Ordered the cells, thanks for the advice.
Does anyone have the FET+7135 components placement chart? I can’t find it anywhere. Thanks
Would the Convoy M1 Flashlight Host work with a triple-spacer and carclo lens?
I’m still scratching my head over best way to host triple Rebel boards:
(I can find among their variety of red, red-orange, and amber emitters one of each that closely match electrically, these:
Red - 75 lm (LXML-PD01-0040)
Red-Orange - 90 lm (LXML-PH01-0050)
Amber - 77 lm (LXML-PL01-0040)
so I think they’d work wired in series if that makes sense
———-
Also, I’d been puzzling over what would be a good host for single-emitter 20mm boards — is the M1 that?
- FET: LFPAK56 N-Channel Mosfet
- 7135: AMC7135 Linear Regulator
- D1: SOD-323 / 0805 Schottky diode
- C1: 10uF MLC capacitor, 0603 or 0805 (X7R preferred)
- R1: 19.1K, 1% resistor, 0805
- R2: 4.7K, 1% resistor, 0805
- UI: ATTINY13A MCU, SSH or SSU variant
- Spring / LED leads
- OTC: 1uF MLC capacitor, 0805 (X7R preferred)
- Pad with side closest to MCU can also be used as electronic switch pad (no OTC installed).
I'm not sure about the triple, but I can answer your question about the series emitters. In series, all emitters will share the same current regardless of their respective vF, so as long as the weakest emitter can handle the peak current it will work fine.
I think they should fit in A6 (EE or Manker) with the convoy S2+ spacer Richard sells or use the Convoy s2+/s2 + spacer for a 20mm triple.
But what i haven’t figured out is how to best drive these. I assume we need to drive them in parallel, otherwise we would need a several cell host, but i don’t know what kind of driver is suitable, please Richard (or anyone who can help me solve this) if you can give a recommendation i would appreciated it.
I am thinking a linear one like a AMC7135 based or the LD-2 would work, but how much amp should the driver be set up for these kind of parallel driven XP-E/E2 colour & luxeon rebel emitters.
I think the top end is about 2A for most of them on a DTP mcpcb at least, and i plan to use either the triple 20mm Noctigon in the A6/S2+ or the XP32 noctigon in the X6 with the CUTE-3. But how do you calculate max 2A per emitter in a triple? Is it just to multiply it, so a LD-2 at 6A would be perfect? Or maybe one of those AMC7135 based drivers set up at 3A-4A would be more appropriate.
Sorry i have just built for maximum output DD builds from the start, so now when i need to step back to not over power these smaller emitters i am a bit lost.
A 7135 based driver is a good idea, but the problem when driving multiple color LEDs is that the forward voltage differs greatly between the different colors, so you really need to have different driver circuits for each when you drive them in parallel. This can be accomplished by simply cutting the output traces on some of the 7135s then running an individual wire from that 7135 group's output to each color LED. You can share the same PWM signal and ground without any issues, so you really don't need to have a special driver.
Separate 7135 channels sharing the same (or different) PWM pin is the way to go.
These are the specific emitters I picked — not the brightest for each color, but (going by the specs) trying to match them electrically.
Are there other numbers I need to try to match closely?
Or (entirely possible, indeed likely) am I just fooling myself here?
red: LXML-PD01-0040:
75lm
Maximum Rated Drive Current 700 mA
Typical Forward Voltage (4) 2.9 Vf
Maximum Forward Voltage (4,6) 3.51 Vf
red-orange: LXML-PH01-0050:
90lm
Maximum Rated Drive Current 700 mA
Typical Forward Voltage (4) 2.9 Vf
Maximum Forward Voltage (4,6) 3.51 Vf
amber: LXML-PL01-0040
77lm
Maximum Rated Drive Current 700 mA
Typical Forward Voltage (4) 2.9 Vf
Maximum Forward Voltage (4,6) 3.51 Vf
If those numbers are what they're actually rated at, then I wouldn't worry about running them all in parallel.
They should be. Each set of numbers above is linked to the source page for that particular LED, more at the links.
I realize I’m trying to be lazy here to run three in parallel. Age and shaky hands have me reluctant to try taking power off individual pins to give each emitter the right power. Anyone wanting brighter emitters can get them, they list specific Rebel LEDs that give more lumens for more power. I just picked the one of each color that happen to have matching numbers.
Thanks. So they’ll be on a Sinkpad2 base.
20mm base — that’s why I wondered if the Convoy M1 would be suitable.
Three emitters in series, 3v (no more than 3.5) each, to run at 350 to 700 mAh.
Can I do one battery and a driver for that? I realize it’d push the voltage way up.
I can surrender to the 2-cell flashlight but I’d really rather not start down that road, all mine now are 1-cell.
Again not aiming for best, just for ‘good enough’ at this point.
Am I blind or are there no schottky diodes? Also what model schottky do you use?
You are not blind. Up until now I have only offered them as part of a complete kit. The SOD-323 type included in the kits is the ultra-low vF PMEG1020EA,115. I also use a 0805 diode by AVX on some of the boards.
Thanks, i will try a 7135 based driver then.
But these color led’s we (hank & I) are planning to use, have mostly or always the same Vf because it is the same basic led semiconductor they are based on, the amber/red-orange/red/deep red/far red range. So i don’t think it is necessary to split output at least i hope i don’t have to bother with that. I guess i have to try & see what happens.
Not always the same VF numbers — look at http://www.luxeonstar.com/assets/downloads/DS68.pdf and page down to the “Electrical Characteristics” list (page 7)
There are three different part numbers each for “red” and “red-orange” and two different part numbers for “amber” — each part number has different forward voltage numbers listed, for the same color emitter. So getting three colors that should be identical electrically means selecting only the part numbers I listed.
You are right it is better to pick those who are closest to each other but I don’t think it is a big problem, i believe the excess energy will burn off in the emitter as heat. Also the ones i have seen for sale have been the ones with higher Vf.
And at start they will get 4.2v (not accounting for Volt sag) from the cell and the excess will burn of as heat there also. I have used a red XP-G2 on a sinkpad running straight from the cell (a Efest IMR10400) and the only side effect besides a lot of heat was the massive output :bigsmile:
Thanks Richard for suggesting it is possible to use different 7135 groups, i wanted to use the rebel lime also but i couldn’t figure out how to limit its output so it wouldn’t overpower the mix, but that could work. I had been thinking i needed to use a resistor at the bridge on the star to limit the lime one. I still thing that is a good possibility for some control, but then again it might be based on wrong assumptions.
I am going to have to eat my words a bit about what I said before about the BLF A6 firmware. While I still don't think it is for everyone, I do think it is really cool. I put it on a flashlight and have been playing with it for a few days now and I think that it's pretty great. A lot of my prior problems were due to me having the wrong setup when I flashed it before, but TK helped me get that all sorted out. Thank you ToyKeeper for all of your hard work! 
So — would it be possible to fix up a ToyKeeper driver to run the three electrically matched colored emitters Cajampa and I are interested in?
I’m not up to doing this but I could pay for the work, it’s an area I think widely enough interesting to be worth doing.
I can mail you two of those triples (red, red-orange, and amber Rebels on a 20mm Sinkpad2) if you’d be interested in building two flashlights, at my expense of course. We could pass one around to Cajampa and whoever else might be interested in finding out how it works for them, if anyone else is trying the “low-or-no-blue” evening lights to help with sleep.
The question Cajampa raised is whether having three somewhat different Rebel color emitters is going to give better color vision than the single PC Amber Rebel emitter. (The phosphor in the PC Amber gives a typical wide bell curve between 510nm and 710nm, peaking around the amber 590
to be compared to the coverage from the red, red-orange, and amber standard emitters
Alternatively, you could build a light with the phosphor-pumped PC-amber and PC-lime emitters — those have different electrical requirements and would need tapping off pins as you describe — both ought to be usable for light that doesn’t disrupt sleep, I think.
—- maybe a quad board with two of each?
_
People vary* (variations in DNA and repetitions of genes make variations in proteins — for the visual system that can make slight variations in the receptor molecules between one person and another) — but broadly speaking it’s the 440-500nm wavelength band that’s tied to the sleep system — http://ursula.chem.yale.edu/~batista/publications/ShivaJACS.pdf
_
- Aside: gene variations multiply when a gene is on both copies of a chromosome, if both copies are active. For those people who have two X chromosomes (so two different variations on those genes operating to make receptors) a rare few have different enough genes to build four rather than three peaks in the spectrum of their color receptors — look up Tetrachromacy - Wikipedia
(People also vary a lot with age as the color of the natural lens becomes more yellowish: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.278.764&rep=rep1&type=pdf)
Extensive summary of what’s known: Protecting the Melatonin Rhythm through Circadian Healthy Light Exposure - PMC
Yeah, i am not an envious person for anything………but Tetrachromacy sounds extremely special.
It is just a reality extremely few of us humans can ever experience & from the description in interviews of those women that have it it sounds absolutely AMAZING.
But then i am a guy who really enjoys nature and the delicate shades of patterns that make up our natures visual experience in flowers, foliage & the changing shades of the forest, so the possibility that i am missing out of most of them is a bit sad.
The horrible backside for the women who are blessed with Tetrachromacy, is that the gene mutation that gives them 4 peaks and a vision of up 100,000,000 different shades of colors, also rob many of the sons & men in there genetic lineage of the color vision 
hank, i did not know the melanopsin effected limit only went to 500nm, i have always thought it was 550nm. But you have probably checked more research than me, but i have to ask is the 550nm limit wrong then?
Because i was a bit disappointed in the rebel lime, i thought it was just a strong peak of 20nm wide, but it was a PC led with a 100nm wide peak band.
Do you know if there exists any colour led’s in 550nm or higher but still green, but that is not a phosphor led but a single thin peak like the red/amber and such led’s? I have though for months that the lime was the solution but i have reconsider that i think. But then again it doesn’t hurt to experiment with the lime if that is all there is in the top end of green emitter, it really should improve color vision a lot. And lower the barrier for entry for the less health conscious of us who want to try it out.
EDIT I wonder if not the PC amber + red-orange + red or swapping the red-orange for the deep red, because the red-orange is so close to the red one. One good reason for doubling up on red & red-orange could be that because the eyes sensitivity drops so much for the higher nm it might make the light more even. For example my setup with amber & red ledstrips, gives a bit of an amber push and i think i will experiment with adding more reds to compensate. Need to order more strips first though.
Another possibility if the limit really is 500nm, is to use the lime + PC amber + one red or preferable as many of the red spectra led’s you can fit. That should give the widest possible color above 500nm and should be more pleasing in day to day work the last few hours before bed.
In my last order I ordered a few of the new 3XP Sinkpad MCPCBs. I could get them a little bit cheaper than the Noctigons, and they are already configured in parallel, so it would save me the work or bridging or adding jumpers. I tried a few out last night, and I am not impressed.
Here are the cons compared to the 3XP Noctigon, from least important to most important:
- They don't look as cool.
The Red Noctigons look great underneath the optics. - They aren't gold plated. This makes the solder not flow as well, and the backside tends to oxidize during reflow.
- They are too big. They measure 20.6mm maximum diameter, which is too big to fit in an S2 or S2+. I sanded mine down so it would fit, not a huge deal, but another step with the potential for a screwup. The Noctigon is 19.7mm maximum diameter.
- The center hole is too small. You can't fit 22 AWG silicone wire in there, and 20 AWG Teflon is a very tight fit. Drilling out the hole then deburring on each one is a show stopper.
- The traces are weak. I put a triple 219C together last night with an FET driver, turned it on, then a few seconds later it went dark and I smelled that nice burn smell. I figured that I had screwed up and shorted something, but no, the trace burned up! If you do use these, use the smaller pads instead of the big ones, since they seem to be able to handle more current. This probably won't be an issue for regulated lights or maybe even triple XP-G2 S4s with an FET driver, but it is obvious that the traces are much smaller. The Noctigon uses 3oz. huge copper traces.
In summary: I think that while it was a valiant initial effort, the Noctigon 20mm 3XP MCPCB clearly outshines the Sinkpad for flashlight use.
Burned Trace