I used a now retired Pay-On-Delivery feature of Paypal. I think my money is safe. Here’s the statement I got from Paypal:
This is going to be my last post for this matter. I think Terry said he did make payment to HL for SC26 in the MT09R thread before admin closed the thread. Let say Terry is telling the truth then how come Terry made the remark about unless HL pays him first for the service fee before we get our refund. It doesn’t make any sense to me. Terry, you are HL US dealer so you are 100% responsible and don’t forget you took the money, not HL. I am sure your attorney will agree with that statement.
I love you all I will not leave the forum just hope there is a miracle happen that Terry finally wakes up and make things right.
Sorry to see you go sherman2k, but I think we all understand and can’t blame you. I hope to see you in another thread, maybe a Haikelite thread under much happier circumstances. :+1: 
I always paypal BLF members with friends and family to save them some money so I don’t get any protection anyways and never had a problem. I still suggest people do the same when purchasing from reputable members here that you trust to help them out.
For these HL GBs though, fortunately I did paypal under Products. I gave Terry enough time to explain from his perspective but after reading all his explanations, it did nothing to show he wasn’t lying and intentionally misleading us. Therefore I just filed a paypal dispute a few minutes ago.
You are protected as long as your PP account is in good standing, and you paid via “goods and services”
After reading, Terry’s post of Dale’s email, it actually sounded like HL intended to pay TA. They probably didn’t want to pay upfront until at the end since that’s how Terry have been doing business with them so they think that is appropriate. HL did respond to my PM and also emailed me saying they will send me replacements so they don’t seem that dishonorable.
However, where I find HL at fault is, besides not having proper QC of their flashlights before releasing, is that they decide to keep us in the dark. From reading Dale’s post, his English proficiency appears adequate to monitor these forums and announce/respond to our concerns. When there’s a problem, they should be upfront and transparent instead of staying silent. Reputable folks like TA and Skylumen/Vinh would have no problem letting us know if they see a problem in their product. You need to be honest and open to your customers if you want to gain their trust.
Hank is a good guy and very responsive. I have three D4 and they are fun pocket rockets but not really good EDCs imo. It gets hot way too fast and several times I accidentally turned them on in my pocket on high mode. OUCH!
I have been reading up for hours, you are right it’s an amazing light, but it’s a hot rod. I’m looking for a Camry not a Ferrari.
Thank you for your insight. Armytek partner or a zebralight may be my next big buy.
I was very excited for the sc26, but that crashed and burned.
I have doubts about Haiklite at the moment. Too many issues.
I’m not a lawyer, but maybe next time, before a GB is opened to members to participate, an Agreement of Terms and Conditions for Seller and Buyer can be given to possibly minimize the re-occurrence of this situation. Just a thought……
Also, a Definition of a Group Buy in a way that all Money is to be used Only to Purchase this Specific item. And Exclude any term that may be represented as a ” Promise “.
Armytek Partner is very good quality and I love their WW tint. However, their customer service is hard to get a hold of. Only way to get a response is if you contact their rep on their Facebook page. You may also look at Randy’s Pflexpro S2+ triple emitters. They are costly but it’s very high quality and it is currently my favorite EDC that I use every night. I got the 4000k 219b version and I love the tint and UI. Also the Reylight TiLan with 14500 batteries is a very nice EDC. They have a GB right now for $61. It’s my favorite AA/14500 flashlight in my collection.
For those of you who used PayPal in the GB, and funded the payment with a Credit Card, even if PayPal won’tt refund, you may still have recourse through the Credit Card Company, but you probably need to do it sooner rather than later. I believe the PayPal agreement says you agree not to do this, the reality is that it is an unenforceable condition. Rights granted through Federal Law cannot be signed away, and PayPal knows that, they just hope you aren’t smart enough to know the terms are unenforceable.
I unfortunately paid via my checking account, and as a result probably do not have any recourse. Moral of this story is to always pay on PayPal from a Credit Card (not a Debit Card).
It’s only as good as the paper it is written on. It’s like those people in Nigeria that has $25,000,000 who will give it to you as soon as you give your bank account, social security, etc.
The Reylight TiLan is my most used around the house light and I ordered a second one from that group buy to be sure one is always available.
The first condition is implicit…I pay, you provide…
I like the second part, but any contract, written or otherwise, is only as good as the two participants ability to keep their end of the bargain.
When I sent Texas Ace hundreds of dollars worth of flashlights, and sent him hundreds of dollars of cash, I had nothing more than a promise. I didn’t know him, his reputation or his abilities. I don’t know his real name, never saw his face and he lives too far away for me to go over there and beat his ass (ha!)…we only had TRUST and our WORD.
And that was worth its weight in gold! I have been more than happy to tout his abilities, professional behavior and his magic on these forums!
I still don’t know who he is and we never signed a contract…no need. Two trustworthy parties making a square deal…raw and honest.
“I pay, you provide…”
If I had issues with his costs or offerings, it is simple enough for me not to engage his services.
I understand there can be troubles with such transactions, but that is generally how it should go.
Yes
Seems to me that if you can’t get relief from the vendor, then any big pocket party that enabled the scam is your next logical target.
Just coming from an ex-Kalifornian. Talk to a few others bilked and see about a class action on the reprobate. There are so many hungry lawyers out there willing to work on commission. Just watch all the commercials on TV.
Just because you paid by check doesn’t mean you forfeit recourse.
I apologize for adding more misinformation to this thread. I’ve filed my claim. Unsubscribing from this thread and hoping for the best.
“Escrow”, anyone?
30sec of “research”, so I just pulled this out of my… computer… but this or something like it might be worth it for future GBs.
Maybe change Terry’s online store name to “he said, she said, they said”…haha
Seriously…
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