TK's Emisar D4 review

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BigusLightus
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I’ve got plenty of batteries just waiting for something like this. This is exciting. When can I get one? What are my color choices?

djozz
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djozz wrote:
Has anyone before in these 4700 posts actually checked this?

And where in the driver is this power (24W!) burnt off? Shocked (the light is fine after 10 seconds reverse battery contact).


I guess that I’m the only one that is concerned about a 6A current and 24W of heat produced in the head when the battery is reversed. Say I put in a 30Q in a D4 the wrong way, close up the tail and do not check if it works and put it away. The sustainable power for this size light is about 8W so it gets hot fast. Perhaps some part on the driver will go at some point, will it break the circuitry or will it create a dead short?

I think that it would be a good idea for Hank to address this problem.

hIKARInoob
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djozz wrote:
djozz wrote:
Has anyone before in these 4700 posts actually checked this?

And where in the driver is this power (24W!) burnt off? Shocked (the light is fine after 10 seconds reverse battery contact).


I guess that I’m the only one that is concerned about a 6A current and 24W of heat produced in the head when the battery is reversed. Say I put in a 30Q in a D4 the wrong way, close up the tail and do not check if it works and put it away. The sustainable power for this size light is about 8W so it gets hot fast. Perhaps some part on the driver will go at some point, will it break the circuitry or will it create a dead short?

I think that it would be a good idea for Hank to address this problem.

This is already known. I didn’t know it was “just” 6A instead of short circuit. Yeah, the light protects itself, but a dangerous situation is created if you leave the light like that. I think Hank already knows as well…

Geuzzz
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You are not the only one. It was already concluded by someone here that the reverse polarity protection was a flaw, was it toykeeper??

You probably should stop doing this Big Smile

iamlucky13
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djozz wrote:
I guess that I’m the only one that is concerned about a 6A current and 24W of heat produced in the head when the battery is reversed.

You’re not the only one. I just don’t have a resolution except to consider this one of the reasons casual users should not buy this light.

I’m actually a bit surprised 6A for 10 seconds didn’t kill the light. The driver PCB is fiberglass, right? So it’s not going to take much heat away from whatever component is soaking it up, nor get that heat to the head very quickly so a user can feel the warming, indicating that something is wrong.

MascaratumB
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An early post of TK answering (before it was know that it didn’t have protection)
http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1159004#comment-1159004

Since then, it was discussed some time ago, from here onwards:
http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1195114#comment-1195114

Also, TK’s post after that:
http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1195123#comment-1195123

Glad I never managed to put the battery in reverse position Facepalm

DB Custom
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We’ve pretty much all known since we were toddlers not to stick screwdrivers in wall outlets. We survive those little holes in the wall, perhaps we can put a battery in a flashlight the right way…

ToyKeeper
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Edness wrote:
Just saw pictures of D4S on FB. 26650 version of the D4.

Yeah, Neal posted that on facebook.

I don’t think he was supposed to reveal it yet… I think Hank wanted to be the one to announce his new product. But Neal can only keep a secret for about 5 seconds. Sad

MascaratumB wrote:
Time to open a thread about the new one?

I’m hoping to do a review soon, if a D4S shows up in the mail. I’m going on a trip soon though, so I’m not sure if there will be time before I go.

Yourrid wrote:
Other than better heat dissipation, can we expect the same output and emitters from the D4S as we are seeing with the original D4?

I gave Hank some emitter suggestions, but I don’t know if he’ll do what I suggested.

Specifically, I told him he could avoid the heat issues of the 90CRI 219c by using 90CRI LH351D instead. And I told him people would really like a 4500K version using two 4000K and two 5000K emitters.

I hope he’ll make that happen, but I have no confirmation about it either way.

djozz wrote:
Has anyone before in these 4700 posts actually checked this? [pic showing current flowing with battery reversed) And where in the driver is this power (24W!) burnt off? Shocked (the light is fine after 10 seconds reverse battery contact).

The reverse polarity behavior was noticed fairly early on, and I notified Hank, but I don’t think he ever fixed it. It doesn’t seem damage the driver, but it can damage the battery.

It appears to be fixed in the D4S. I checked a moment ago, and my DMM measured zero on a prototype with the battery inserted backward. The same DMM measures about 4A to 6A on a D4 with the battery in backward.

iamlucky13 wrote:
I wonder if the additional height also fits in any changes to the driver.

Given more PCB area, it seems pretty reasonable that additional 7135’s could be added, although that doesn’t add height.

First, I just want to note that iamlucky13 currently has exactly 13 posts. Smile

About the driver though, it does have some changes compared to the D4/D1/D1S. I don’t have a production model yet though, so I’m not sure what all the changes are.

It seems one change is fixing the reverse polarity protection.

djozz
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Thanks for pointing out the previous discussion, I missed it at the time but this afternoon I did find a short discussion without much detail on reddit.

But is there someone with enough knowledge of the driver to point out in what component(s) that heat is generated?

The reason I’m concerned is that I have build D4 with 2700K 90 CRI 219C leds for a lighting enthousiast, but who is new to flashlights. His first question, by email, when he received the D4 that I sent him (with battery and charger) was : “what direction should the battery go?”. He luckily had some sense that he could damage something by inserting it backwards but what direction is automatic for us is clearly not automatic for the rest of the world (he is a pretty smart guy). At that point I told him the right direction and eased his mind that the D4 was reverse polarity protected so nothing would have happened anyway (so later I had to update this story for him).

Thing is that the D4 takes such good care of the battery and the heat by means of the firmware that I did not expect it to have some silly hardware flaw that instantly makes it a dangerous light for anyone not knowledgable about the background of this light (including me even so it turns out).

The guy is smart enough to after the update use his D4 now in a safe way and so am I.

djozz
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Quote:
ToyKeeper wrote: It appears to be fixed in the D4S. I checked a moment ago, and my DMM measured zero on a prototype with the battery inserted backward. The same DMM measures about 4A to 6A on a D4 with the battery in backward.

I’m glad to hear that Smile

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I can at least confirm that the D4S is throwier than the D4, and it has a nice beam with only minimal artifacts. It has a round hotspot, a reflector-like spill area, and then some mild extra junk outside the edge of the spill.

It also has cyan-colored aux LEDs under the optic, 16 of them, which work like tritium vials.

It’s a D4, but sized for a 26650 cell, throwier, and with some other misc improvements.

Edit: Oh, um, my prototype uses XP-L HI 3A. I’m not sure how the beam looks with other emitters.

djozz
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ToyKeeper wrote:

It also has cyan-colored aux LEDs under the optic, 16 of them, which work like tritium vials.


I like that type of bling Thumbs Up
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djozz wrote:
ToyKeeper wrote:
It also has cyan-colored aux LEDs under the optic, 16 of them, which work like tritium vials.
I like that type of bling Thumbs Up

I’m not a huge fan of trits under optics, but I like this. It can be enabled when it’s useful and turned off the rest of the time. Smile

iamlucky13
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ToyKeeper wrote:

iamlucky13 wrote:
I wonder if the additional height also fits in any changes to the driver.

Given more PCB area, it seems pretty reasonable that additional 7135’s could be added, although that doesn’t add height.

First, I just want to note that iamlucky13 currently has exactly 13 posts. Smile

About the driver though, it does have some changes compared to the D4/D1/D1S. I don’t have a production model yet though, so I’m not sure what all the changes are.

It seems one change is fixing the reverse polarity protection.

Neat. I’ll have to never post again to preserve that match.

Oh wait. D’oh!

It will be interesting to hear about the changes once those can be shared.

hIKARInoob
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Same problem as with the Haikelite SC26; now what 26650 cell should I get…?

severide
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ToyKeeper wrote:
I can at least confirm that the D4S is throwier than the D4, and it has a nice beam with only minimal artifacts. It has a round hotspot, a reflector-like spill area, and then some mild extra junk outside the edge of the spill.

It also has cyan-colored aux LEDs under the optic, 16 of them, which work like tritium vials.

It’s a D4, but sized for a 26650 cell, throwier, and with some other misc improvements.

Edit: Oh, um, my prototype uses XP-L HI 3A. I’m not sure how the beam looks with other emitters.

noooice! looking forward to this. thanks for sharing

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just ordered a Shockli 26650 fm Mtn Electronics for my Rofis MR70, almost ordered two anticipating the D4s.
Butt the D4 was picky about its battery fit, so I’ll wait a bit.

DB Custom
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I have Shockli’s, black wrapped and blue wrapped LiitoKala’s and the black wrapped LiitoKala’s seem to perform best if absolutes matter. Wink

The Black LiitoKala’s best Efests of dark and light purple, red too. As well as Gold King Kongs and orange MNKE’s and green Moli’s, KeepPower 5200’s and Basen’s…. I, uh, have a lot of cells. Blushing The discontinued orange Powerizer LiNiMnCo’s were probably the best, a short cell with high delivery. Been out of population for a while now.

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chinooker wrote:
just ordered a Shockli 26650 fm Mtn Electronics for my Rofis MR70, almost ordered two anticipating the D4s. Butt the D4 was picky about its battery fit, so I’ll wait a bit.

I actually don’t know for sure if those will fit. I only have one 26650 cell and it didn’t fit in my prototype. But Hank tells me the battery tube has been changed to fit bigger cells. And not only is the Shockli the highest-capacity cell in RMM’s store, it’s also one of the smaller 26650 cells. So I think it’ll probably be okay.

Meanwhile, I’ve been testing with a 18650 wrapped in packing foam.

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hIKARInoob wrote:
Well if the D4 is transposed to the D4S, then maybe Hank will turn the D4 into a Meteor M43 like light; basically four D4 lights into one M43 form factor with 4×4 emitters.

Soooo… A M44? Probably the only thing holding me back from the M43 is the firmware (and it’s not easily changed?). An M44 with D4 firmware, and with a new flash friendly driver, I wouldn’t hesitate buying another light I have no use for, lol.

I wonder if the same $40 price point will stick for the D4s?

Next up, the D1s! Well, not the D1s, but the D1s. Then the D1ss?

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Received the D4 in white this day

It´s not really white, more a very light silver grey, depends a bit on the lighting conditions
and it has the grainy surface

The clip differs from the earlier version

and it fits so tight I can not move it after clipped on Shocked

Black and white Cool

doubleone44
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djozz wrote:
djozz wrote:
Has anyone before in these 4700 posts actually checked this?

And where in the driver is this power (24W!) burnt off? Shocked (the light is fine after 10 seconds reverse battery contact).


I guess that I’m the only one that is concerned about a 6A current and 24W of heat produced in the head when the battery is reversed. Say I put in a 30Q in a D4 the wrong way, close up the tail and do not check if it works and put it away. The sustainable power for this size light is about 8W so it gets hot fast. Perhaps some part on the driver will go at some point, will it break the circuitry or will it create a dead short?

I think that it would be a good idea for Hank to address this problem.

Probably FET + Battery. I shorted a D1S driver once on accident by shorting the LED leads, and the FET burned through (very smelly, would not recommend).

will34
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Is there a possibility that Hank considers producing a 21700 tube?

I’ve been EDCing my D4 219C lately and the only thing that bothers me is the heat at max level, with LH351D and larger body it should perform pretty amazing. We should persuade Hank to make it into an emitter option.

MascaratumB
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ToyKeeper wrote:
[…]
MascaratumB wrote:
Time to open a thread about the new one?

I’m hoping to do a review soon, if a D4S shows up in the mail. I’m going on a trip soon though, so I’m not sure if there will be time before I go. […]

That is completely fine Thumbs Up I hope it does appear in the mail !
Guess I will have to think of buying my first 26650s Innocent

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will34 wrote:
I’ve been EDCing my D4 219C lately and the only thing that bothers me is the heat at max level, with LH351D and larger body it should perform pretty amazing. We should persuade Hank to make it into an emitter option.

3500k 90CRI LH351D (or even in the more traditional 4000k-5000k range) would probably make me buy one, and I don’t even own any 26650s.

ToyKeeper
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Okay, the review unit is here.

I’ll have to thank Hank for sending a black-colored light for photography purposes. Those are always the easiest to get good pictures of. Silly

Also, it’s cool white. So I’ll want to swap the emitters. And it has no O-rings, so I’ll probably transfer the rings from the dev prototype. And no label on the tailcap.

So it’s not quite a production unit, but it’s pretty close.

bmengineer
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It’s not a production unit, just the production aluminium.

Find all my reviews of flashlights and more gear at www.bmengineer.com

ToyKeeper
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Okay, the D4S review is up:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/61509

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Nice.. look forward to get one .

T18
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Awesome review TK, it seems every time I decide to slow down on buying lights along comes one like this D4S that just can’t be ignored,
This light is spectacular and your pictures really confirm that,

Have a wonderful trip.

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