Notice - Buying Li-ion cells from FastTech; SGP temporarily unavailable

[Chloe]

This is the problem, RMM. ;_; I am hoping there will be clearer rules set forth regarding safe packaging, training staff on handling procedures, instead of blanket banning.

[tallboybass]

I just placed an order for the above mentioned ” 4x18650 Emergency Mobile Power Rechargeable Batteries Pack Charging Box “:https://www.fasttech.com/products/1280801 + 4- LG D1 18650s and told them to put the batteries in the box. We’ll see what happens….the things I do for BLF….oy.

I’m looking at it like - 4xD1’s for $24.15….and it comes with a free charger!!

[hank]

Here’s what the aviation industry is concerned about, for reference:

Hill-0513-Passive_Protection_of_Li_Cells3.pdf

As you can see they’d been working hard (well, until the government funding lapsed) to get a clear description of safe ways to package large boxes full of Li-ion cells.
Unfortunately for all concerned, most of the fires on aircraft didn’t leave much evidence behind, so what’s here are experiments trying to assess the problem.

One of those pictured sloppily packaged boxes — half full of loose cells knocking around with the cardboard dividers falling apart — would be pretty scary.

No, it’s not you or me they’re after, but in the cargo hold at 33,000 feet, all of the packages look the same.

[B42]

@keltex78

@mfm

@keltex78

Take the bare cells, place them in a sealed tube so that any ‘venting’ will be accompanied via a significant explosion, with shrapnel…

Cells doesn’t spontaneously vent. A flastlight would prevent from outside damage (of course it must be protected from short circuit or activation).

…um… That was supposed to be sarcastic humor. If spontaneous venting isn’t what we are scared of, then what’s the problem?

They don’t spontaneously vent. But they also dont necessarily vent when directly targeted and damaged by large crushing forces. It seems more likely that a cell is over discharged and vents than has deliberate damage done to it.

So my observation has been; isn’t the probability that someone will load a device which can accidentally be turned on/overdischarged and vent (or cause a fire by a massively hot multi-LED light in an enclosed space with paper) much more likely than someone gets a sledge hammer or ice pick and randomly smashes mail hitting the batteries or runs over the package with a Hummer?

[B42]

@hank

Here’s what the aviation industry is concerned about, for reference:
http://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/systems/May13Meeting/Hill-0513-Passive_Protection_of_Li_Cells3.pdf

As you can see they’d been working hard (well, until the government funding lapsed) to get a clear description of safe ways to package large boxes full of Li-ion cells.
Unfortunately for all concerned, most of the fires on aircraft didn’t leave much evidence behind, so what’s here are experiments trying to assess the problem.

One of those pictured sloppily packaged boxes — half full of loose cells knocking around with the cardboard dividers falling apart — would be pretty scary.

No, it’s not you or me they’re after, but in the cargo hold at 33,000 feet, all of the packages look the same.

Ah, tks for posting that, thats where this is coming from I guess. Interesting, they do seem to be saying they think an explosion is preferable to just venting/fire too. That does seem to follow that enclosed in a flashlight is preferable to them and may stop a fire from spreading.

[Toaster79]

@tallboybass

@unknown00101

@koyotee

There is an exception to purchase the e-liquids/lithium batteries together with other products: the batteries in the order can be inserted into the product. Ex. Customer purchase a flashlight using 2*18650 batteries, and also purchase 2*18650 batteries,_ we will insert the batteries with insulation pads into the flashlight. This can ensure the package get ship out smoothly._

did you read or just stu*?

Well I read “can” implied to me that it’s an option. It could just be language barrier though and they meant “will” though that could be misconstrued as well… Perhaps I’m reading into it too much.

Me thinks koyotee is just being a d*.

Are you both stu*** and d**?

[tallboybass]

:zipper_mouth_face: 0:)

[18sixfifty]

@Old-Lumens

Love that! First it was Meth Labs, now it will be Li-ion Labs. No more buying Li-ions, or we will be put under police watch and Homeland Security will come to our doors with automatic weapons! Mandatory 20 year sentence for having more than six Li-ions in your home! Possession with intent to distribute…

I’m gonna go back to doing NiMH lights.

I had to register with homeland insecurity for buying 500 battery boxes and chargers and a thousand 14500 batteries for e-cig mods. They got stopped at customs and I had to fill out the Homeland insecurity paperwork before they would release them. It was about ten pages of gobbledy gook and took about two weeks. I think Fed Ex might have actually tipped them off. That was who I got the first round of paperwork from anyway. I still had a security clearance active from when I was in S2 which is battalion level (infantry) Army Intelligence. I honestly don’t know if that helped or hurt? :davie:

[Chloe]

I am surprised you don’t get onto a list for buying high capacity Ni-MH packs after the Boston bombings. Or maybe you do…

[tallboybass]

Woowee, my order that got halted in its tracks contained…lithium batteries, a laser, [gulp] a digital pocket scale…it’s a wonder “homeland insecurity” hasn’t come after me!!

[BT-UK]

@B42

@keltex78

@mfm

@keltex78

Take the bare cells, place them in a sealed tube so that any ‘venting’ will be accompanied via a significant explosion, with shrapnel…

Cells doesn’t spontaneously vent. A flastlight would prevent from outside damage (of course it must be protected from short circuit or activation).

…um… That was supposed to be sarcastic humor. If spontaneous venting isn’t what we are scared of, then what’s the problem?

They don’t spontaneously vent. But they also dont necessarily vent when directly targeted and damaged by large crushing forces. It seems more likely that a cell is over discharged and vents than has deliberate damage done to it.

So my observation has been; isn’t the probability that someone will load a device which can accidentally be turned on/overdischarged and vent (or cause a fire by a massively hot multi-LED light in an enclosed space with paper) much more likely than someone gets a sledge hammer or ice pick and randomly smashes mail hitting the batteries or runs over the package with a Hummer?

That’s a point. Cells nicely inserted in a powerful torch. Handling staff lobbing around the packages and manage to switch on the torch/knock out insulation pads? :~

[DB_Custom (Dale)]

If they don’t make some allowances, we won’t have laptop computers, cell phones, ipads, kindles, everything that is powered by li-ion and is made in China. It’s not just the li-ion market that will crash around them, but electronics of all kinds. So they allow the proprietary power supply in the device, but not a loose cannon. Battery packs for laptops have built in protection through circuitry, as do most all devices. So there is some safety by being installed.

The cells we have all been buying were never supposed to ship like they have. Hasn’t anyone noticed the merchants lying on the customs forms? Gift? Toy? Parts? Really? Don’t you think if they’d put Li-ion batteries on the customs forms we’d all have been out of batteries a long time ago? The lies are catching up, that’s all. And now we’re in the middle of it, used to getting what we want and used to ignoring the rules.

Looks like we will be getting used to something else.

[koyotee]

So my observation has been; isn’t the probability that someone will load a device which can accidentally be turned on/overdischarged and vent (or cause a fire by a massively hot multi-LED light in an enclosed space with paper) much more likely than someone gets a sledge hammer or ice pick and randomly smashes mail hitting the batteries or runs over the package with a Hummer?

Does any of you know how to read and also understand the things you’ve read?

we will insert the batteries with insulation pads into the flashlight. This can ensure the package get ship out smoothly.

[unknown00101]

Factoring in human error and laziness, I suspect quite a few(read:most) will not have insulation pads included.

Also the visual of someone walking around stabbing and smashing packages is hilarious and probably accurate as well.

Kind of related: My poor subwoofer (50 pounder) was basically in pieces the first 2 they sent. The second to last one I saw the guy kick it out the truck into the gravel and give it a few more kicks. Then he brought it to my doorstep and left. Really wish I had the phone I have now, back then.

[Old-Lumens]

@koyotee

Does any of you know how to read and also understand the things you’ve read?

Are you purposefully fishing, or did you just bring your trolling equipment by accident?

[koyotee]

It’s called functional illiteracy.

[light_junkie]

Clhoe what happened that jasmine has an entire new staff and I ordered some Panasonic 18650's and just received a message stating my my order originally ordered on 9/3 has been received so I have no idea what that means.

[pommie]

I think that their biggest worry is flammable liquids (also banned) packed in an unsafe manner, leaking and shorting the batteries, also packed in an unsafe manner,

• the shorted batteries vent flames,

• the package is soaked in a flamable liquid,

• you can guess the rest.

The above happened on a cargo plane, thankfully it made an emergency landing, nobody was hurt,
and because nobody was hurt it was only a short article on about page 8~9 of the papers.

If those batteries were in a host then the liquid would probably not get in the host, but if it did, and the battery vented flames they would be confined in the host body, so no fire.

Thats the thing about all of this, it is only when somebody is killed that it gets big coverage, but if you go digging this has been a problem for years, only lately with the growth of the ecig has it become to serious to let continue.

When we buy stuff from China (or anywhere else) we should insist that the seller declares exactly what is inside, then the postal system knows the safe way to handle it, and if that means paying more for postage then so be it.

Cheers David

[unknown00101]

@Old-Lumens

@koyotee

Does any of you know how to read and also understand the things you’ve read?

Are you purposefully fishing, or did you just bring your trolling equipment by accident?

Why does you ask such a question Old Lumens?

[Chloe]

@light junkie

Clhoe what happened that jasmine has an entire new staff and I ordered some Panasonic 18650’s and just received a message stating my my order originally ordered on 9/3 has been received so I have no idea what that means.

FastTech selling e-cigarette products happened… Did you get any tracking info for the 9/3 order? Was it shipped by SG Post or HK Post? It could be that it was held up at Hong Kong Post due to the x-ray scanning and received back by FastTech which means they’ll offer you a choice to refund or resend.