Colorado man proves Stupid is alive and well !

Off-topic Chatter
1

http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/20471075/colorado-man-fatally-shoots-stepdaughter-mistaken-for-burglar/

This has happened before ,

A girls snuk out , to go out with her boyfriend or something .. Came back early in the morning and climbed in through a window , only to be shot dead by her father who thought he was shooting an intruder ( well shooting an intruder was legal , so ? ) ...

Now , I cant confess to being outraged by people shooting burglars , home invaders , rapists or what ever low life is breaking into some ones castle !

What outrages me ! is the breaking of the rules ...

The first rule is , always identify your target ! Be it a paper bullseye 50 yards away down range , or an intruder breaking into your home ..

If you have not identified your target , then tragedy happens through such simple negligence as failing to identify your target .

Its the first rule , Im upset because an idiot has a gun ( I dont blame the gun - I blame the idiot ) , no gun law is going to stop idiots ...

What is needed is an IQ test , your too stupid , no guns , no cars , no alcohol , no nothing till you go to school and improve your IQ to a level where you can function as a normal intelligent human being .

This rule should apply to everyone , you dont do squat till your smart enough .... ( except go to school )

OK this might mean some dont graduate high school till they are 35 , but at least they are not out there dumbing themselves down with drugs and alcohol and robbing or stealing to keep plying themselves with drugs and alcohol . ( vicious circle )

Yes , mandatory education or Anti Stupid Laws !

Hehehehe , not smart enough to function in society , then you dont get to function in society ... ( Yes its a radical concept - Maybe too radical )

2

well at least the word gun didn’t kill people,people do is right and too bad stupidity ain’t hurt :frowning:

3

That is a very sad situation that could have been easily avoided. But with this deal, I can’t imagine how he feels about it. I am in the US, in a pro gun state, and love to hunt. I don’t hunt for just the hunt, I actually process and eat the game I kill. But, I agree with the statement of target identification. Not just target id is important. It is also knowing whats in and around and behind that target. As well as your weapons capabilities.
I am aware in a highly stressful situation this may not always be a option. But, before I pull the trigger I survey whats behind the target. Cause I might miss.
I also train train train. In the above mentioned story had he owned and trained with a torch, this could possibly have been avoided!!! Believe it or not, that is one of the main reasons I got into tactical lights in the first place. It started with a zip tied mag light on a Remington 870 when I bought my first home. Now all of my personal home OFFENCE :party: shotguns have high quality lights.
Having witness to violent crime & other dreadful things when I was young has made me this way. So, sorry for the folks who don’t agree with or like guns. I can fully appreciate their opinion too.
Full Disclosure: If anyone should hate guns, it should be me. My wife, of 13 years, took her own life 2 years ago with a gun I had unloaded and stored securely. It was not me or the guns fault. She was going to do this selfish act no matter the tool. She left me to raise our 9 year old daughter. I won’t go into the reasons she did it here. But it is what it is.
If anyone who reads this has had thoughts of suicide, they can likely relate to what I am saying. Also if anyone reads this who has had or is having these kinds of thoughts, know it is a selfish and permanent solution to a temporary problem.
Feel free to PM me with any questions. I am always open and willing to help anyone anytime with no strings attached. Also, I didn’t post this to get sympathy. I posted it to give sympathy and a open door.
I have learned in times of great adversity when you feel all hope is lost, know you can make it. Much of the small stuff we headache over in life really isn’t that important. We get caught in the moment, and blind to the big picture. Learn to let the little things go. Forgive & Forget.
Sorry for the deep thoughts here. Promise not to do it again. Just hope it can possibly help someone.
Regards,
Ric

4

Maybe the trigger was too soft ? I’m sure this would not have happen if he used a powerful flashlight mount to the gun…

5

Very sad stories here, however you look at it.

Everyone please just be very careful that this thread doesn’t turn into a gun laws debate. Thanks in advance.

6

Stress ... is a factor as is FEAR ! , stress and fear combined can = Stupid , especially if one is already such inclined ..

And yes training , to pre program reactions to meet developing situations ..

To be prepared ( mentally ) and with the right tools ( powerful flashlight ) ...

You hear a noise , you pick up your tools , and go and investigate ...

Scenario 1

You see a dark mass climbing through a window , you lift your tool and turn on the light , 800 Lumens shows you its you child returning home after sneaking out , disaster averted .

Screaming and yelling begins :

Scenario 2

You see a dark mass climbing through a window , you lift your tool and fire off a round , turning on the lights shows you its you child returning home after sneaking out , disaster .

Screaming and yelling begins :

All because you chose the wrong tool for the job , the first job is to identify the target , and a gun is the wrong tool for that ..

Being prepared , is not just about having a gun , the gun should be the last recourse and not the first .. How many options were exhausted before turning to lethal force ?

Was the intruder challenged , given an opportunity to surrender or identify ?

Well , hind sight is 20 20 , and Im sure the guy has learned something ( we do learn from our mistakes - dont we ? ) at one hell of a price ...

Now driving a car : Wow so much stupid out there ...

Im amazed more people are not re-leaved of their driving license , car drivers can be so thoughtless and dangerous it simply amazes me ..

I love walking , and doing such puts me in harms way .. From predator drivers , breaking the law ( failing to give way when legally required to do so ) ..

Every time I go for a walk , its an adventure fraught with danger ( cars and their homicidal owners ) , a few times I have nearly lost it and thought of giving the drivers something to think about , something lasting that they can ponder over as a nurse feeds them through a straw ..

Australian car drivers = Possibly the worst in the world !

The last 20 years , there has seen a serious decline in driver skill , and driver sanity !

I want more cameras on the roads / streets .. I want them everywhere , so that the authorities can simply mail out a fine or summons after watching car drivers do something stupid on video ... I would expect maybe 50% of the driving population to lose there license within the first 12 months ... ( here in Australia ) if cameras covered every road ..

7

really sad to hear that someone was killed

I can imagine the father was probably afraid for his life (and his family’s) hearing someone in his home in the middle of the night and then even more heartbroken when he realize what happened :frowning:

8

When your running on adrenaline you act first and think later, usually an act of self protection means running away or some other safe action, but if you strike with a deadly weapon this neural circuitry can lead to results such as killing your child, this is not the first and i wish this were the last time it would ever happen

I think he should be charged with something because i believe in the doctrine of minimum necessary force, shooting first and asking questions later would easily lead to far too many deaths, if this were an intruder with a knife or a gun then deadly force is more justifiable

If the police did the same thing in this situation they would be charged

9

Maybe he did…

At the risk of pissing off the rest of the population here, consider the fact that Natural Law dictates that a new male in a breeding pair, normally kills off all the offspring of any previous male…

And maybe the “stepdaughter” was just getting uppity…

Sorry. I’m sure somebody misses her.

But it appears the stepfather did not. That’s not punny. I’m sure some honorable family would have been glad to adopt this girl (hint, hint!) to prevent this from happening.

In America, according to the FBI, more children are killed every year by their babysitters than by all the mass school shootings combined. Which one are the haters trying to ban? And why is it so hard to adopt a child?

10

Its really stupid to use deadly force as your first option. Try turning the lights on first and identify if there is a threat. Sadly a firearm does not make a person smarter. If you lived alone I can understand going on the offense immediately, but with kids or other people around you never know for sure. Could have been a boy friend also, but it really helps when you take the effort to raise obedient, intelligent, honest and loving children. I like having a large dog in the house, works as a great early warning system.

Not too long ago some 70 year old man was shot dead in his own garage because the police got the wrong house. He went out armed to see who was making noise in his garage, ended up being two stupid rookie cops that were very trigger happy. Idiots come in all sizes and colors, bright flashlights are a huge help. I keep my big or powerful lights at each door and shine it right at the “noise”, works great and blinds whatever got my attention. My favorite door light is a 20 guage pump with a bright streamlight thrower on it. :slight_smile:

11

I had the same thought, maybe this was a convenient excuse, who knows what their relationship was like, but we do not have that information, and we cannot assume anything, for all we know they were the closest of families and he really thought he was protecting his, that anyone coming for his daughter had what was coming to them (or he may have even thought it was a boyfriend and that was the convenient excuse gone wrong)

12

Thank you for that little glimmer of humor in this otherwise horribly depressing thread! :beer: :D

13

i didn’t say they would be convicted because we all know the answer to that :frowning:

the point i was trying to make is that what would you think if the police shot someone in this exact scenario without identifying who they were shooting at

14

Sad story for sure. It is hard to make a judgement with the limited information given.

“Police in Colorado Springs were called to respond to a report of a burglary on the city’s north side and arrived at the scene to find the girl gravely injured from a gunshot wound, according to a police statement.”

It seems odd that it was reported as a burglary rather than an accidental shooting. I wonder what the timeline was in relation to the call to the police and the actual shooting. If the shooter called the police first and then killed the girl, that seems to be odd circumstances. If the girl was shot first and then the shooter called the police, it seems like the victim would have been identified by the shooter by the time the call to the police was made.

I guess a third party could have called the police(neighbor, another family member, etc).

15

Too bad we don’t have media that can be trusted to report any gun incident accurately or completely. Assuming that they do is about the same as firing off a shot in the dark at a noise, not smart.

16

I am truly sorry about your wife’s death I also lo e to hunt, and process my game and eat as well (although be it with a handicap permit recently) I also have four kids that.grew up around my firearms I spent time showing them how to handle safely load assemble disassemble basic safety and I ALWAYS HAD THEM UNDER LOCK AND KEY.Its a shame that this has had to happen basic safety always identify your target, what’s behind it and never ever point your weapon at something you don’t plan to destroy, now a young woman (his daughter) is no longer here and he has to live with the consequences.

17

Have a family = Dude ? come on .... Could be anyone hitting the fridge , or maybe heard a noise outside , locked the door so had to climb in through a window , 101 possible reasons for that bump in the night ..

Im calling STUPID on this one , simply because of the massive failure of the most basic rule ..

Its under stress and fear that the rules are most important ...

I watched a long time ago a program on body guard training ...

After a long hard day of running jumping and other physical stuff , the trainees were exhausted ...

Great time for some fire arms training ..

They had to follow a very simple drill ..

Check the gun ( that its empty )

Load the gun ...

Shoot the gun ...

Check that the gun was empty ...

Not one single person completed the drill properly , they all failed to follow the simple drill .. Obviously there was an instructor there yelling at them and distracting them , and it was amusing to see how flustered and confused they became ...

It was a simple drill , one they had done over and over during there training , but under stress , they completely lost the plot ...

I admit , fatigue , tiredness , hunger , pain etc would have played its part , but it showed how even people who should be in the know can be completely stupid under the right circumstances ..

Anyone ever watch those SAS or special forces training documentaries ? People with years of military experience , seasoned professionals , turned into drooling morons under the right conditions . To be human is to be flawed ...

And under the right circumstances , we are all capable of being monumentally stupid in the moment ...

18

put more simply our internal system to protect ourselves from sudden danger is quick action without thought to consequences (and being exhausted or distracted makes it function worse)
Deadly weapons raises the stakes, if he had used a taser, blinding flashlight, baton or common sense she would probably not be dead

19

Ric, I feel sad for the loss of your wife. But you have honoured her life by helping others immeasurably through your sharing and encouragement. You have made peace/sense in the aftermath of this tragedy and used the energy to reach out to others. I’m very sure this immense effort also greatly helped your daughter through the pain, sorrow and confusion whilst in her adolescence. Depression is a very real and present threat/danger that we all risk in this hubris for survival. But I know deep down that you have come to terms, such is life. May you have a blessed Christmas and many better new years henceforth!

20

Sad news all around. It would be nice if all gun owners were smart, stable personalities with good training and instincts. It would be nice if everyone with a drivers license had these attributes as well. Not going to be true for all in either case but for some reason bad, drunk, or rage filled drivers don’t get the same press treatment. Probably because a car won’t fit in a classroom or movie theater but even so cars are the most deadly weapon just about any way you look at it. No point here, no point at all.