanks Alex. I can see the pink around the hot spot there too. Man, I cant remember when I got so picky, but it sure makes things a challenge. Big Smile

In Him (Jesus Christ) was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
http://asflashlights.com/ Everyday Carry Flashlights, plus Upgrades for Maglite.

JasonWW
JasonWW's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 18 hours ago
Joined: 10/22/2016 - 11:41
Posts: 12941
Location: Houston Texas

Tjhosan wrote:
Just put a xhp70.2 p2 3b from kaidomain in my L6 with a TA driver running narsil from Lexel.

It pulls 18 amps at startup from a couple of liitokala 26650.

Holy shit! It gets hot about as fast as my S41 haha

Sadly i dont have any way to measure lumens, but from you other ppls test i guesstimate it should be over 8k otf lumens am i right?
It certainly looks like it Cool


I just put a xhp70.2 p2 1d from Mountain Electronics in my L6 with a TA driver running narsil from Lexel.

It pulls 17.3 amps after 20 seconds from a couple of liitokala 26650.

I’ll post some beam shots later directly comparing it to the xhp70. So far it seems to have a less noticeable donut hole shape.

Texas Ace Lumen Tube and JoshK Sphere calibrated with Maukka lights

Click this to go to signature links. I'm still around, just not reading many new threads.

vestureofblood
vestureofblood's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 5 min ago
Joined: 08/17/2012 - 15:21
Posts: 2036
Location: Missouri

Has anybody run “the test” on these yet to see where the point of no return is on current?

In Him (Jesus Christ) was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
http://asflashlights.com/ Everyday Carry Flashlights, plus Upgrades for Maglite.

JasonWW
JasonWW's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 18 hours ago
Joined: 10/22/2016 - 11:41
Posts: 12941
Location: Houston Texas

vestureofblood wrote:
Has anybody run “the test” on these yet to see where the point of no return is on current?

Hard to say. With fresh cells in my L6 and pulling 17.3 amps, I’d say 25 to 30 seconds is all I’d be willing to run it at full tilt. It gets hot really quick.

I’m glad I’ve got the ramping firmware so I can dial it back a bit and save full power for special occasions.

If a person wanted to push it harder, at say 20 or 22 amps, to find the limit, how would they do that? Use a power supply to increase the voltage?

Texas Ace Lumen Tube and JoshK Sphere calibrated with Maukka lights

Click this to go to signature links. I'm still around, just not reading many new threads.

scianiac
scianiac's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 3 months ago
Joined: 02/05/2015 - 18:50
Posts: 211
Location: Northeast, US

My quick, “just out of curiosity test” it seemed to tap out around 21A or so, with substantial cooling…

Co-owner/Engineer at STO Flashlights.

Texas_Ace
Texas_Ace's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 53 min ago
Joined: 03/24/2016 - 07:44
Posts: 9499
Location: Everything is brighter in Texas

He is using a TA driver IIRC, so the losses in the driver are very minimal (the same as a few inches of wire). It doesn’t actually adjust the power, it simply turns it on and off very fast so it appears to dim.

JasonWW
JasonWW's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 18 hours ago
Joined: 10/22/2016 - 11:41
Posts: 12941
Location: Houston Texas

Ollie wrote:
JasonWW, Not to be snotty, but of that 17Amps, how much of that is being consumed by the LED, and how much by the driver. The reason I like hardwired DD is because your tailcap amperage reading correlates with emitter consumption. Anytime you run the power through a current adjusting driver, the driver itself is consuming power, and contributing to the overall heat load. When building flamethrower flashlights, heat dissipation is the limiting factor. Anything that makes heat but produces no light is reducing the overall efficiency of the light. Ollie
I don’t know. All I can only tell you is I’m using a INI-T UT210 clamp meter in place of the tail cap and a big wire just like most others on this forum use to measure.

As far as driver efficiency, I’ll refer to what TA said as it’s his driver design.

Personally, I’ve always heard that fet drivers were quit cool running and very efficient at full power.

Texas Ace Lumen Tube and JoshK Sphere calibrated with Maukka lights

Click this to go to signature links. I'm still around, just not reading many new threads.

Texas_Ace
Texas_Ace's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 53 min ago
Joined: 03/24/2016 - 07:44
Posts: 9499
Location: Everything is brighter in Texas

Ollie wrote:
TA, I’m going to ask some questions that are for my own education, so you are under no obligation to take your time to answer. But, here goes: How fast? I got to thinking about LED rise and decay times. How fast are they? Could the PWM be fast enough so that the LED never fully turns on, or off? If so, it could act like a current limited circuit. It would be very efficient. The other thing I was thinking about was a squaring circuit, or something that functions like one. An LED acts a bit like that, with a definite threshold voltage. So you could feed it a sine wave voltage form, and adjust the average voltage to vary the percentage of the voltage curve above the threshold. Make the sine wave of a high enough frequency, and the PWM would be very smooth. And while I’m noodling around, does this all mean that PWM is really an efficient way of regulating output?

These drivers PWM at around 18khz IIRC, not super fast but more then fast enough to not be noticeable to the human eye.

I have never looked up the exact rise and decay times for LED’s but it is really fast. At the rates we PMW it is turning all the way on and off for sure.

I suppose it is possible to make it fast enough to not fully turn it on, I have considered this myself. The issue here is that depending on how fast that needs to be you run into losses switching the FET that fast.

You can actually use a normal FET with a few extra components to create a linear regulator that would basically do what you are thinking of but it would also burn all the excess voltage as heat. This is the fundamental problem with this idea. The excess voltage has to go somewhere and I am not sure that it is possible to reach a balance where it is not all or mostly burned off as heat.

now burning it off as heat is just fine, same thing we do with 7135’s but you are also limited in how much you can burn off before you melt the FET. From testing this appears to be around ~2W of heat dissipation in most cases.

It is possible that you could time things just right to PWM it without a lot of losses and still get reasonably good efficiency but I have a feeling that the LED efficiency would suffer in other ways. It would be interesting to test but I doubt that it would be worth pursuing. At the very least you would need to use FET’s with much higher resistance then we use now and that would not be ideal for max power.

maukka
maukka's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 12/31/2015 - 04:15
Posts: 2176
Location: Finland
Ollie wrote:
I got to thinking about LED rise and decay times. How fast are they? Could the PWM be fast enough so that the LED never fully turns on, or off? If so, it could act like a current limited circuit. It would be very efficient.

Just a quick test on a Jaxman E2L with triple XP-G2. Thorlabs DET36A/M as sensor.

Rise and fall times are below 1 microsecond. The PWM would have to be in the several megahertz range to hide the PWM.

Texas_Ace
Texas_Ace's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 53 min ago
Joined: 03/24/2016 - 07:44
Posts: 9499
Location: Everything is brighter in Texas

Good info^! So yeah, kinda like I figured, while technically possible to switch an FET that fast you would end up with as much or higher losses in the FET as you would either going with an linear regulator or normal PWM from an efficiency standpoint all things taken into account.

If a super fast FET’ was used or if we used 2 separate FET’s then it could be possible I suppose. Complicated but possible. Although I still have serious doubt that you would gain much of anything tangible from such a setup.

JasonWW
JasonWW's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 18 hours ago
Joined: 10/22/2016 - 11:41
Posts: 12941
Location: Houston Texas

JasonWW wrote:

I just put a xhp70.2 p2 1d from Mountain Electronics in my L6 with a TA driver running narsil from Lexel.

It pulls 17.3 amps after 20 seconds from a couple of liitokala 26650.

I’ll post some beam shots later directly comparing it to the xhp70. So far it seems to have a less noticeable donut hole shape.


Here are some beam shots you might find useful.

The new 70.2 does have less of a donut hole pattern. It’s not gone completely, but much better than the xhp70.

The first 2 photos below are a direct comparison of the 70 and 70.2 on my L6 with the same reflector height.

.

If I move my reflector away from the emitter just a little, the donut hole reduces more. See below.

Now when you look at these lights without the lower exposure, the donut shapes are much harder to see. The hotspot of the 70.2, which is shimmed out looks really smooth and has sharply defined edges.

Here are the same 3 photos as above, but normal exposure values.

I’ve only had the 70.2 in my light a few days and the batteries are already running down. It seems like I’m getting less than half the run time compared to the xhp70. I’m not using it much at full output, then again, maybe I do have it adjusted a bit brighter than the xhp70. I typically go full power then drop it down a little. That way I’m getting close to full brightness, but with noticably less heat. I’ll report back on the battery usage in a week or two. First impressions are it can can suck batteries dry quick! Lol

Texas Ace Lumen Tube and JoshK Sphere calibrated with Maukka lights

Click this to go to signature links. I'm still around, just not reading many new threads.

JasonWW
JasonWW's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 18 hours ago
Joined: 10/22/2016 - 11:41
Posts: 12941
Location: Houston Texas

Brightness is the same. The camera just made it look brighter for some reason. I didn’t notice this at the time. You can see the background lighting and street lighting are all a little brighter as well. I think the color temp of that photo is also a bit different. I’ll try to adjust it to match the others later.

Texas Ace Lumen Tube and JoshK Sphere calibrated with Maukka lights

Click this to go to signature links. I'm still around, just not reading many new threads.

Pages