I got pretty much the same Q's, so can't help much. I'm thinking though these have all the characteristics of what we do de-doming wise - double the candela, tighter beam, possible tint shift (coolest tints not available), and lumens loss (only available in lower bins). Everything I see leads me to believe they are using the same XP-L dies.
when you say “lumen loss” what exactly are you saying? from the 7000k down to the lowest bin 5000k how much lumen loss is there?
I have a xpl hi (from mouser, the not so great bin one) in house, but have no time to do a test right now (need a bit of zen too for testing). I hope in a few days time. Perhaps that answers some questions about output and performance.
No - lumens loss comes from de-doming. It varies, but maybe 10% - 20%, so I'd expect a "factory dedome" LED to roughly have the same loss's. The K temps is the associated with the tint, while lumens is associated with the bin. A 'bin' (R5, S2, U5, V2, etc.) defined by CREE has a specific range of lumens output, nothing to do with tint.
Of course a 4C and 4D may have the same 4500K or so rating, but visually they differ - see the tint chart above in post #271.
At least this is how I understand it 
.
my understanding the higher the Kelvin Scale The Brighter to the human eye. but with a yellow tint IE lower Kelvin the more VIVID things get. which I prefer the lowest Kelvin possible.
Well, that perception might be true, but the light meters tell the true story, and that's how CREE rates them. Bluish cool whites can be painful and have the appearance of brightness. CRI is really the important factor. The Nichia's I have sure don't seem too have any hint of yellow (to me), but colors sure do stand out.
We had a really weird dusk event a week or two ago here in the N.E. on L.I. - storms just passed through, and still big clouds lingered while the sun was setting. All the colors outdoors were really popping - never saw grass or plants as green before in my life. However the sun light was reflecting/refracting to the ground must have produced some super high CRI state - skies were yellow/orange but the effect on the ground was totally insane! I wouldn't say it was a yellow tint, just that the colors, specially green, looked really deep and bold. Maybe I'm just noticing this stuff more now...
Eagle Eye Sunglasses have a yellow tint, this produces vivid greens and shooters love em.
Sounds like you experienced something like that on a massive scale due to the bounced sunlight from the storm clouds. Polarized glasses yield a neat result for a similar reason, grass and tree leaves reflect the blue light of the sky above them, creating a “haze” over the actual details. The polarized lenses kill this reflected haze and let the true colors shine through from the grass and tree leaves. Clouds look awesome through polarized lenses as well, a 3D effect with the moisture content in the clouds seemingly standing out in high relief.
Meter’s also see in colors, djozz has found his meters to be more or less sensitive according to the color of light. So perhaps we get high meter readings from the blue/white emitters and low readings from the orangy warm ones.
I feel a build coming on! Duplicate hosts, built exactly the same way with the same output binned emitters but as wide a color tint as I can find. Should be interesting. Will have to give away the warm one afterwards, can’t stand those!
I love when that happens! :bigsmile: I remember a cool one with red clouds. Too bad it’s so brief! Would be fun to have whole days of altered colors. Of course a few people would freak out thinking the world was ending, particularly with red. More fun.
Looking at the data sheet, it looks like the closest to a 3D tint would be the E3 (5000K) or F4 (4750K). It suggests both should be available in V2 flux bins, at 70 or 75 CRI.
I hope to get some of those in a triple; XPLAWT-H0-0000-000LV20F4 or XPLAWT-H0-0000-000LV20E3 seem to be the order codes for the F4 or E3 V2 at 75 CRI.
TK, you might want to try a single in the upper side first, the ones I put in my Meteor seem whiter than the datasheet would indicate. That F4 may end up too warm, I’d double check em before building a triple.
Not sure how, but my Meteor shows output quite a bit higher than that sheet indicates as well. The logic says it can’t be this bright, but comparing to a triple 9V MT-G2 at over 10,000 lumens the M43 is whiter and brighter. My lightbox says it’s over 12,000 at start-up. It’s VERY intense, for sure!
Hmm, interesting. I’ve been a little paranoid about Cree tints which don’t use the usual Cree bin system, since I got a 5000K MT-G2 and it appears to actually be like 5600K. Then again, this might be due to driving it with a FET, so there’s some blue shift to be expected.
In a Meteor, I’d expect some red shift in low modes and a little blue shift on turbo. And somewhat similar behavior in my target light, which uses a FET+1 so there will be tint shift between modes.
Edit: After building a light with 5000K XP-L HIs, I’m very happy with the tint. It looks like it’s right at 5000K and looks nicer (whiter) than a 3C tint. And by whiter I don’t mean warmer or cooler, but rather without noticeable coloring. White like a Nichia 219B, only it’s ~5000K instead of ~4750K.
So what have we established? That XP-L HI is going to be white-ish, but only XM-L2 T6-ish white, not U2-bin white??
Actually look in the datasheets and you will see a clear 8000K line and where it falls, almost in the middle of 0B, again that is what I have looked at. I am a bit too old on forums to not know this ANSI white chart.
What exactly are you saying? That CREE will not follow their binning standards?
I used the puke gif to describe the 8000k color. It’s got to be blue/purple. :Sp
No. You are given 2 order codes which include tons of tints in the 51 group (the first 2 ordering codes actually in the same row), which you can order for XP-L HI. Look at the massive range of tints in that order code, it is basically a lottery of what you get. So 0B is possible to get for XP-L HI.
This is pointless - it's not 0B. Pretty sure what I said in post #274 is correct. KD is reading the CREE label wrong. Just look at Hank's CREE label I linked earlier - same format.
Oh yeah, you are correct, 1C0.
Help!
I think I’m either not getting the whole hype about dedomed XPL/XML2 (and now XPL HI) or the math is really more psychological.
Ever since dedoming took off, I was rather convinced that there is no real gain in triple setups, for example - small package with Carclo optics. XPL came out and it was a perfect candidate to dedome and make triple Carclo 20mm setup - most here use Convoy S series for those builds.
So my theory was that when you dedome, you lose output but increase throw… in the process you usually lose a good tint as well. But don’t you get a LED with about the same characteristics as XPG2 then - minus the good tint?
So finally XPL HI came out, factory dedome, just perfect. Everybody is planning to use them in triple setups; I thought about that too. I even ordered some samples from Mouser which I built into sample modules and play with them for few days comapring tints. Tints from 5000K and 4000K LEDs from Mouser are both beautiful.
But then I compared datasheets. It seems that XPL HI U5 equals to XPG2 S2 in output; not sure about lux. That’s a good thing to compare in upcoming days. That means that highest bin XPL HI V2 equals XPG2 S4 in output. You can push both of these LEDs to similar outputs up to around 6 Amps if I’m not mistaken. And we had XPG2 S3 in 5000K tint from Intl.Outdoors for quite some time now.
So what am I missing here? Is it really just psychological, from drilling optics to fit XPL HD to dedoming ourselves or using factory XPL HI compared to just using XPG2 in highest available bins?
The thing is, XPG2 is half the price of XPL HI and to my eyes, per datasheets - they perform the same. Mouser 5000K is U5 which is XPG2 S2 so a step back from Intl.Outdoor S3 3C…
According to the datasheets, the XP-G2 has a max current of 1.5A while the XP-L has a max current of 3A. There are going to be differences, especially when hot rodding these emitters. With a good copper star and DTP the XP-G2 can be pushed up towards 5A. The XP-L can be pushed towards 7A and then some. I’ve never found an XP-G2 that compares in output to an XP-L, the larger die makes more light, every light I’ve built holds this to be true. The datasheets don’t necessarily represent this well, nor does the configuration tool. I don’t know why that is, but in real world builds the XP-G2 can’t do what the XP-L can, in any light.
There is controversy of this finding, and probably as much because it’s me as any other reason. But I replaced XP-G2 S4 2B emitters in my Nocigon M43 Meteor with XP-L HI emitters and the output in my lightbox, and in real world use, is MUCH higher with the new HI’s. It’s being said my numbers are wrong. I have no idea, really, my light box reads accurately when testing ANSI rated lights, so how could it be wrong just for this specific light? But here’s why the doubt… 12 of the S4 2B’s made 7690 lumens in this light, replacing those with HI’s gives me 12,530 lumens. The difference is staggering, it’s real, you see it as well as feel it in the heat being made. The controversy makes me want to just not share my findings, but it is what it is and it IS insanely bright!
I feel like this is largely due to the fact that the Carclo 10507 optics are not being altered, the emitter is not being modified, and the two fit together perfectly in the light. Optimization can go a long way, preventing losses that otherwise add up in a big way to gobble up everything we’ve worked hard to gain.
Take all the above with a grain of salt, I’m considered to be wrong most of the time, crazy even, and a “mad scientist” when it comes to the lights. Hope some of this has been helpful in some small way.
Shine on!