Bestfire soup can, I gave in.. (edit: fake XP-L's, see from post #22 on)

Looks like this has them too.
UltraFire XP-L V5 9000lm 12-LED 3-Mode Cool White LED Flashlight Torch - Black (6 x 18650)

12 Cree XP-L V5 5-Mode 3000LM Pure White LED Flashlight

I had an online session with a support person on TMART yesterday, with uploaded pictures, the works... They said give them 2 days to email me - dunno what this will mean. Hope GB and BG would be more responsive since they deal with us regularly. FT's support has gone down hill - not sure if they post here anymore, and DX not sure. I've been giving GearBest lots of feedback lately. They don't publish my reviews at all - not favorable, but not nasty either - unfavorable reviews just don't seem to get published by them. GB though was good on re-shipping a light that didn't arrive, but they also sell a lot of poor quality stuff.

I'm also tired of advertised alum reflectors and getting plastic instead, or advertised SS bezels and getting aluminum. Everything, of course, is cheaper or poorer grade than what is listed.

For now, I trust BangGood a whole lot more than GearBest. Actually BangGood might be the best big discount vendor out there now. Dropping UltraFire branded clones was a huge move by them - they earned a star for that in my book.

It might be Toshiba TL1L3 led. Mouser has it. http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=tl1l3

Hope they aren’t as bad & weak as a recent one like that i tested, it burned out on just 700mA, (a two 7135 chip driver.

If it is a real Toshiba TL1L3 led, it should be able to handle 1A (according to the spec). I guess it is not.

I see BrotherHuang1983 on ebay (the seller who sold the best real SRKs and Kungs) also has a 10-emitter of this light, but with Cree XM-L emitters. (at least from the photos it looks like genuine Cree emitters.) >> SKYRAY 20000LM 10x CREE XML T6 LED Work Flashlight Torch Hunting Lamp 4*18650 BH | eBay

No, the die is too small for a XM-L, those are probably some chinese crap leds:

real XM-L:

This is the beginning of a new era. We can expect in the near future 1:1 clones of the XP-L (or other LEDs), impossible to detect as fakes at first sight.

Price is usually a pretty good indication.

I think one lesson to learn here is. If a vendor supplies something that is different to advertised, then make sure you file a PayPal claim. We all know that these companies don’t really know the meaning of the words “customer service” and at best will fob you off or offer some kind of store credit or code to buy something else from them. But this doesn’t address the underlying issue.

Having PayPal take money from them for a proper refund, will have a greater impact further down the road. And if enough people do this, then it simply won’t be profitable for companies like this to keep false advertising and switching products after purchase.

Remember they do it, because they get away with it, and their only concern is money, not our well being.

The last photo shown in this thread clearly shows how a Paypal claim would not work, I mean prove to whom those are extremely well copies of CREE LEDs? Imagine the thousands of people already owning those easy to spot fake XP-L LED and hard to spot fake XM-L/XP-G LEDs.

And someone might even un-rightfully freak out that he has a fake LED because viewed from a certain angle the LED looks fake, but in reality is not fake, this is far from simple.

For example, the photos of the flashlights in the thread have not changed, they are still the same from before arrival at the owners, but now, at this point several members have identified fake LEDs just by looking at the photos of flashlights on websites, yet before this no one was able to spot the fakes which we all know see clearly as fakes.

If something is advertised, by words or images. And what you receive doesn’t match up. Then it isn’t the item you were sold. In the UK we have very strict and comprehensive laws about this sort of thing.

If the listing is misleading and contradictory, i.e. photos don’t match the written text, then that is still the responsibility of the seller, not the buyer. And at least in part, the item you receive cannot fully match the description of the item, as no such item can exist when it is incorrectly listed. However it is obvious that there is an intention from the seller to make it misleading and claim it to be something it isn’t.

Yes, there is always risk that some buyers will claim something genuine is fake, but that is simply one of the risks of being in business. And the reality is, you’ll have far less people doing this, than the number of people currently being conned by the current tactics.

There is NO justifiable way to condone the current behaviour, and it is up to us, the individuals, the customers to make a stand on it. And as a rule, PayPal are very good at sorting this kind of thing out.

Personally my route is:

-first contact the seller and explain the issue, state you want a refund (or the correct item). And that it is their responsibility to cover all costs if they want the item returned. State you do not want credit for another item. And that you don’t intend to engage in a debate over this and will simply raise a PayPal dispute if they can’t sort this out quickly without arguing it.

This is simply to give them a chance and is the right thing to do.

-Of course, as with nearly all these Chinese companies, they’ll take the piss, fob you off and not have any intention of resolving the issue.

-If they can’t sort it out first time, then the reality is, they likely aren’t going to. So raise a PayPal dispute and let PayPal refund you in full, which they will. Because:

a) most of the sellers totally ignore PayPal communications
b) the sellers never want to back down, even with overwhelming evidence against them
c) they never have a leg to stand on anyhow.

About that Bestfire flashlight of the OP: there's no mention of "Cree" on their website, just "XP-L V5". I think that is how they might get away with a Paypal claim: misleading advertising is more difficult to fight than clear lies.

I started an 'RMA', let's see how they handle it. I'm usually not very firm on my principles with lying chinese sellers (I would have to stop buying chinese stuff altogether), but if they claim that they never stated that the leds were Cree, this might well put dx in the ban for me, and that would be a first!

Lying advertising is bad but sneeky misleading advertising is worse IMO.

EDIT: btw, Fasttech does mention 'Cree' for this light

I admit that is harder for a claim. But still, inventing something and calling it the same as something else, to intentionally mislead people, would seem pretty straight forward in a claim.

Lets face it, you can hardly simply write £20 on bit of note paper and then call it a £20 note (money).

I’m tempted to order one to see what i recieve. if its not an XM-L then i will just file a claim with Paypal.

I’m afraid this is just like the battery issue that has been going on and will probably keep going on: its much cheaper for them to use crappy fake components and pay for the very few people who can tell and make them return the money than it is to use genuine components. Until a large portion detects and complains and forces a refund, to the point its more expensive, this will continue, so please put up a claim if its truely fake for everyone else’s sake!

The sad fact is, when you have a light rated at a lumen amount an average person can’t judge visually or with past experience comparison, they still come out with mostly “positive” reviews. If they use an under performing driver that only feeds the 12 craptastic LEDs 300mA, fed by 4x under performing fake “5,000 mAh” batteries that only can supply 1,500 mAh, it still results in a decent amount of light when you compare to your old flashlight, and a 1.5 hour run time that will get tons of 5/5 star reviews as “great!” since nobody can tell that 12 craptastic poorly driven LEDs really produce 1,600 lumens, not 16,000 lumens. Unless you open disputes, there is no real punishment for them to do this.

How long would you wait before going to Paypal?

I opened a DX ticket yesterday but haven’t had any response at all.
Is 2 days enough before going to Paypal?

Funny with TMART, I pointed out in great detail the fake LED's, CRUD LED's, included pictures of an XM-L2 next to what I got to show the obvious differences. Two days go by, and they email to check my batteries, because that's probably why the output is low. Of course you can't respond to customer service emails, so started another chat session, and she mentions the batteries, again! Trying to stay polite, I point out the details, the pictures, then I get no response, nothing for over 30 mins in an online chat.

It's PayPal time for them, no doubt. They say CREE and I get CRUD... Smile

Hopefully Paypal will catch on to the scams and begin suspending the accounts to these sellers eventually to wake them up.

So I started a ticket with DX about my flashlight, there are 2 issues I complained about

1 - It was DOA will not turn on at all.
2 - It has incorrect LED’s in it.

My messages to DX were

“Flash light completely dead Will not turn on Tried with 2 sets of batteries”

And

“The light is sold as having XP-L V5 LED’s however the unit doesn’t have these in it , they are cheap fake LED’s.

I placed a real XP-L on top to show the difference

See thread here at BLF forum
Bestfire soup can, I gave in.. (edit: fake XP-L's, see from post #22 on)

And sent the 2 images in my other post

And finally just a reply back from them

“chenxf [Request]
Dear Stephen ,

We sincerely apologize for the defective item!

Would you mind repairing it in the local and we will offer some discount for repair charge? It may be the fastest way.

If you are ok with that, Could you please consult repair shop how much it may need?

If not, Could you please return the defetive item back to us? When you finish the shipment and provide the shipping receipt and RMA picture, we will immediately arrange a resend or refund for you.

You can begin the process by the following steps:

Ⅰ.Tips before Return:
1.Return shipping fee: less than 60% of the defective item(s) value and less than $40, we will cover the actual postage according to the shipping receipt you provided;
2.Return shipping method: registered airmail, our return address are drop off box address, no one will be there to sign for the packages. Therefore, please do not use express way (EMS, UPS, Toll, FedEx, TNT, DHL etc.) to return the packages which usually needs a receiver’s signature. Or else, it will be returned to you. Besides, express services are NOT eligible for return shipping cost reimbursements.
3. Return shipping address:
ATTN: Andy Chan DX
ONE WORLD HOUSE PUMP LANE HAYES,
MIDDLESEX UB3 3NB
UNITED KINGDOM

Ⅱ.Steps of Returning:
1.An RMA confirmation letter was sent to your email address, please check the mail contents;
2.Print out the RMA label and affix the label to your returned package or write down the RMA code on the outside of the package;
3.Please include a note in your package indicating your return SKU numbers & quantities, and a short description of the problem(s) of the defective unit;
4. Take a picture of the RMA label and proof of shipment (shipping receipt, certificate of posting, tracking number stub, etc).

Ⅲ.Tips after Returned:
1.Upload the pictures of the parcel with RMA label and proof of shipment here;
2.Please advise us your options about the final solution of your shipping fee and products:
Shipping fee(?):
A. Refund
B. Keeps as store credit
Products(?):
A. Replacement
B. Exchange
C. Refund
D. Keeps as store credit

Thanks for your kindly understanding and cooperation in advance.

Sincerely,
Customer Service
www.dx.com

I like the first option as there are so many flashlight repair shops around here that I can easily take it to !!!
And returning it is a pain as I work 12 hours a day post office is shut when I go out and still shut when I get back.

Definitely want refund once it’s gone as item miss-sold imo.

There is no mention from DX about the incorrect LED’s that were in the flashlight or my images.

Has anyone returned to DX? Will they honour the cost of returning items like they say?