WildTrail WT90 - SBT90.2 1800m+ throw 90mm 3x 21700 With Texas_Ace driver

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Texas_Ace
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Lux-Perpetua wrote:

BTW: I had a brief chat with Vapcell today. The Lishen LR2170LA 4000mAh battery seems to be a good and inexpensive alternative to Samsung’s 40T battery. Maybe there’s an opportunity that WildTrail can stock up some of these batteries and ship them integrated into WT90. This could be a nice option to those who like to buy WT90 with high drain batteries. Will talk to Jacky about it.

I doubt he will be shipping batteries with the lights sadly. He tried to do this with me but it got caught in customs and returned to him.

Texas_Ace
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Artiet59 wrote:
Tom or TA – Do you estimate a drop / significant drop in measurements of lumens and throw due to changing from 14awg wires in the prototype Tom is testing to the production unit? It makes me wonder why they would go with such a THICK wire thickness in the prototype and change it for production. i understand the reflector clearance aspect, but seems like an important change considering output and resistance? Maybe i’m wrong? I just know i’m never going to be changing my driver wires to increase output lol..

Not that much of a difference. It arrived with some smaller wires when I first got it and I am the one that installed the 14AWG in it to see the best case scenario as they were having clearance issues and wondering the best option for the wires in a production line setup.

Fitting that 14awg was a big hassle and no way it could be done on a production line, took me like 45 mins of tweaking to get it installed and not shorting out.

That said even with the single thinner wires it came with, I surprisingly only saw minor gains with the swap, something like 5% on my tube. So 2 of the wires they had in it (they didn’t say the size) should close that gap even more.

Overall I don’t see it being a big issue in output on a stock light. Based on that testing.

Artiet59
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Thank you for the info TA. Good to know, I just didn’t want to have to start thinking about potentially considering swapping driver wires out, i probably wouldn’t of anyway if I’m being honest.

Check out some of my new lights (picture heavy) and quick first impressions of them here: https://budgetlightforum.com/node/77180

djozz
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Ehm, why did I buy these? Innocent

Lux-Perpetua
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That’s one too many, Jos. Silly

@Lojik
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When is somebody gonna hurry up and take my money for this already???

Does anybody know if people be offered one of these in the order of their post here or will it be offered generally again and then it’ll be first come first serve?

I NEED to make sure I’m one of the ones that’s in for one of these!!! Wink

djozz
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Lux-Perpetua wrote:

That’s one too many, Jos. Silly


I wanted one extra to check out on other lights, these test by HKJ as really good high drain cells, and are cheaper than 40T’s at Nkon. Smile
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@Lojik wrote:
When is somebody gonna hurry up and take my money for this already???

Does anybody know if people be offered one of these in the order of their post here or will it be offered generally again and then it’ll be first come first serve?

I NEED to make sure I’m one of the ones that’s in for one of these!!! Wink

TA said the silver model would be honored based on post order.

Tom E
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Think I have only a pair of P42A's, should get more. They have the initial dip compared to a 40T so don't look good for 0-30 sec tests, but slighter better then the 40T for the full period of drain, and of course slightly higher capacity.

Looking at the specs from HKJ's reviews, the cycle life looks way better:

  P42A:  Cycle life: 500 cycles at 4.2A charge and 10A discharge for 80%

  40T:     Cycle life: 250 cycles to 60% at 6A charge and 35A discharge

Charge rates are different, but still... Hhhmmmm. Those high charge rates we don't do, so I'm not even sure this info is relevant.

 

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djozz wrote:
Lux-Perpetua wrote:

That’s one too many, Jos. Silly

I wanted one extra to check out on other lights, these test by HKJ as really good high drain cells, and are cheaper than 40T's at Nkon. :-)

I was only teasing, lol. Wink But WildTrail has got more in the oven already, so don’t put that extra battery too far away. Smile Last but not least, I agree the P42A on NKON was an offer too good to let pass. I just figured I didn’t buy enough for a triple battery light.  Facepalm 

 

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By the way, Jacky gave me some explanations concerning the battery carrier and the two LEDs in the center part that indicate the charging/discharging status. I will soon post some more information here, maybe including some first hand videos for illustration. He is now checking cut-off voltage when discharging via USB-C. I was also very pleased to hear that WT90 will work with smart chargers, i.e. type C to type C cables.

TA, I guess I will keep you busy posting another new link for the updated manual, lol. Silly Anyway, it will hopefully be the last update, so the print job can commence by the end of this week.

Artiet59
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Tom E wrote:

Think I have only a pair of P42A’s, should get more. They have the initial dip compared to a 40T so don’t look good for 0-30 sec tests, but slighter better then the 40T for the full period of drain, and of course slightly higher capacity.


Looking at the specs from HKJ’s reviews, the cycle life looks way better:


  P42A:  Cycle life: 500 cycles at 4.2A charge and 10A discharge for 80%


  40T:     Cycle life: 250 cycles to 60% at 6A charge and 35A discharge


Charge rates are different, but still… Hhhmmmm. Those high charge rates we don’t do, so I’m not even sure this info is relevant.


 


Is it just me or are those two comp’s impossible to decifer? P42a tested at 10amp discharge and 40t tested at a 35 amp discharge??

Anyway, I have quite a few p42a’s, identical performance to 40t, guaranteed fresh cells if buying from authorized dealers, and in 2021 at least half the price as a 40t. Mooch has some good relevant info on how they measure up (and surpass technically) the 40t, except for that first 30 seconds like you said.

Check out some of my new lights (picture heavy) and quick first impressions of them here: https://budgetlightforum.com/node/77180

Artiet59
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@Lojik wrote:
When is somebody gonna hurry up and take my money for this already???

Does anybody know if people be offered one of these in the order of their post here or will it be offered generally again and then it’ll be first come first serve?

I NEED to make sure I’m one of the ones that’s in for one of these!!! Wink


Agreed! I don’t want to annoy the crap out of TA anymore, so I’m glad you said it first! I’m ready to pay lol.

Check out some of my new lights (picture heavy) and quick first impressions of them here: https://budgetlightforum.com/node/77180

@Lojik
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JordanZHP wrote:
@Lojik wrote:
When is somebody gonna hurry up and take my money for this already???

Does anybody know if people be offered one of these in the order of their post here or will it be offered generally again and then it’ll be first come first serve?

I NEED to make sure I’m one of the ones that’s in for one of these!!! Wink

TA said the silver model would be honored based on post order.

Oh man, now I’m gonna have to go back and count how many requested a silver one before me. I requested mine on the 150th post so I gotta read all 149 before me and see if I made the cut.

Thanks for the info.

@Lojik
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Artiet59 wrote:
@Lojik wrote:
When is somebody gonna hurry up and take my money for this already???

Does anybody know if people be offered one of these in the order of their post here or will it be offered generally again and then it’ll be first come first serve?

I NEED to make sure I’m one of the ones that’s in for one of these!!! Wink


Agreed! I don’t want to annoy the crap out of TA anymore, so I’m glad you said it first! I’m ready to pay lol.

Riiiight, there are new posts on this everyday and I can’t take it!!!!! I need the peace and comfort of knowing it’s been ordered already so I can go on with my life. Smile

@Lojik
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Lojik</em> wrote: </div><blockquote class="quote-msg quote-nest-2 even"><div class="quote-author"><em class="placeholder">JordanZHP</em> wrote: </div><blockquote class="quote-msg quote-nest-3 odd"><div class="quote-author"><em class="placeholder">Lojik wrote:
When is somebody gonna hurry up and take my money for this already???

Does anybody know if people be offered one of these in the order of their post here or will it be offered generally again and then it’ll be first come first serve?

I NEED to make sure I’m one of the ones that’s in for one of these!!! Wink

TA said the silver model would be honored based on post order.

Oh man, now I’m gonna have to go back and count how many requested a silver one before me. I requested mine on the 150th post so I gotta read all 149 before me and see if I made the cut.

Thanks for the info.

I just counted and there are about 21-22 silver requests before me so if there are 25 exactly like we’re told…I should be in for a silver of the first batch. HELL!!! YEAH!!!!

I guess I will be incessantly looking for my invite to buy that bad boy everyday until it happens.

northbeard
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Okay, I’ve been really good this year and sat on my hands on a couple of other options… Please put me in for a raw/clear ano one.

I like the sound of those P42A batteries too. Will have to source some.

Texas_Ace
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JordanZHP wrote:
@Lojik wrote:
When is somebody gonna hurry up and take my money for this already???

Does anybody know if people be offered one of these in the order of their post here or will it be offered generally again and then it’ll be first come first serve?

I NEED to make sure I’m one of the ones that’s in for one of these!!! Wink

TA said the silver model would be honored based on post order.

Correct, although they also said they will be putting in an order for more silver lights that should be ready in 30-40 days, so anyone that misses out on the first batch won’t have to wait that long to get a silver light.

Texas_Ace
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Lojik</em> wrote: </div><blockquote class="quote-msg quote-nest-2 even"><div class="quote-author"><em class="placeholder">Artiet59</em> wrote: </div><blockquote class="quote-msg quote-nest-3 odd"><div class="quote-author"><em class="placeholder">Lojik wrote:
When is somebody gonna hurry up and take my money for this already???

Does anybody know if people be offered one of these in the order of their post here or will it be offered generally again and then it’ll be first come first serve?

I NEED to make sure I’m one of the ones that’s in for one of these!!! Wink


Agreed! I don’t want to annoy the crap out of TA anymore, so I’m glad you said it first! I’m ready to pay lol.

Riiiight, there are new posts on this everyday and I can’t take it!!!!! I need the peace and comfort of knowing it’s been ordered already so I can go on with my life. Smile

lol, no annoyance, just busy so can’t respond as fast as sometimes. It is all Good.

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I would really like a clear one, but if they are all gone, I will take a black one.

Texas_Ace
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ferrat_val wrote:
I would really like a clear one, but if they are all gone, I will take a black one.

They are making more clear lights, it will only take about 30-40 days so worst case you can simply wait for the second batch of silver if you want as well.

Tom E
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More light mods - adding bypasses to the carrier springs

The carrier is easy to disassemble with the right tools. Believe I got this tool kit from BG. The tips seem more precise than a cheaper set I had. 22 AWG wires shown

Here's the USB charging circuit:

22 AWG bypasses installed. I usually do bypasses internal to the spring, but with the compression these springs can get and how little interior space they have, went with outside mounts that won't interfere with compression:

Results were marginal though. Probably could have used 20 AWG wire, but didn't expect much after the more significant bump with the driver spring bypass.

 

 

I did run a test with a set of 50G cells, but stopped it after 3 minutes because of heat. Outside temp reached 57C. Took a few minutes to cool down to 41-43C, where it was comfortable to hold. I don't think I gave it enough cool down time from prior turbo tests on 40T's and 30T's. After this carrier spring mod, first tested on 40T's (results above), then 30T's and got slighter lower results than the 40T's, then the 50G 3 minute test. So in between, probably should give it 15-30 mins of cool down time, but didn't.

 

Comparing these results to my Noctigon K1 with spring bypasses, the K1 on a 30T measured 22.3 amps, 5410 lumens at start (about the same the WT90 does stock).

I'd have to guess the WT90 is doing about 30 amps after these spring bypasses. I don't have an accurate way of measuring lumens on a GT90, but I'm guessing this WT90 is doing better than even my spring bypassed GT90's.

Tom E
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For that driver bit set above, BG doesn't sell it any longer (paid $17 in Dec 2019), but here's the same kit on Amazon US. I tried a couple of other kits and this one is by far the best.

My inconsistencies with throw measurements I believe is from battery charge level and cool down time. I probably should re-charge the cells after lumens testing, wait at least 30 mins for cool down, and then turn on turbo for 30 secs before hitting the meter. But to save time, I cut corners, and not being consistent with that.

Surprisingly, even if this light feels cooled down, internally it probably is not, but after the bypasses, the roughly 30 amps generates a lot of heat, just too much for any light to handle.

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So it made less throw but more lumens after the carrier bypasses?
Either way, over 1Mcd from a light this size with simple mods is very very nice! Can’t wait!

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My personal conclusion from your hard work (much appreciated! Smile ) is that the WT90 does not really require any tweeking apart from checking the screws of the battery carrier. I could not measure more than 20A when I tested the SBT90.2, but I expect 30A to be already at the wrong side of maximum output, while the (likely) 20A of the stock light feels much more comfortable to me and is pretty close to max already.

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TMaxxJJ wrote:
So it made less throw but more lumens after the carrier bypasses? Either way, over 1Mcd from a light this size with simple mods is very very nice! Can’t wait!

Guessing that is just variance in testing conditions.

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djozz wrote:
My personal conclusion from your hard work (much appreciated! Smile ) is that the WT90 does not really require any tweeking apart from checking the screws of the battery carrier. I could not measure more than 20A when I tested the SBT90.2, but I expect 30A to be already at the wrong side of maximum output, while the (likely) 20A of the stock light feels much more comfortable to me and is pretty close to max already.

This was basically my conclusion as well when messing with the prototype. Don’t get me wrong, modding it further is cool and does provide some extra output but not something I would recommend to anyone that has to ask if they should do it.

Still, really cool to see it getting over 6k lumens in modded form! To those that like to mod that is a nice result considering you don’t have to use turbo unless you need it.

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Some issues on the prototype:

  • screws in the carrier not tightened
  • switch retaining ring loose, and if tightened, activates the button
  • doesn't appear to be AR treated glass - can't notice any tint of purple, blue, yellow, etc.
  • switch LED's are 1 green (dull), 1 yellow (bright) - I do like the yellow, great if they could use 4 evenly spaced

Comments:

  • Power? Check! It's there...
  • love the light weight feel, comfortable to hold, well balanced
  • I absolutely like the look
  • very good finning
  • always wanted a power thrower in this size and the SBT90.2 is a good match. Would like to see how a Boost HX does but it needs a different driver
  • need to do more testing of USB, more runtime testing
  • Totally agree to keep it stock, but nice to see how an SBT90.2 does when pushed

Note: probably offline rest of day, another round of layoff's goin on here...

Artiet59
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Thanks for all of this testing and break down Tom! Really appreciate the work here. Maybe post a couple pics of beam shots in the next coming days? Thanks again!

Check out some of my new lights (picture heavy) and quick first impressions of them here: https://budgetlightforum.com/node/77180

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Tom E wrote:

Some issues on the prototype:



  • screws in the carrier not tightened

  • switch retaining ring loose, and if tightened, activates the button

  • doesn’t appear to be AR treated glass – can’t notice any tint of purple, blue, yellow, etc.

  • switch LED’s are 1 green (dull), 1 yellow (bright) – I do like the yellow, great if they could use 4 evenly spaced


Comments:



  • Power? Check! It’s there…

  • love the light weight feel, comfortable to hold, well balanced

  • I absolutely like the look

  • very good finning

  • always wanted a power thrower in this size and the SBT90.2 is a good match. Would like to see how a Boost HX does but it needs a different driver

  • need to do more testing of USB, more runtime testing

  • Totally agree to keep it stock, but nice to see how an SBT90.2 does when pushed


Note: probably offline rest of day, another round of layoff’s goin on here…

Thanks for all the testing, I have been swamped here so have not been able to give my input as much as normal.

The switch retaining ring has also been fixed since the prototype, this was another one of the things they are waiting on for final production.

The prototype is not using the final lens, they told me the 2 side AR coated glass is something they are still waiting on for production.

I had already mentioned the switch LED’s to them, they are considering options now. What does it look like with both the green and yellow connected? I forgot to test that but doubt it will be a viable option. The green being dimmer is simply due to the Vf differences between the LED’s, it would need a resistor adjustment.

Good luck with the layoffs!

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