Free Shipping, which is not really free, or is it, or not... Just an FYI, my "opinion" and possible discussion

Off-topic Chatter
1

Is anything really free? Well, yes, some things are, but China Shipping is not one of them.

I'm going to take the Palight Boss1 as an example. I have seen it listed as cheaply as $30 USD, but that is without shipping costs. When shipping is added to that figure, it's about $25 USD more. That would put it at about $55 USD.

Ok, does that ring any bells yet? How much is the light listed for, from sellers "claiming free shipping". Somewhere from $50 to $65 USD.

So..., do I need to say more? Sure, I love to run my mouth.

They are "claiming" free shipping, but the shipping cost has been already added to the cost of the "free shipping light".

So is there really free shipping on anything? My "opinion" is NO, there isn't. Now, a seller does not necessarily make a ton of money off any one thing, but they don't hurt themselves either, or they would not be in business. Take any one of the big dealers, like DX, Tmart, GB, Banggood and others. How many products are they listing "overall in all categories", on their websites? Hundreds to Thousands of items! Just thing about the amount of products they sell. Do you think for one moment that they could offer "free shipping" unless they were already padding the "free ship" price, with the cost of shipping? Does anyone think that? I hope not.

What am I getting at here? Just remember when you see free shipping, the price of regular air shipping, plus the cost of packaging and the cost of getting the item from the mfg to the seller, along with the cost of transporting it to the seller you are buying from, is all coming out of the price you paid and I guarantee the seller is not loosing money. Why do you see so many sellers pop up all over the place? If it was not profitable, they wouldn't be doing it.

Is that a bad thing? Nope, it's a fact of life, but just treat "free shipping" as "already paid for by you" and you will start to realize just how little the actual product is worth.

Remember also, all shipping goes by weight. That is universal. A very small and light object, that weights almost nothing is much better for a seller to offer, because they can make a much higher profit. If a light weighing in at 2 ounces goes for $20USD and one weighing in at 12 ounces goes for $35USD, they did better selling the lighter one, as far as profit minus shipping.

Also, I believe that all of the "subsidies" that governments are paying to China, are just going to the Chinese government and no sellers ever see a dime of that. The government takes the loot and still charges fairly high prices for mail shipping. At least it looks that way, from looking at actual Chinese mail shipping costs that have to be paid.

Just my two cents worth and just my own opinion, based on what I read and find out here and there from anonymous sources.

2

Free is just a marketing term. Shipping costs everybody but there is no way around that. All suppliers, manufacturers, and vendors pay for it and calculate that in their costs which in turn get passed on to the consumer. Free shipping is a convenience for a customer too calculate costs but it is not free.

I prefer Richard's and Calvin's methods as it put things on an even scale but I understand why other vendors include shipping.

3

Not light suppliers, but there has been price fixing going on between supplier’s in the UK so they all make good profits. It became a problem as the number of supplier’s was low and they were dictating the market but they do get investigated.

The UK Government always encourage competition to bring the prices down which is normally better for the consumer, I sometimes wonder how they remain in business if they keep undercutting each other with low prices. The companies selling the stuff obviously will make a profit or they’ll go out of business but does this drive down the wages of the employee?

They’ll keep cutting prices until other businesses that are more efficient survive and those that are not go into administration and cease trading.

I get what you’re saying about the subsidies going to the Chinese Government for them to spend it on anything they like, they just leave the door open so trading can continue between the countries involved.

No, I don’t think there really is free shipping. I normally ignore that or any charge for shipping. All that’s important is the overall price I’m paying. £10 overall as an example , doesn’t matter if it’s £7 + £3 or £4 + £6.

I don’t know if it’s still the case but ebays seller’s charges weren’t just based on the overall price but also based on the delivery charge.

We need some insight , (I doubt they’ll give it though) from someone that trades from China, it would be interesting to know what the profit margins are?

4

I have to disagree with one part.

I have ordered a number of items off ebay and elsewhere for prices that, on the surface at least, appear ridiculous. 75 cents for several items, “free shipping”, buy-it-now (not an auction where I just got lucky). These are light weight items of course but still. 75 cents for the item, packaging, ebay listing fees and shipping overseas from china! Shipping has to be subsidized. Sometimes they include tracking (real full tracking), even on a such inexpensive items. I believe ebay gives some kind of benefits if a certain percentage of a sellers items include tracking.

I’ve ordered a set of touch screen pens for $1 “free shipping” where I could choose the colors. So $1 includes the items, a guy in china that spoke fine English to respond to messages, item selection, packaging, ebay listing fees and shipping overseas from china, plus half-way tracking. If I take the same package and try to mail it to a friends house, even in the same town, it costs more than $1. Let alone mailing it overseas.

5

The Chinese government leaders are very smart. Online vendors can offer true real shipping, because their government subsidizes it to spur export growth, that’s why Chinese online vendors can really offer ‘free shipping’ to items as cheap as a dollar.

I have local friends who work in China and has confirmed this shipping subsidy.

Take this $ 0.99 item as an example…. http://www.gearbest.com/iphone-cables-adapters/pp_234924.html
or this $ 1.99 item from BG: Russische Holzpuppe matryoshka Hängecharme keychain Sale - Banggood Deutschland sold out-arrival notice-arrival notice

it can be ordered with free shipping.

6

I never doubted that shipping costs were somewhere in the equation. I do like 'free shipping' because you know immediately the costs of an item, which makes the buying decision very quick. I'm even prepared to pay a bit more for the clarity of 'free shipping'. Because they deliberately make packages disappear, Gearbest has made it almost obligatory to pay extra for tracking, so apart from the very good deals I do not buy there anymore because in my perception their prices are not clear.

7

In Japan I could send stuff based on weight. In the Netherlands we pay according the size and weight. Something doesn't fit in a mailbox? But it's only 100grams, you're unlucky because it will be sent as a parcel. Parcels go from 0-2kg,2-5kg, 5-10kg. So it's not just a weight thing. Sucks badly for us to ship something lightweight overseas that just doesn't fit through a mailbox.

8

Whilst the free shipping is good, but if they use the cheapest method to send it I would like to pay a little extra so it arrives earlier.

It’s frustrating wiith some of the smaller seller’s as there isn’t an option to pay a little more for quicker delivery.

I wish they would ask for some feedback, do they want to make more money (and take mine) ? :~

9

For a newbie - who’s Calvin? (Sorry for the tangent, but it’d be nice if there were a sticky somewhere with commonly used names/usernames/store names. I’ve figured out Richard and Simon, but it’s taken a while…)

I also like Richard’s (RMM / Mtn Electronics) method - at least in my short experience, it seems like shipping costs there are reliably reasonable, but there’s no markup on every single item, as there must be on free shipping sites. Seems very fair to put the charges closer to where they actually are.

10

Calvin is one of the owners of Illumn.com, he's a BLF-member under the name CalvinIS.

11

I think that everyone knows that shipping and all costs, are built into the prices of a company, to me and almost everyone, “free shipping” just means “total price”, without having to guess what the surprise check-out total might be, and that resulting in canceling the order. We just want shopping to be easy, and building in the shipping costs, make it simple

When service companies quit charging for travel time, I hope consumers didn’t think that the business was only charging for 3 or 4 hours a day per serviceman, and simply eating all of the serviceman’s pay for the hours of driving, stuck in traffic, and at the parts warehouses, in the end, all costs are always built into pricing.

12

Thanks!

13

I remember the moderator of a car forum that I belong to being incredibly annoyed when he wanted to buy something from one of the trader’s.

Trader ” The price for you = ” basic price + tax + shipping + important tax = ??”

Moderator ” Why on earth am I interested in all that, just tell me the final and total price that I have to pay! ” |(

14

I asked my local post office about this. I was there to pick up a registered package from DX. Total cost to me was less than $2, yet there I was in my local Post Office signing for it AFTER they had already tried to deliver it to my front door!
I asked them where is the money in this?
They said there isn’t. In fact only the country of origin collects the postage fees. The receiving end does it for free.

That would mean EVERY time we in the States order something from China we DAMAGE our own postal system.

15

Ok, what I should have said is that the sellers show pricing comparable to US pricing, when shipping costs are not absorbed, so someone is showing costs higher than the real ones that are paid. Maybe it's just another way for sellers to make money, by claiming high shipping costs then? I know on the Boss1, the "shipping costs" given to me, were around the $25 USD range and that was from more than one outfit. That was regular international air mail and something faster, like DHL, was twice that price.

Part of the problem is the huge difference in what China values the Yuan, compared to other nations.

Postal rates for China Post:

(1 Chinese Yuan equals 0.15 US Dollar)

Small Parcels
Currently, most international small parcels (not exceeding 2 kg) are delivered by air and SAL mails. The postage is CNY 5 for the first 50g and the additional charge by each gram after the first 50g is different in the following nine destination groups :

Destination
Each additional one gram after the first 50g (CNY)
Japan, South Korea, Kazakhstan
0.06
Austria, Singapore, Thailand, Sri Lanka, Malaysia
0.07
New Zealand,(Including the Cook Islands, Niue and Tokelau Islands), Australia, Hungary, Greece, Switzerland, Portugal, Norway, Romania, Czech Republic, Netherlands, Finland, Germany, Denmark, Poland, Belgium, Bulgaria, Ireland, Italy, Sweden, Croatia, Malta, Slovakia, Slovenia, Indonesia, Israel, Turkey, Cyprus, Azerbaijan
0.08
South Africa, USA, Canada, UK, Spain, Ukraine, Lithuania, Latvia, France, Russia, Belarus, Estonia, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, India, Mongolia, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Armenia, Bahrain, Pakistan, North Korea, Iraq, Myanmar, Bangladesh, Lebanon, Jordan, Palestine, Kyrgyzstan, Nepal, Vietnam, Iran, Kuwait, Georgia, Uzbekistan, Brunei, Laos, the Philippines, Oman, Turkmenistan, Bhutan, Cambodia, Qatar, UAE, Tajikistan, Maldives, Yemen
0.09
Mexico
0.10
Argentina
0.11
Chile, Brazil, Peru
0.12
Iceland, Macedonia, Albania, Republic of Montenegro, Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Moldova, Liechtenstein, Luxemburg, Monaco, Andorra, San Marino, Vatican, the Faroe Islands
0.15
African countries and regions, the remaining countries and regions in South America
0.18

The postage rate of surface mail is CNY 7 up to 100g and CNY 4.5 for each additional 100g or part thereof.


Large Package

China Post large packages can reach most countries or regions in the world that have post offices, but the postage rate is different based on different transportation means and distance. Here we have listed some examples. For more postage rate information, please consult your local post office or your Chinese suppliers.

Destination
Postage Rate for AIR Parcel (CNY)
SAL (CNY)
SURFACE (CNY)
Weight Limit (kg)
Rate for weight not over one kilogram
Each additional 1kg or part thereof
Rate for weight not over one kilogram
Each additional 1kg or part thereof
Rate for weight not over one kilogram
Each additional 1kg or part thereof
USA
158.5
95
104.6
51.1
83.5
20
30
UK
162.3
76.6
126.2
50.5
208.1
22.4
30
Japan
124.2
29.6
110.9
26.3
108.1
13.4
30
Canada
137.7
72
99.2
45.7
86.2
22.7
30
Australia
143.8
70
117.2
53.4
88.8
15
20
France
185.5
68.3
149.1
42.1
131
14
30
Portugal
191
80.1
148
47.1
-
-
20
Italy
159.3
71.2
121.1
43.2
99.8
11.7
20
Germany
190.9
69.5
154.7
43.3
140.8
19.4
30
Spain
166
72
126.1 42.1
-
-
20
Austria
153.8
60.4
123.9
40.5
116.1
22.7
20
Netherlands
158.9
68.5
122.8
42.4
104.7
14.3
20
Poland
139.4
56.1
117.8
44.5
-
-
15
Sweden
184.9
57.6
161.8
44.5
152.8
25.5
20
South Africa
210.2
117.1
-
-
110.9
17.8
20
Norway
179.4
75.9
138
44.5
134.6
31.1
20
Russia
170.2
59.3
144.9
44
-
-
20
Singapore
91
35.1
-
-
66.8
10.9
40
Brazil
240.2
122.5
158.1
55.2
139.4
21.7
20 (30 for SAL)
The Philippines
113.2
35.5
-
-
95.2
17.5
20
Malaysia
82.6
26.7
-
-
67.9
12
20
India
155.6
57.7
-
-
111.7
13.8
20
Chile
214.5
129.2
150.8
70.7
-
-
20
Egypt
155.6
60.4
-
-
119.4
19.4
20


EMS and China International Express

Postage Rates:

Destination of EMS

Destination of China International Express

 Postage Rate for weight not over 500g (CNY)

Each additional 500g (CNY)
Documents Merchandise

Macao, Taiwan, Hong Kong

 90 130 30
South Korea, North Korea, Japan South Korea 115 180 40

Philippines, Cambodia, Malaysia, Mongolia, Thailand, Singapore, Indonesia, Vietnam

Philippines, Malaysia, Thailand, Singapore, Indonesia, Vietna

 130 190 45

Australia, Papua New Guinea, New Zealand

Japan, Brunei + EMS destinations

 160 210 55

USA

 180 240 75

Ireland, Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Germany, France, Finland, Canada, Luxembourg, Malta, Norway, Portugal, Sweden, Switzerland, Spain, Greece, Italy, UK

Fiji, Netherlands + EMS destinations

 220 280 75

Pakistan, Laos, Bangladesh, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Turkey, India

Pakistan, Bangladesh, Myanmar, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Turkey, Greece, India, Gibraltar

 240 300 80

Argentina, UAE, Panama, Brazil, Belarus, Poland, Russia, Colombia, Cuba, Guyana, Czech, Peru, Mexico, Ukraine Hungary, Israel, Jordan

Qatar, Kuwait, Lebanon, UAE, Oman, Egypt, Most South American countries and regions

 260 335 100

Major destinations in Africa

The remaining countries and regions in Asia, South America and Africa

 370 445 120
Note: Merchandise within 500g is charged as documents.


Weight Limits:

Region
Destination
Weight Limit (kg)
Size Limit (m)
Region
Destination
Weight Limit (kg)
Size Limit (m)
1
Hong Kong
40
Standard 1
7
Nepal
31.5
Standard 2
Macau
31.5
Standard 2
Pakistan
30
2
Japan
30
Standard 3
Sri Lanka, Turkey, Laos
30
Standard 1
South Korea
30
Standard 1
Bangladesh
20
Democratic People's Republic of Korea
30
Standard 2
India
35
3
Malaysia
40
Standard 1
8
Guyana, Panama, Peru, Jordan, Czech, Russia
30
Standard 1
Indonesia
30
Standard 4
Mexico, Columbia, Poland, Ukraine, Israel, Belarus
20
Singapore, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Mongolia
30
Standard 1
United Arab Emirates, Hungary
31.5
Philippines
20
Standard 2
Argentina
20
Standard 2
4
Australia, New Zealand
30
Standard 2
Brazil, Cuba
30
Papua New Guinea
25
Standard 1
9
Gabon, Kuwait, Tunisia, Uganda, Morocco
30
Standard 1
5
UK, Greece, Switzerland, Germany, Sweden
30
Standard 1
Ghana, Oman, Chad, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Republic of the Congo
France, Ireland, Belgium, Italy
Rwanda, Cote d'Ivoire, Senegal, Mozambique, Croatia, Estonia
Denmark, Norway, Finland, Austria
31.5
Standard 1
Latvia, Kazakhstan, Bulgaria
30
Standard 2
Luxembourg
31
Iran, Bahrain, Egypt, Syria, Djibouti
20
Standard 1
Spain, Malta
20
Qatar, Guinea, Botswana, Cayman Islands
Portugal
30
Standard 2
Kenya, Nepal, Cyprus, Burkina Faso
31.5
Standard 1
6
USA
31.5
Standard 2
Romania
Standard 2
Canada
30
Standard 1
10
Taiwan
30
Standard 1
EMS service to Iraq is suspended.

Standard 1: The maximum length is 1.5 meters. The length + circumference should be 3 meters or less.
Standard 2: The maximum length is 1.05 meters. The length + circumference should be 2 meters or less.
Standard 3: Packages sent to Tokyo and Osaka: the maximum length is 1.8 meters. The length +circumference should be 3 meters or less.
Packages sent to other places in Japan: the size requirement is the same as standard 1.
Standard 4: The maximum length of a rectangular package is 0.6 meter. The length + width + height should be 0.9 meter or less. The maximum length of a cylindrical package is 0.9 meter. The length + two diameters should be 1.04 meters or less.

EUB Postage Rate:
EUB parcels (weight limit: 2kg) are available to USA, UK and Australia, and the postage rates are different.

To USA:
1. Parcels from major cities in China such as Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Xian, Chengdu, Foshan, Shenzhen, Hangzhou, etc.: CNY 11.8 within 60g, and CNY 0.08 for each additional 1g.
2. Parcels from Harbin, Changchun, Hohhot, Taiyuan, Yinchuan, Lanzhou, Xining, Guiyang, Nanning and Haikou: CNY 14.4 within 60g, and CNY 0.09 for each additional 1g.
3. Parcels from Urumqi and Lhasa: CNY 16 within 60g, and CNY 0.1 for each additional 1g.

To UK:
the postage includes a handling fee of CNY 25 each piece and the shipping rate of CNY 0.07 each gram. If parcel weighs 50g, the postage is CNY 25 + CNY0.07×50 = CNY 28.5

To Australia:
EUB parcels can not reach the following regions: Lord Howe Island, Norfolk Island, Christmas Island, Coco (keeling) Island, and Antarctica.
Parcels within 500g is charged handling fee of CNY25 each piece and CNY 0.08 each gram. A 300g parcel costs CNY 25 + CNY 0.08×300 = CNY 49.
Parcels over 500g up to 2kg, the handling fee is CNY 30 each piece and CNY 0.08 each gram. A 600g parcel costs CNY 30 + CNY 0.08×600 = CNY 78
16

Supposedly, the cost is absorbed in the price we pay for US shipping costs, but probably it isn't totally covered. No matter what, the US post office has been a loosing proposition for a long, long time.

17

“Free shipping” is nice because it avoids adding something to your cart then abandoning it when you see you’re going to pay a significant portion of the cost of the item just in shipping. With “free shipping”, what you see is what you get. Same reason that Prime significantly increases an Amazon customers order volume.

18

100g from China to the UK is 9.5 CNY = $1.43 = £1.01 wow :slight_smile:

19

I would prefer if sellers would list items with prices as “shipping included” but “free shipping” is more appealing to many bargain seekers. I try to keep the term TANSTAAFL in mind (there aint no such thing as a free lunch). What I find more disturbing is the habit of some sellers exaggerating ‘sale’ prices. In the case of a Convoy L5 I purchased the price listed was $30.28 and stated this was 67% off the normal price. This price was better than the $41 from a competitor but I seriously doubt the price was ever even close to $90.

20

+1

That’s my understanding. The Chinese government subsidizes most of the shipping costs for exports. It’s a way of gaining inroads into foreign markets. It’s a way of keeping its population employed.

IMHO, enjoy it while you can. Sooner or later, the Chinese government will see the folly of footing the bill for shipping small items. It’s spending more than it will ever recoup.

Even for high ticket items, like my son’s hoverboard, I don’t think their business model makes sense. The hoverboard’s price was $350 including shipping. If I tried to ship the item back to the factory, it would cost well over $200. Assuming that this represents a truer cost of the shipping, is this marketing strategy a good use of China’s resources? The individual companies may be making a profit, but their government is sinking in around $20M per 100,000 sales.