The 26650/32650 kicks their hind end sag wise.
Not all of them, maybe do some homework
Bang for the buck a regular old cheap TF Flame 26650 gram for gram is tough to beat. And I only have to buy one. :bigsmile:
You bring up a good point tho. If a 26650 were to be made exactly of the same material as a high end 18650 it should kick its hind end sag wise, right?
I’ve avoided posting so far……
I’m not a fan of pencil beam throwers, despite building a couple, I’m also not to interested in massive flooders in most cases despite having assembled a very serious flooder.
Point 1:- if you really want to get the most out of xp-g2’s for throw and xm-l2’s, and have a light usable for more than ten minutes of constant full output, 1 cell is not going to cut it for long, bump up to two good 18650 or 26650 cells in series, you actually get some usable run time and can hit that 5 or 6a target without voltage sag sucking your output.
There are configurations that both give that output, drop into the right pocket and give a good usable beam, my super flooder is a 40mm 3x18650 tube light that will direct drive till the cells run out, it only throws 100 feet or so, but all that area gets lit up, it makes a skyray king pointless imo.
In comparison my xp-g2 two cell convoy l2 has a 3a driver, alu mcpcb and nw emitter, not really a good start for a thrower……in theory, it destroys anything else I own and is now awaiting me having the time in real life for the next set of experiments. It gives a bright enough spill to happily navigate by and ruins any xm-l thrower I have, next iteration will be using a five amp driver and either a copper mounted nw domed xp-g2 or a copper mounted dedomed xm-l2 u2……I dont know which I’ll prefer till I build up the two to compare, both by eye and lux meter.
The l2 happily fits the breast pockets of my english surplus army jacket, at 5a to the emitter, its only 2.5a/ 26650 cell so voltage sag is negligible and run time is imo brilliant.
This is something I’ve been pondering today, this affection with single cell lights, people even insisting on shortening good multicell lights. They dont balance so well, all the weight is in the head and the dst is one of the worst for this, I feel it’ll give me rsi in single cell mode so I’d sooner stick to the three cell tube and use a good weighted spacer to hamstring the output.
If you really need a stubby thrower, a zy-t08 is a good start, two parallel cells, same head size as a dst, huge pill for whatever single cell driver you pick, I have both a standard ish zy-t08 and an asgard as I liked the form so much, their both goid lights, but for a thrower, I want two things, more voltage and and xp-g2, xm-ls are far too floody.
Aw imr18650 will put your TF battery to bed without dinner
Best of both worlds: Sony US26650VT with a max discharge rate of 50A.
I think A123’s are pretty good as well. Did anyone say ultracaps? 
they’re not IMO all that heavy important tho in the modded DST. Head weight wise for instance in a stubbied DST bored out for 26650 the extra weight of the batt helps to make it much more nicely balanced than you’d think. The head of a DST is pretty dang light considering its size thanks to a plastic reflector and not overly thick head walls. When you hold a stubbied DST like this your hand naturally wraps around the head and switch. Believe me it feels very well balanced. One note for you though, Gord. When I bore mine out I do it from the switch end not the tailcap end. Big difference.
And again because in particular of the DST’s outstanding switch design a single 26650 will run a LOT longer than you surmise here on high. A LOT. Especially with an XML2.
Lastly a ZY-08 not only gets pooped on by a 26650 de-domed DST it gets flat out diarrhead’ to death. :bigsmile:
if you really want a good single cell, you need to be looking beyond trustfire flames, this is bordering on ridiculous now.
I’m result oriented. If my DST’s run better on a single TF Flame 26650 compared to a single Panasonic 18650 is this ridiculous?
A battery capable of continuous 10,000 amps still won't push more current through the LED than the forward voltage will allow. The higher the amperage the higher the forward voltage which means less runtime at full current before the Vin falls below Vf and output starts to fall.
Two cells in series, even completely discharged at 3.0v each/6.0v total, are still well above the XML2's Vf at any drive current short of the LED frying. Single cells and hard-driven LEDs go together about as well as hard-driven LEDs and plastic reflectors. BTW, speaking of plastic reflectors, if that thing hasn't melted yet it's not half as badass as you think.
I have the bits to make a single 26650 dst, as I say its uncomfortably unbalanced, it needs the other two cells or a subtitute to balance correctly. Single cell, its head heavy and uncomfortable, and even a king kong cell soon sags at nearly 5a output, that’s why I prefer two or three 26650’s, heavier but much better balanced and oodles more runtime at full output to boot.
Thing is though, a convoy l2 has a bigger reflector, which you count as important, the mcpcb is screwed to the head - better heat sinking, its lighter than a dst and shorter so more pleasant to carry, it comes with an a/r lense as standard, has a screw in reflector so setting focus is a cinch regardless of emitter, you can even build it single cell if you wish since the body tube is split, I just prefer the longer runtime at full output from two cells and the feel of it, since it still feels head heavy in single cell mode.
Plus as I point out, an xm-l is just not keeping up with an xp-g2 at lower current demands and will happily take the same high current an xm - l2 will take, care to guess which has the higher surface brightness?
There are so to speak natural resistance points I left in btw. I didn’t go under 22 awg (although 24awg is ok too) and I left the positive spring stock. If you think something has to melt before it becomes truly bad ass I think you’re misguided when it comes to leds just plain generating excess heat and not generating light. And btw the pill’s design, emitter base thermal transfer efficiency, has more to do with extracting bad ass output than sheer volts and current. Very Efficient very high output equilibrium believe it or not can indeed be obtained from just one 26650 if you know what you’re doing and why. The DST design is why I’m doing it and basically that’s why I know what I’m doing. Nothing magically sophisticated here tech wise.
IMO however the DST is very happy with XML x XML2 plus it gives enough floodiness to satisfy even the most ardent of anti-pencil throwers and also takes advantage of the bigger reflector.
I’ll have to try an XPG2 in one soon to compare tho. I might end up surprised. I really like XPG2’s btw. IMO I think they’re the best emitter design out there bang for buck wise. But to be completely forthright my results so far indicate that XPG2’s are somewhat happier in somewhat smaller reflectors to show their true shining potential.
I think XML2’s in the right design are tough to beat overall at least for now.
If an xml2 is driven hard, it can melt a plastic reflector. Have you done a tailcap reading notawhackjob?
Like I’ve said, I’m results oriented. Build one for yourself then see for yourself. The DST has outstanding thermal conduction. It won’t get hot enough to fry the reflector IOW. Ok well if I go nutso with batteries to 6A - 7A I suppose it would I dunno.
I’m just pointing out that this simple cheap unit de-domed runs a lot better on 26650 than maybe you’d think is all.
It just works.
You result based, that’s code for you don’t know what your doing fully. Yet you argue facts as though you do? I kinda figured but thanks for clearing it up
I know because I have a multimeter, lux meter, etc. How many lights have you worked on that spec out perfectly through all the measuring gadgets, drivers, and so on, but just don’t perform all that well through where it only finally truly counts? You know out the front and to the end of its beam?
They should work better just because your garage measuring says they should? And btw, vast majority of us here don’t really have the high enough end of testing equipment to say with complete authority what’s what. A Texaspyro type who’s in the business with the advantages of a company’s deep pocket is another totally different professional matter entirely.
I think you need to revisit some things too to impress me as well.
Again if something generally works, it works. I don’t technically analyze it to minutia death because in the end every light is different and it’ll drive you nuts and again I just don’t have the requisite technical pro-grade equipment to see the true picture. :bigsmile:
your now arguing that a plastic reflector that has been oroven to seriously hinder output is better than optically treated glass? And that despite pretty exhaustive testing a single cell linear driver gives better results than a constant current buck driver and that a screw in pill with a floating mcpcb is better than a solid head with the mcpcb lapped to the head then screwed down, and a cheap chinese cell easily beats any other cell suggested?
Why even take any suggestions on board? clearly you already have all the answers we all missed, we should bow down at your feet and not question such imperical testing.
I would like to apologise for my ignorance abd will be pm’ing you for design specs instantly because I am clearly missing sone vital component in my builds both with regards to output and usability of said light……
I’m not saying that or if I’m interpreted to say that somehow it’s not what I mean. Again, de-dome that DST of your’s, stick in an XML2, copper the tail cap, put in 22 awg wire, run an East-092 or something similar to the original version, shorten the tube so you don’t have silly springs getting in the way adding more resistance, and last but not least run the hottest single 26650 your little heart desires and then tell us what you see vs what you got. Heck just run the stock de-domed XML for that matter. Forget about my junk TF 26650’s. But you should bore out the switch end to get there. Remember I only paid $22.97 for the DST and I could’ve recently only paid $18 but they changed the price the next day on me.
Your Convoy with a bigger reflector and similarly modded will probably be more impressive than this modded DST. I say probably but you’ll have to do a real life comparison. Every light is different though/
Btw I don’t know where I argued anything about a plastic reflector being crappy, or that bit about AR glass either. Maybe I missed something. Again, I’m mainly results oriented.
I don’t need to……I know, using grade 1 calibrated eyeball and lux meter that a hard driven two cell domed xp-g2 beats a hard driven domed xm-l2 when the xp-g2 is in a significantly bigger reflector. if I dedome both to keep things equall……xp-g2 is still going to win, just that neither will give what is to me a usable beam, and as has been pointed out just check what your xm-l2 is drawing, you might be suprised, I know they wont pull what an xm-l will, everything else being equal, I also know you have a devil of a jod getting them over 4a single cell, and you need to be using very low resistance cells to do it, not protected chinese cells……