You can’t measure capacity while charging, especially not for this 1.5V type. Ah is a stupid unit anyway for our applications.
Thank you !!
Absolutely, but they are measuring energy put into the cell. I assume they use the same method when doing a discharge. (?)
Note that Ah is a unit of charge, while Wh is a unit of energy. They’re not the same thing.
Plus, to compare battery energy capacities with Ah properly, it must be for the same voltage (which obviously isn’t the case for 1.5V vs 3.7V cells), same discharge rate, etc.
As for measuring energy when charging vs discharging, there are inefficiencies which means the total energy put in is more than what will be available to get out.
Maybe this ChatGPT explanation will help:
Ah (ampere-hours) and Wh (watt-hours) are both units used to measure electrical energy, but they represent different aspects of that energy.
Definitions:
Ah (Ampere-Hours): This unit measures electric charge. It indicates the amount of current (in amperes) that can be supplied by a battery over a specific period (in hours). For example, a battery rated at 1 Ah can theoretically supply 1 ampere of current for 1 hour.
Wh (Watt-Hours): This unit measures energy. It represents the total amount of work done or energy consumed over time. It is calculated as the product of power (in watts) and time (in hours). For example, a device that consumes 1 watt of power for 1 hour uses 1 Wh of energy.
Relationship:
The relationship between Ah and Wh can be expressed as:
Wh=Ah×V
where V is the voltage of the battery. This means that to convert ampere-hours to watt-hours, you need to know the voltage.
When to Use Each:
Use Ah when you are primarily concerned with the capacity of a battery in terms of how long it can supply a certain current. This is particularly useful in applications where the current draw is relatively constant, such as in battery specifications.
Use Wh when you need to understand the total energy available from a battery or the energy consumption of a device. This is more relevant when comparing the energy efficiency of devices or when planning energy usage over time.
Challenges and Limitations:
Ah Limitations:
- It does not account for voltage, so two batteries with the same Ah rating but different voltages will have different energy capacities.
- The actual capacity can vary based on discharge rates, temperature, and battery chemistry, making Ah a less reliable measure in some scenarios.
Wh Limitations:
- It requires knowledge of the voltage, which may not always be readily available or constant, especially in systems where voltage can fluctuate.
- It can be less intuitive for users who are more familiar with current measurements rather than energy consumption.
In summary, Ah is useful for understanding battery capacity in terms of current, while Wh provides a more comprehensive view of energy consumption and availability. The choice between them depends on the specific context and what aspect of electrical energy you are interested in measuring or comparing.
We do not use an assumed voltage or current (which is the method most chargers adopt). Instead, we use real-time sampling of current and voltage for integration to calculate the energy value. For LI150 batteries, during the charging process, due to the conversion rate differences in the internal integrated chip, there may be some discrepancies in the actual ENERGY. However, during discharging, it simulates real-world applications with a load, so the ENERGY measurement is accurate.
1 Thank
I never use charge cycle numbers whether A or W as any kind of a metric for cell capacity. Actually I have warned agaist doing that several time on BLF. My question was based on only having charged the 1.5 V cells and noticing the charger listed mWh instead of mAh for the cumulative charge. Then I wondered about the derivation for the metric and how it was calculated. Sorry if you misunderstood my question.
Maybe this is why we almost universally use mAh when testing capacity for cells in flashlights. We want to know how long a cell will run our lights at some specific current draw over time (Ah) It is also the way cells are rated by the manufacturer for the most part. It is even included in many cells as part of their identification number (30T, 40T, etc.), Though I do see more cells that include mWh in much smaller print on their labels, at least recently.
Anyway, my questions have been answered. At least I know that the information I want is available, even if it is not the default view. If I had designed the UI, I would have had the mAh on the main screen for consistency. But that is just a preference.
At least there will be consideration of tailoring the LISP function for different battery types. Which is very good! I will look forward to a firmware with this change…
Thanks again @enova18650.com .
Hi BLF,
We are excited to bring you a special promotion! This offer is for the Gyrfalcon S4000 Pro, and you can find the product link here:
https://enovapura.com/product/gyrfalcon-s4000-pro/
For BLF users, we are offering the following discount codes:
* €8 discount code: blf-5uhtnk9d , limited to 80 uses
* €13 discount code: blf-xvzuh9hq , limited to 30 uses
Please act fast as these discounts are first-come, first-served! The estimated shipping date is late October or early November, depending on logistics.
Thank you for your support, and we hope this promotion brings you great value! Feel free to reach out to us with any questions.
Best regards.
1 Thank
Not loading: browser says "The connection has timed out’, which usually is a problem with the URL or the server it points to.
@enova18650.com: I’m very interested in this as my SkyRC MC3000 display has stopped working and even after jumping through quite a few hoops, I can’t get a replacement display from either SkyRC or ProgressiveRC (the dealer I purchased my MC3000 from), so I’m gonna buy a different charger and it seems these Gyrfalcons are the only ones that measure up to the flexibility and programmability of the MC3000.
So, I ask:
-
Is the only difference between the S4000 Pro and the S8000 the maximum charging current? Or are there any other differences?
-
Do you have any plans for offering a similar discount for the S8000 in the next couple of months?
TIA!
EDIT: just yesterday I got an email from ProgressiveRC reporting they secured a free display module replacement for me (I will pay only for shipping), so I expect to be a happy camper with my MC3000 again soon. Still interested in those Gyrfalcons, tho (see my further posts below).
Is the maximum discharge rate the same per channel?
Aside from the charging current being 1A, all other functions are the same, and the accuracy is also identical.
There are currently no discount plans for the S8000 in the coming months.
1 Thank
Yes. The maximum discharge rate for each channel is 1A.
2 Thanks
I thought about building a BT+USB “adapter”
Thanks for your response. As per my “EDIT” on my previous post above, I’m no longer in a hurry to replace my MC3000, so I’m going to wait a little more on purchasing a Gyrfalcon.
That would not be a showstopper for me, I rarely if ever work with more than 1A as I don’t like stressing the cells.
A more serious issue for me is the Gyrfalcons not having Bluetooth, which would complicate their use for my particular case (I use my computer to capture full telemetry during charging, and the computer sits at a different place in my home such that passing a cable between them would be cumbersome).
I started thinking about building a BT-USB “adapter” (easy with an ESP32) for it, or even a Wifi-USB (using an even simpler and cheaper ESP8266 – I’ve done that for a solar charge controller I have here that only offered a cabled connection), but it would be even better if Enova could offer such a thing as an option.
Your ideas for the BT-USB adapter and Wifi-USB adapter are very interesting. We are also looking forward to seeing them implemented as soon as possible. Thank you again for your creativity and support!
At the appropriate time, we can offer this module as a standard accessory for users.
2 Thanks
You are welcome! I really like your attitude of consulting the community about your products, and I think the MC3000 needs competition, so please count on me on whatever I can do to help.
Just keeping the topic posted:
A couple of days ago, I finally received my replacement display, and managed to swap the bad one in my MC3000 with it; it was MUCH harder than it needed to be, as SkyRC didn’t send the complete unit with cabling but only the display all by itself, and the cabling that connects the display to the charger’s main board is soldered at the display’s end, so I tried to desolder it from the old display first; as my desoldering equipment was not up the task, after a frustrating hour or so I lost my patience and simply cut the wires of the existing cable and soldered them directly to the new display. Then another frustrating hour or so re-assembling all the springs and sliders and etc for the 4 slots (had to desolder the wires from the main board to the slider ‘base’ first, otherwise it was impossible to get everything correctly aligned, and then resolder them back afterwards), closed the charger’s cabinet, plugged it in and VOILÀ: it worked!
So again I have a decent fully working charger! Commemorated by recharging/refreshing/testing about 20 batteries I had lying around, and all worked great.
Thanks to Chadd Rains at ProgressiveRC for arranging the module, and for SkyRC for providing it (but please consider providing a complete module with the cabling the next time someone needs it).
4 Thanks
Glad it worked out, though it sounds like a major PIA…
1 Thank
TC(TestController ) is a powerful, flexible, and amazing software that offers endless possibilities for creative individuals.
Many thanks to HKJ for bringing us such a great tool.
3 Thanks
Hi BLF, does anyone have experience compiling a QT program into Linux and Mac versions? We would like to compile the firmware update tool into Linux and Mac versions and package them. TC (TestController) supports both Linux and Mac systems well, so providing the appropriate firmware update tool will bring great convenience to users on these platforms.
Additionally, the latest firmware version 3.0.36 for the S8000 and 3.2.36 for the S4000 Pro are about to be released. In this version, we have improved the SCPI command set, introduced a more powerful SCPI module, and added a graphical PC interface integrated with TC (TestController). This update will provide full control over the charger and data logging capabilities, making it more engaging and fun to play with for professional users who require these features. Moreover, they can modify the graphical interface definition files to create even more powerful interfaces.
3 Thanks
Compiling programs using Qt is pretty easy if you use qmake or well written CMake. Problems start when you look at portability. Qt has a huge pile of dependencies. Static linking is one solution to create portable, self-contained builds, but it can be tricky and unreliable. Just don’t even think about dynamic linking. It also depends on the version of Qt (not just major version, even minor version updates will often break it).
In general Linux is not made for pre-compiled applications because every distribution uses their own set of library versions. If you can’t link everything as static as possible, release the source code so that every user can compile it for their specific system.
Another possibility is using Flatpak, a package management system, which runs apps in a sandbox with a stable runtime environment.
For most Linux users a simple command line version might be sufficient. Everyone should be able to run something like ./gyrfalcon_updater /dev/ttyUSB0 firmware_3.0.36.bin. So as long as you don’t use Qt for non-graphical things, it would make building easier.
No experience with macOS.
2 Thanks