Any reason to not get a DW4 - 2000k/4500k e21a?

LED Flashlights – General Info
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I haven’t kept up with flashlights in the last couple of years.

I’m looking for a high CRI headlamp, for doing work at arms length, or 5-10ft away. (DIY kind of stuff at night, where it’s important to see small detail + have good CRI)

The e21a DW4 has been in the back of my mind for awhile. Seems like e21a was the next hype emitter a couple years ago. I’ve seen the Virence comparison, but haven’t heard too many anecdotes or reviews of them. Seems like they haven’t caught on as much as I would’ve expected. I know they don’t put out huge lumen numbers, but I thought they were supposed to be great.

I’ve had 10+ flashlights in the past, including 219b sw45k, osrams, sst20 4k, a few others.

The most used one is an old D4 5k nichia (think 219c). Mostly because of the size, power, and it’s a nice white light.

I’d call the Osrams printer paper white. Very crisp. I liked them a lot. I don’t recall the model, but they were some of the first Osrams offered, by Fireflies. I liked the sst20 4k more than I expected, I thought 4k would be too warm, but it was nice sometimes, and the CRI is nice. I hate LH351d’s, they’re green to me.

If I didn’t get the DW4 with e21a’s, then I think I’d try W1/W2 at 6k, or 35k/45k 219BT, or SST20’s- probably 27k/5k, or whatever tint looked nice to me @4-6k. (not sure if the D4 is using 219b d240’s, those don’t look great imo)

I guess the question is, how are people liking their e21a’s? I want to try a 2000k or 2700k light. I want something with excellent CRI, and neutral or rosy. I have other bright lights, this one should mostly be a useful headlamp.

It’s crazy to see so many nice options being offered, the flashlight community is really cool. Never would’ve imagined years ago that there’d be a right angle D4 with all these emitter options.

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Sounds like a nice combo! Though you can get some extra rosiness and a lot of extra power by replacing:

  • 2000K E21A by 2700K 519A dedomed (around 2200K), and
  • 4500K E21A by 5000K 519A domed (around 4700K and neutral tint) OR 5700K 519A dedomed (around 4200K and rosy tint).
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I hear the d4 is quite heavy for what it is, and so people don’t like using it as a head torch.

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That is an important consideration! It is quite large/heavy due to the quad emitter setup. I’m not super familiar with other headlamps on the market, but you can’t go wrong with 519As. Just be aware that for 4500K and above, the actual CCT is around 300K lower.

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I have a dual channel 519 (2700/4500) D4W. I do like it, very flexible and configurable. Beautiful tint and anduril 2 is tops. That said, it’s quite large (and for sale. )

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dw4 with 18500 tube is one of my favorites for headlamp duty. 18500 tube is the perfect balance size wise IMO

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The weight of the D4 doesn’t seem to bother me. I have the skillhunt hb3 headband everyone liked, maybe that helps. Or maybe I don’t wear it long enough, or move fast enough to notice.

Hmm tough decisions. I’ve never understood the appeal of dedoming emitters, but maybe it makes sense when you don’t want a hotspot. The tints on the 519’s are looking pretty nice.

I don’t see as many people raving about e21’s as I’d expect. I thought the color rendering would be the most valuable thing, especially as I do a lot of stuff like painting, electrical, and plumbing, where it’s really nice to have great light, and without glare

*I see some complaints around the tint of 519a’s, as well as maybe the D4 optic shifting it green. I don’t really like it here: Hanks aktuelle Nichia 519a im Vergleich | Taschenlampen Forum. I’ll look for some e21 pics, leaning against rolling the dice with the 519a right now

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I have the e21 in 2000k and imo it’s too warm to be useful. Sure the CRI is there but the CCT makes it hard to identify colors in my opinion.

All of my current work lights are 519a domed 4500k. It’s the most neutral, crisp emitter I’ve ever used at all output levels above moonlight. Dedoming isn’t the answer if you want a neutral tint, it makes the emitter warmer and very rosy.

I am curious about the e21 at the 4000-5000k range but I prefer boost driven 519a.

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No matter what emitter one goes with the choice of optic is extremely important. With E21As, any optic that is no heavily diffused will have awful tint shift. With 519As this is a bit better, but some optics can make it look green. The 10621/10507 (clear optic) is best at blending tint, and for frosted the 10623/10508 is ok. Everything else will give tint shift.

Both 519As and E21As are amazingly consistent in tint across different samples, all complaints about green are likely due to bad choice of optic/reflector or bad AR coating.

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I’ve got ZL’s, the big Acebeam, and a DW4. The DW4 is -by far- my most favorite light. I’ve got 519a’s in it, though.

I have two low-kelvin lights. I don’t like them. I want noon sunlight, or a tiny bit redder myself.

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Can you share more of your thoughts about the 2000k e21?
I was planning on using it on walks. Seems a bit less conspicuous than a nice white 5000k.
And mostly to play with & try something new. All my lights have been 4000-6500k. I figured it would be fun to try something incandescent-like, and rationalized that tint ramping & CRI would make it useful too in a headlamp, and excuse the poor throw/output. But maybe I’ll get bored & won’t find it useful at all. And I’m also completely ignoring whatever tint shift likely happens at low power.

Hmm, I don’t have a read on the 519a. I’ll have to look for more D4-specific pics/vids. Seems like there are a few people disappointed with them, but obviously there are people here quite happy with them irl.

TLF has some e21a pics for anyone interested:

Seems like I’m hardly ever disappointed with 219c, sst20(seems like one of the most overlooked or unrewarded emitters to me), 219b 4500. The Osrams look ugly on TLF imo, but I loved mine irl.




(maybe I should prepare now to be underwhelmed by the spill/output if I go with e21a)

I think I checked DTA/Flashaholics & didn’t see much

Any consensus about using DC Fix or other films with a light like this? Does it generally ruin the qualities of trying to put together a really nice headlamp?

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In my opinion, 2000k is more candle like than incandescent like. If I had any plans on using this light outside, I would have gone with 3000k at the lowest to mimic something like an incandescent maglight or P60.

It’s clearly up to you what all you decide to buy, but I wouldn’t suggest going that low for something you need good color rendition on. It’s just too orange.

As for 219C, yeah they were solid when driven above low levels but they made a ton of heat.
Hank’s SST20s were good, but quite green at low levels and very throwy.
In my opinion, the 519A has been the best all around general use emitter I’ve seen since I started messing with lights back in the 2000s.

2 Thanks
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Context: I’m a warm white lover. The warmest light I own is an 1850K E17A light and I use it often, but I also own a 2000K E21A. The most common emitter in my lights is split between dedomed 519A 2700K and 4500K. I consider 5000K to be cool white.

All that said, I wouldn’t recommend a 2000K light for working under, or really doing any task where color perception is relevant. Like others have said, it’s not super useful. 2000 and 1850 Kelvin lights are wonderful to use around the house late at night, especially with Anduril’s candle mode and sunset timer to boot, but I rarely take mine outside. Can they render blues and greens? Absolutely, but everything is coated in orange.

The other thing to consider with E21A and E17A is that they use different pad layouts than most LEDs, so if you’re someone who may consider an LED change one day, your options become limited unless you PCB swap as well. RGB aux lights are a little intimidating to me as far as LED swaps go (so many little things to solder), but it’s worth keeping in mind.

All this said, if you move up the temperature ladder to dedomed 2700K 519A (which will land you at ~2200K), you’ll be in a much more useful state. Things are still very warm and orange, but not so much. This is about as warm as I’d recommend anyone go for a work oriented light, even for warm white lovers like me. 519A color rendering is right up there with E21A in my eye, and it’s more efficient, and it uses a more standard pad layout. The specific flavor of course depends on how warm you like things. If you have more average tastes, you may find something closer to 2700K domed to better suit your warm white needs. 2700K dedomed (~2200K) is the warmest I’d go for working use cases though (also the warmest you can go with 519A).

I have some D2’s from Hank in 519A 2200K dedomed and 4500K dedomed, they’re wonderful. The only thing I’d caution on is paying attention to optics if you want to mix colors. What I mean is, two dedomed 519A’s (or two domed) will tint mix together much nicer than one dedomed and one domed. In my D2’s, mine are both dedomed, but one is using a bloody optic and the other is using a clear optic. Same effect. I have mine setup on instant channel switching, which I’ve actually come to enjoy since it is much faster and I’m usually at the extremes of the tint anyway, but I’m genuinely forced into it because tint mixing with non-identical optics is gross.

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Alright, I think I’m going to drink the kool aid and try the 519a 2700k/5700k domed DW4. Some of the beamshots look green/blue to me, but I’m going to rationalize that as optics in different flashlights, or camera. And I’m a moth to the 5700k flame.

The optics aren’t really labelled- should I additionally order any of the 10623,10621,10622,10507, they’re only $3.68ea, seems like it’s worth spending $10 to order the other 3 to play around with. I’m not sure what is stock, and what is the optionally packaged “additional floody optic” on the DW4 page. (I’m not planning to dedome. I still don’t really understand the appeal, I’d have to see it in person I guess)

https://intl-outdoor.com/components.html

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10507 is a small triple so that won’t fit.

10622 is the stock optic that Hank ships with most LED combinations.

10623 is the floody option you see when selecting clip, magnet, etc.

10621 is the narrow optic and I find works well with 519A. Less artifacts and a bit more throw. Maybe not what you’re looking for on a right-angle/headlamp, but works well for a flashlight (since 519A quad is very floody and the 10621 makes it more of a balanced beam, but still on the floody side).

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Thanks, then I’ll order the DW4, 10621, and 10623

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I now have the D4K in 519a 2700K/5700K dual channel and another D4K in E21a 2000K/4500K dual channel. I have a D4K in 519a 2700K/5700K both dedomed dual channel on the way. The only difference apart from the tints mix is the lumen output. Compared to the 519a 2700K, the e21a 2000K is less pink. while the e21a 4500K is quite neutral.

The 519a gets the 10622 optic and the E21a gets the 10623 optic.

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Agreed that the 10621 and 10623 are the best optics for the 519A. The 10621 has the least tint shift among throwy optics, while the 10623 has the least tint shift among floody optics.