WildTrail WT90 - SBT90.2 1800m+ throw 90mm 3x 21700 With Texas_Ace driver

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Lux-Perpetua
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TA, Tom E, can you please check my supplemental text for the manual below, especially in terms of the two LEDs integrated into the carrier? Jacky gave me some more information how these LEDs should work. However, he said the LEDs work in red and green color whereas the prototype seems to be using red and blue colors? I did get some videos as well but don't know how to make them run properly on BLF (will need to think of some way to get it done). Please excuse my miserable drawing skills but that's as good as it gets with the few information I have at hand...

Thank you guys!

 

Texas_Ace
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I forgot the colors and blink patterns of the LED’s, I was more focused on temps and current/voltage in my testing.

With my standard USB A 3A charger I was seeing around 1.9A of current draw, guessing it needs a PD charger for higher charge rates. Voltage stopped at 4.15v and temps were good. LED’s were a side note for me as I figured they would have the details for those.

I do remember seeing a red, yellow and green or blue LED. one of them was very dim IIRC and only really visible when the PCB removed from the carrier. That might of been the yellow? Tom would be the better one to answer the question of LED color though.

Tom E
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Surviving so far, but I'm a contractor/consultant here, not employee... Good friend though got the notice (stay 90 days and get severance).

In the proto, all I've seen is RED and GREEN. As described earlier, 1/4 is lit up solid RED, next 1/4 was blinking 4 times (75% - 99% makes sense here), and when fully charged, the blinking RED 1/4 showed solid GREEN. Could be the proto is different from the production units?

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Thank you both. So, did I get it right that one half of the ring is not lit at all? Tom, can you please check if you can use the reverse charge mode ("powerbank"), e.g. when you attach a smartphone to the battery carrier? Is there any difference in the colors and patterns? Jacky seems asleep already (CET+6 hours). Wink

Marc E
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No idea what the group buy numbers are but i’m after one if there are any left.

Apologies for such a mundane question for an exciting light but can these be locked out by the tailcap?

Texas_Ace
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Lux-Perpetua wrote:

Thank you both. So, did I get it right that one half of the ring is not lit at all? Tom, can you please check if you can use the reverse charge mode (“powerbank”), e.g. when you attach a smartphone to the battery carrier? Is there any difference in the colors and patterns? Jacky seems asleep already (CET+6 hours). Wink

I tested the power bank function and it worked good up to ~2A, started having some voltage sag at 2.5A so would generally stick to 2A or less. Not sure on LED colors.

Texas_Ace
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Marc E wrote:
No idea what the group buy numbers are but i’m after one if there are any left.

Apologies for such a mundane question for an exciting light but can these be locked out by the tailcap?

Yes, you can unscrew the battery tube a bit and lock it out.

Tom E
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Texas_Ace wrote:
Marc E wrote:
No idea what the group buy numbers are but i'm after one if there are any left. Apologies for such a mundane question for an exciting light but can these be locked out by the tailcap?
Yes, you can unscrew the battery tube a bit and lock it out.

Hhmm. Well it depends. What I'm seeing is still intermittent contact, and just the weight of the carrier will make + and - contact. It doesn't need the tail cap on to work - contact of both batt+ and batt- is made to the driver - tail contact is not necessary. If you sat the light glass end up, probably will not make contact without the tailcap on.

Tom E
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Texas_Ace wrote:
Lux-Perpetua wrote:

Thank you both. So, did I get it right that one half of the ring is not lit at all? Tom, can you please check if you can use the reverse charge mode ("powerbank"), e.g. when you attach a smartphone to the battery carrier? Is there any difference in the colors and patterns? Jacky seems asleep already (CET+6 hours). Wink

I tested the power bank function and it worked good up to ~2A, started having some voltage sag at 2.5A so would generally stick to 2A or less. Not sure on LED colors.

I'm still at work (amazingly...) so can't try til later. I see the red and green lighting up in 1/4 at a time. As you can see in the pic above of the USN circuitry, there are 4 LED's.

Texas_Ace
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Tom E wrote:

Texas_Ace wrote:
Marc E wrote:
No idea what the group buy numbers are but i’m after one if there are any left. Apologies for such a mundane question for an exciting light but can these be locked out by the tailcap?
Yes, you can unscrew the battery tube a bit and lock it out.

Hhmm. Well it depends. What I’m seeing is still intermittent contact, and just the weight of the carrier will make + and – contact. It doesn’t need the tail cap on to work – contact of both batt+ and batt- is made to the driver – tail contact is not necessary. If you sat the light glass end up, probably will not make contact without the tailcap on.

I was talking about unscrewing the battery tube vs the tailcap, when I was messing around with it it would not turn on unless it was fully screwed down, I didn’t specifically test for lockout though.

Lux-Perpetua
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Tom E wrote:
As you can see in the pic above of the USN circuitry, there are 4 LED's.
That’s really good information, thanks. I noticed it too late after my previous posting. I just sent this picture to Jacky. I hope he can confirm how these LEDs work. I must admit I get more and more confused. Maybe I should step a bit backwards and leave things on a more simplified level in the manual.  Facepalm

 

Texas_Ace
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looks like there are 7 LED’s on that PCB actually, there are 4 in the middle and then 1 for each IC bank it appears, not sure what the smaller ones do but IIRC they were super dim and not visible through the center ring.

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Tom, just realized that it seems like your going through some questionable times at work?- I hope all is well. I can imagine how stressful that is, thanks for keeping us in the loop, I’m sure your mind is on more important matters today. If I am wrong and misread your posts, then I apologize!

Check out some of my new lights (picture heavy) and quick first impressions of them here: https://budgetlightforum.com/node/77180

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Artiet59 wrote:
Tom, just realized that it seems like your going through some questionable times at work?- I hope all is well. I can imagine how stressful that is, thanks for keeping us in the loop, I'm sure your mind is on more important matters today. If I am wrong and misread your posts, then I apologize!

Thanks, survived but some who survived wished they didn't. Another sad day here... 1/3 of the biz is moving elsewhere, to NJ actually, and the remaining people/parts/assembly will move to the fab building around the corner, so they say now...

Artiet59
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Well .. Godspeed, brother . Here’s to making it another day in this crazy world

Check out some of my new lights (picture heavy) and quick first impressions of them here: https://budgetlightforum.com/node/77180

vit55
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When available to sale?

JordanZHP
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Has anyone checked the parasitic drain by chance? Lockout is nice but hopefully the drain is low too. I had a Astrolux kill one of my 21700 cells.

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I should be able to check the drain - will post.

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JordanZHP wrote:
Has anyone checked the parasitic drain by chance? Lockout is nice but hopefully the drain is low too. I had a Astrolux kill one of my 21700 cells.

The driver should be the same as all the other Narsil drivers, I didn’t think about testing the carrier though, that is a bit trickier but locking out at the tailcap would not help there anyways.

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Is there LVP in the carrier circuit, or just RPP?

Texas_Ace
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Good question.

edit: Just confirmed, Yes, the carrier has LVP set at 2.9V.

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I’m in any color but silver would be great!

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Couple of quick vid clips to show how the LED's work:

I could not get USB-C to USB-C working to charge it, so doesn't seem to support PD type charging. Tried 2 different USB-C phone chargers from a wall plug (high amps).

 

 

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I measured parasitic drain through the carrier with this setup:

The red wire is 14 AWG, and all I had to do was put the DMM probes on the carrier edge and the brass driver retaining ring.

 

I tried measuring amps on turbo with this setup, using a 10 AWG black wire, but only recorded 20.5 amps, pretty sure it's much less than what it's getting assembled.

 

Parasitic drain with the switch LED OFF:  26 µA (through the carrier or not, same reading)

Parasitic drain with the switch LED ON:   9 mA

There's gotta be resistor problems with those green and yellow LED's. Didn't take a close look at it yet. The yellow is very bright, and that takes a lot of power to do. Green, as an example, takes less power to be bright. They will be changing/fixing the switch LED's in production, as TA mentioned.

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Texas_Ace wrote:
(…) edit: Just confirmed, Yes, the carrier has LVP set at 2.9V.

Will be added to the manual.

Tom E wrote:

Couple of quick vid clips to show how the LED's work: (…)

I could not get USB-C to USB-C working to charge it, so doesn't seem to support PD type charging. Tried 2 different USB-C phone chargers from a wall plug (high amps).

Thanks a lot. So, it seems three out of four quarter segments will be used to indicate something. A blue LED for discharge mode, another red LED for charge mode and a third LED that flashes red while charging or discharging. The only question remaining is, if this flashing LED can turn to constant green or blue when charging is completed - or will it just turn off? Jacky told me there will only be blue and red LEDs in the final product (I guess he meant on the carrier PCB only but I am not sure).

USB-C type C to C support should better be removed from the manual after your testing. Usually, some resistors in the USB’s circuitry should be able to override device identification by any smart PD charger. The battery carrier should then be identified to not more than 5V 2A, similar to Sofirn‘s LT1 in its latest revision (driver rev. 5.0). Maybe TA can advise WildTrail to do the proper steps?

Tom E wrote:

(…)

There's gotta be resistor problems with those green and yellow LED's. Didn't take a close look at it yet. The yellow is very bright, and that takes a lot of power to do. Green, as an example, takes less power to be bright. They will be changing/fixing the switch LED's in production, as TA mentioned.

Alright, so I understood following:

There are LEDs both on the carrier and underneath the switch button. The carrier will apparently not use all LEDs that are soldered onto the PCB. I only saw red and blue LED colors which is now in line with that what I was told by Jacky. The switch LEDs seem to be using green and yellow LEDs, right? So, these show a high parasitic drain and here there will be some fixing by WildTrail.

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Some more information:

  • WildTrail confirmed they will use green LEDs for the switch button and red and blue LEDs for the battery carrier in the final product.
  • Since Tom E observed that USB-C type C-C cables did not work with a PD charger I have updated that part in the manual. Tom, do you have any chance to test discharging with a USB-C to Apple Lightning cable? From my experience (Wurkkos HD20 for instance) some USB-C circuitries may not work with Apple Lightning cables to recharge iPhones or iPads. I fear we may encounter the same situation here. Not a big deal but maybe worth having a look at it anyway?
  • LVP @ 2.9V added to the manual.
  • I revised the section about the battery carrier as shown below.

 

Link to download the updated manual:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Q3NllqgomzSABNJmdvD1XFu0kdqZ52LM/view?usp=sharing

(TA, maybe you would like to update post #002 once again.)

 

Tom E
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What I saw was the blinking red LED turns green - seemed to be in the same place, so the 1/4 stayed solid RED, and the blinking RED turned GREEN.

I don't know about removing the USB C to C from the manual - don't know if it's only a prototype problem.

 

Texas_Ace wrote:
... I had already mentioned the switch LED's to them, they are considering options now. What does it look like with both the green and yellow connected?

Missed answering this - I only noticed a green LED was ON when I exposed the switch PCB. Fully assembled, can't see the green and in room light, all I see is yellow on one side, but in the dark, the full ring is lit up yellow. I would have to fix up the resistors myself to see what it looks like balanced. I prefer the look of yellow, but from experience, it will be a higher drain.

Texas_Ace
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Tom E wrote:

What I saw was the blinking red LED turns green – seemed to be in the same place, so the 1/4 stayed solid RED, and the blinking RED turned GREEN.


I don’t know about removing the USB C to C from the manual – don’t know if it’s only a prototype problem.


 


Texas_Ace wrote:
… I had already mentioned the switch LED’s to them, they are considering options now. What does it look like with both the green and yellow connected?

Missed answering this – I only noticed a green LED was ON when I exposed the switch PCB. Fully assembled, can’t see the green and in room light, all I see is yellow on one side, but in the dark, the full ring is lit up yellow. I would have to fix up the resistors myself to see what it looks like balanced. I prefer the look of yellow, but from experience, it will be a higher drain.

Ah, I see, I didn’t look at the switch with it powered up so didn’t notice the second LED was actually lit up.

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Tom E wrote:

I measured parasitic drain through the carrier with this setup:



The red wire is 14 AWG, and all I had to do was put the DMM probes on the carrier edge and the brass driver retaining ring.


 


I tried measuring amps on turbo with this setup, using a 10 AWG black wire, but only recorded 20.5 amps, pretty sure it’s much less than what it’s getting assembled.



 


Parasitic drain with the switch LED OFF26 µA (through the carrier or not, same reading)


Parasitic drain with the switch LED ON:   9 mA


There’s gotta be resistor problems with those green and yellow LED’s. Didn’t take a close look at it yet. The yellow is very bright, and that takes a lot of power to do. Green, as an example, takes less power to be bright. They will be changing/fixing the switch LED’s in production, as TA mentioned.

9mA is a high value for idle drain, isn’t it? Hopefully this can get remedied..

Texas_Ace
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d_t_a wrote:
Tom E wrote:

I measured parasitic drain through the carrier with this setup:



The red wire is 14 AWG, and all I had to do was put the DMM probes on the carrier edge and the brass driver retaining ring.


 


I tried measuring amps on turbo with this setup, using a 10 AWG black wire, but only recorded 20.5 amps, pretty sure it’s much less than what it’s getting assembled.



 


Parasitic drain with the switch LED OFF26 µA (through the carrier or not, same reading)


Parasitic drain with the switch LED ON:   9 mA


There’s gotta be resistor problems with those green and yellow LED’s. Didn’t take a close look at it yet. The yellow is very bright, and that takes a lot of power to do. Green, as an example, takes less power to be bright. They will be changing/fixing the switch LED’s in production, as TA mentioned.

9mA is a high value for idle drain, isn’t it? Hopefully this can get remedied..

Yes, that is high and can be sorted out with a resistor swap.

Tom, do you have a picture of the switch PCB? I want to make some markups on it so I can show them what to do.

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