Congestion Pricing in NYC

In case most of you have not heard, NYC is implementing congestion pricing tomorrow. This is a toll that you will pay if you drive your vehicle south of 60th street in Manhattan. The toll will be imposed on all vehicles including taxis, delivery vehicles, and personal vehicles.

It is meant to reduce traffic in that zone. Proceeds will go to supporting the MTA.

What does everyone think about a system like this?

I personally think it will negatively impact many businesses. NJ has several law suits happening as people will be parking they cars in NJ and taking the train a few stops to avoid the toll. It will create a parking nightmare in NJ. It also means higher prices for products as deliveries will cost more.

The toll will not be cheap, its $9 per day for cars. More for busses and trucks.

When there are too many vehicles what else can one do? Some cities around the world have done this for many years. I believe it has been successful in Stockholm and public opinion changed from not liking it to approval. They used the money to improve public transit. It did not result in massive business closures. In Europe many small towns have closed off old town areas to vehicles or charge congestion fees.

There are too many people, and too many vehicles in many widely different areas, IMO. From city centers to national parks and wilderness areas. I don’t have a solution.

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The only problem in NYC is the subways are not safe. They run well, maintained well but they also filled with mentally impaired homeless people.

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All such adjustments are painful at first. But I gather that as much as it costs to park in Manhattan, the proposed price schedule isn’t going to break anyone’s budget while parking in NJ and jumping on a train will cost roughly as much while potentially also adding time to the journey.

Years ago a friend had a ~3 week work assignment in Brooklyn. Rode the train daily from their hotel in upper Manhattan to a location in a less-than-glamorous Brooklyn neighborhood. This friend - who lived their entire life in suburban Texas, is a self-described “car guy”, and far from volunteered for the assignment - quickly grew accustomed to riding the train and came to the conclusion that transit was the logical way to get around in an environment as dense as NYC. Said they saw people from all walks of life on the subway, that there was a kind of implicit understanding to mind your own business.

I’ve never been to NYC, but I have taken the Dallas light rail on a few dozen occasions and have heard the same complaints - that it’s dirty and crime-infested. I found it to be neither. Some interesting people you may not otherwise in daily life ride the train, but like even statistically dangerous stretches of highway it’s a mundane experience the overwhelming majority of the time. The dangerous highway point is far more relevant - I have to traverse one such stretch whenever I commute to the office.

A couple of anecdotes of course. Friend’s NYC trip was circa 2009. I’ve only intermittently ridden Dallas’ DART rail, which I could take mostly to the office if I wished … were I willing to commit twice as much time to the journey and would still need to drive from my house to the nearest station.

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It’s NYC. If you want to drive something, get a bike and you’ll get there faster. Most cars stink and waste space.

We have congestion charging. If I drive into London, 50 miles each way, it costs me less than £30 taking into account petrol and wear and tear on the car. For four people that is less than £7.50 each. If I take the train, it costs me about £50 for one person. So for four people, thatbis less than £30 versus £200. If I go in a Sunday, the rail is about £30, so it’s a wash if I am on my own. The London tube is very good.

I haven’t set tire in Manhattan in ages, and have no intention of ever doing so again. No matter where I’d go, I’d be in a bus+train zone if I needed to get to Manhattan. If I didn’t want to drive to work (Queens), it’d take me 2 buses (single fare w/ transfer), but to Manhattan, bus to train.

I was a subway rat from college on, and all this “crime” is just the Big Publicity Events, like getting set on fire, being pushed onto tracks, etc. That happened forever, but a spate of idiots doing crazy shiite like that is what’s making headlines.

All you need is common sense and good situational awareness. Don’t wear all your blang-blang for Bad People to see and covet. Take your head out of your ass and see what’s around you. Stop doomscrolling incessantly, take off the earmuffs, and LOOK to see what’s going on around you. even the crazies will stay away from someone who’s eyeballing them back just waiting for them to try something, and go pick on someone who’s in his own little universe oblivious to reality.

Even late at night, when you just miss your train and there’s like noooooooooooo one around, and you can hear every little drip-drip-drip from a leaky pipe, every candy wrapper rustling in the breeze, and can practically hear your own heartbeat, it’s a little unnerving, but once a few people start piling in, it’s fine.

The solution is for people to just stop coming into Manhattan. Live in Joisey? Push for remote work. Or find a different job if possible. People who can already afford the gas, plus bridge tolls, private-lot parking, etc., will have just Yet Another Expense to get to work in Manhattan, and it probably won’t be a huge hit, percentagewise.

Teachers, deli workers, etc., who don’t have a choice, yeah, they’re gonna get hit hard. There was this music teacher who had to drag her instruments, etc., with her by car to come to school (work) each day, so people in that situation are gonna get hit hard, maybe enough to quit or at least get a job elsewhere.

But if everyone who objected could do so, turn Manhattan to a no-fly zone. Stop delivering to that area without adding on a surcharge. Couriers already do that. Taxis would add tolls on top of regular fares. If enough cabs would avoid picking up fares that would go to that zone, even better. Refuse to work on-site in Manhattan, and if denied, look for another job. They want no congestion? Give it to them, in spades. When enough people are affected by that blanket avoidance that it costs them, maybe then they’ll complain to the right people. Pollies don’t care about outsiders, but when people in their districts start rearing up on their hind legs and howling loud’n’long, they’ll start to listen.

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Not in the outer boroughs. For me, I used to joke that to get to work, it was 15min by car, 1hr15min by buses. That was a long time ago, and that gap narrowed quite a bit. Around-the clock traffic vs just crush-hour, lengthened driving times, and using the BusTime app to literally time when I’d leave the house or work to pretty much just be walking up to the stop when my first bus would show up, shortened my bus trip by that time saved by just not waiting as long, especially for skipped buses.

But taking pubtrans was always always always way longer than just driving somewhere.

Ie, Manhattan is only 1 out of 5 boroughs of NYC. Most outsiders equate the two, but they’re not nearly alike.

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“I’m from the government, and I’m here to ______”.

That blank…always a mystery.

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This reminds me of a Candid Camera bit where Delaware was closed because they reached their quota.

In SĂŁo Paulo we have a "rotation"of vehicles that can drive within the city center, based on the last number of the license plate.
Cars that end with 1 or 2, cannot drive in the center on Mondays from 7am-10am and 5pm to 8pm.
Licenses ending in 3 or 4, on Tuesdays, same hours.
Ending in 5 or 6, Wednesday.
7 or 8, Thursday.
9 or 0, Friday.
Now, does it work? Well, I don’t know. Our transit is absolute hell anytime of the day, everyday. So…
And a lot of people have more than one car with different ending plates.

Lifelong New Yorker here. I’ve lived in 4 out of 5 boroughs (sorry Staten Island) and have been in Manhattan for 11 years. I have a car which I use to get out of the city and visit family, go on getaways and sometimes to go to the outer boroughs. I ride on the subways and buses to commute and just to get around.

I’m in favor of congestion pricing even though it will cost me $. The mass transport system is in dire need of funds to maintain let alone upgrade this vital service in NYC. The city could not survive without robust mass transit.

Congestion pricing is one way to stop the gridlock that has gripped the city. Classic economics says if you increase the cost of something the demand will drop. But the causes of increased congestion will not be solved with this alone.

There are so many more for hire cars in NYC over the past decade. Taxi licenses used to be tightly controlled but then came Uber (and others). NYC allowed drivers licenses for hire vehicles go from 40,000 in 2010 to 120,000 in 2019 (latest figures I could find, certainly higher now). These are mostly in Manhattan. Uber’s lobbyists greased a lot of palms to make that happen. This is a huge contributor to congestion and IMO a big mistake.

There have also been a reduction in lanes available for car traffic with dedicated bike lanes on many major avenues. This chokes traffic flow but does allow for more bicycles so maybe it’s ok (debatable).

Also the volume of package and grocery deliveries has exploded with the ubiquity of Amazon, Fresh Direct (groceries) and many others. They all have trucks double parked to make deliveries further constricting traffic flow. Major avenues are often reduced to one lane.

Some municipal workers (police and fire) all commute by car into the city adding congestion. They are encouraged to do so with de facto free parking that crowds the surrounds of precincts and firehouses with impunity.

FYI if you’re not from NYC the “city” means Manhattan.

Additionally there are so many parking placards given to officials, non profits and others with political clout allowing to them park anywhere without a ticket. This further encourages people to drive into the city.

Congestion pricing will help. There should be a much higher fee paid for Uber cars. Currently it’s only $1.50 which is not enough of a price increase to reduce demand. It should be $9 like all other vehicles.

Also the original plan of a $15 toll (instead of the politically motivated reduction to $9) would have been a greater deterrent to drive and more significantly reduce cars in the city, and provide more $ for mass transit.

NYC needs to maintain and improve mass transit - not only in Manhattan but perhaps more so in the neglected outer boroughs. Taking drastic measures like congestion pricing is warranted but we shouldn’t stop there. We need to do more.

And don’t get me started on the swarms of bicycle riders ignoring all traffic laws that has occurred over the same time period.

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Has to suck big time for these people who’s garage forces them into paying even if they’re not really going into the area.

That’s more of a problem for the garage than the resident. He should find another garage without that issue. Problem solved. Garage will lose a lot of business because of that.

Anybody who lives in that area is paying big bucks for rent or to own so it’s hard to feel too sorry for them. It’s a very expensive neighborhood - right off Fifth Ave in Midtown!

At a glance, parking in lower Manhattan looks to be anywhere from $400 - $1000 per month. It’s a tax, but far from ruinous.

Im european and I think this could be a good thing but I think it will do anything. People who can drive a car and have a car and have a reason to drive that car probably dont care too much about a 9€ tax because theyre already paying much much more both in tax and just the straight up price of the car and fuel. As a european I would just close the road and use some tax money to make subways safer as that seems to be a concern of people(tho im not sure if its actually unsafe or people just think that). If you close all the roads you could always bike or in the future they could just build a tram which is really efficient because its much faster than walking, safe and cheap because you dont need to dig a tunnel underground. Of course correct me if im off mark as ive never been to ny.

I’m never surprised when people don’t mind others paying for things that they advocate, without willing to suffer or bare the same things. It’s easy to say it’s a minor cost when you’re not the one paying it.

I guess fairness in matters has gone out the window these days :thinking:

My dad told me at a Young age words that have stayed with me to this day;
“Life isn’t Fair, Get used to it”

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The largest recipient of the property taxes I pay goes to the local school district. I have no children - arguably unfair to me. Yet I do not begrudge paying for something that doesn’t directly benefit me because it’s a net improvement to society.

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The London congestion charge has had no effect in reducing traffic. It is just another form of taxation.
Surprised to read that NYC taxis will be subject to it, even though they are part of the public transport system.