Hahaha that is right TK, totally forgot about other lights with all the commotion.
Checked the wear on my Uniquefire 1401 that gets lots of use and twists for lockout. Looks OK.
Thanks for reminding me
Yep, lots of other lights out there with the same issue. The problem though is we don't know what the nature of the ring is on those - how thick, what metals, what coatings, etc. We really need to tell them if we go this route, that it's a wear point, and what can be done special to beef it up without going nuts, because certainly it could be done good or not so good.
Of course, solder is just the easiest fix for me. At least I think so. And it’s easy to redo when worn.
I wouldn’t worry too much about corrosion where there is friction. I think the most important points with this design are getting the copper reasonably thick and making sure the tube end is smooth. As long as TF is at least aware of those requirements so things are not changed for the worse, I think we’ll be ok.
Well the burrs Tom saw and needed to file down were strange, all the TF lights I have (had) do have the finish at a good level (VG10v2, S70, S50, S01, TK4A, S70S)
So a smooth rim of the tube is expected but indeed doesn’t harm to stress its importance.
The Miller,
Again, my intent is constructive, please do not be insulted –
I work in the USA for a Japanese company, I do not speak Japanese, and I often have to communicate via email with engineers in Japan who speak little English – so I feel I am well versed in the issues that you are facing with an engineering design, specs, prototype, etc. and the language barrier situation. The email you sent is very very VERY long and wordy for a non-English speaker to digest. It has been mentioned previously that the language barrier has been an impediment to getting some of your requests implemented. I would suggest in future communications, a few items:
- Keep sentences short and direct.
- Numbered lists or bullet points are good.
- Pictures and drawings with measurements and specs are even better.
- Be patient, you might have to email back and forth several times to gain understanding.
- Confirm that both parties understand and agree to the same understanding.
- Use specific and technical terms. Do not use vague or embellishing words. No good: “the switch cover, see attached picture, need to be long, either leave it whole so people can cut it to the lenght they want or just remove a little bit, if too much is cut the switch does not work nicely. Maybe leaving it long makes sure all switches are the same where cutting could ake some too short thus causing complaints.” Good: “The switch feel was No Good, due to the switch cover. The No Good switch cover actual measurement was 1.8mm. We suggest 1.5mm.”
- Don’t ask for confirmation of what you are thinking, just ask the question. No good: “We think cost may have been the motive for this change. We just want to know the reason behind this. We understand cost can be an important justification – that’s fine. We just don’t want to see it cause any possible new quality problems in assembly and manufacturing.” Good: “In Proto 1 and 2, a retaining ring was used. In Proto 3, two screws were used. Please help us understand, Why was it changed?”
- China uses Microsoft Excel just fine – track issues using PFS (Problem Follow Sheet) style for clarity, and to make sure nothing is overlooked.
| No. | Type | Issue | Picture | Actual (NG) Condition | Standard/Request Condition | Next steps | Timing | Status |
| 1 | Request | No Good switch feel | (picture) | Switch cover = 1.8mm | Switch cover =1.5mm | Thorfire to review and give feedback | 7-4-2017 | Open |
| 2 | Critical | LED centering | (picture) | LEDs are off center | LED must be centered | LED centering corrected for Proto3 | 24-3-2017 | Closed |
| 3 | Request | Driver retention | (picture) | Proto1&2 used retaining ring, Proto3 used screws | BLF requests retaining ring | Thorfire please explain why design was changed from retaining ring to screws | 7-4-2017 | Open |
| 4 | Critical | FET | (picture) | PSMN3R0-30YLDX was used in Prototypes | PSMN2R0-30YLDX must be used | Thorfire please confirm use of PSMN2R0-30YLDX | 7-4-2017 | Open |
| 5 | Critical | Firmware revision | (picture) | Firmware v0.3 currently | New firmware revision developed | Tom E will send firmware v0.4 on 3-28-2017. Thorfire will implement in Proto4 (Timing TBD) | ~Proto4 | Open |
Hopefully this is helpful. If I sent that email above to Japan, it would take them all day to read it, if they even could. And to get a response that accurately addressed all of the points would never happen.
This is an impressive post. I love the strategy and think this will be useful going forward.
Thanks!
Well luckily Barry does speak English and did relay a translation to engineering.
The points 1-9 are what would make it near completion.
Did think about doing a simple sheet with red for what needs to be done and green for what is done, can’t find the time. For example today, wanted to use the specification list as foundation for reaction, but got Skyping with Barry, so a short list of critical adaptation now that fast communication was there seemed better. yeah the difference between professional (getting paid/clear constructed methods/policies) dealing overseas and doing for a mere hobby can be a b@#ch 
It is just darn nice that all of us emailing a lot about this have a clear idea what is needed and where we are going, we are like each others checklists 
How did the FET end up in the critical list? I certainly agree that the lower resistance one is better but I don’t recall ever reading about major problems with the other one. Isn’t the PSMN3R0-30YLDX what’s used in the BLF A6 too? Most of the other stuff in the list seems far more important. Keep up the good work!
DEL has reviewed the specs on the two, and under certain conditions of high amp, lower voltage the 3 mohm part can get in a heat run away condition. Probably not a problem on an A6, lower amps, but on a 4 cell, 4 LED light, chances are much better to get in that state. There's a 9 cents price difference in qty 1,000 on Mouser, plus the 2 mohm part would be better performance, maybe marginally, but again on a 4 cell 4 LED light, maybe more so of a difference.
Also we asked ThorFire early on about the better NXP part, but didn't hear back about it, til we got the protos and noticed the 3 mohm part there. If they can't change it, we'll have to do some of our own tests on it. Also more history - we requested the SIR800DP and they said it's a long lead item there, so we decided against it.
You may have just given me a stroke, lol! You GOTTA at least have a “punch list”!
For real, keep up the good work guys. If you change your mind and need a QC guy, engineer, or project manager (and I even stayed at a Holiday Inn last night!), I’ll be over here impatiently waiting and trying not to step on any toes with my unsolicited comments. :+1:
I would like to have a piece. Please add me to the list too.
This is just my .02, but after reading this; it has got me to thinking.
If TF made this unscheduled change to save 9 cents per light ($90.00 per 1,000), is saving a few bucks the only reason they dropped the driver ring?
The driver ring, as far as I know; is a proven design that will stand the test of time & use. That is a known fact. It was also an original “requirement” of the Q8.
Now, unannounced & without reason TF has eliminated it in favor of two screws securing the driver. Will that design pass the test of time & use? Or has this change simply introduced a complete new set of unknowns??
If saving a few cents per light is TF’s rational for the change… to me that is not acceptable.
If they are on such a tight margine that “cutting corners” by deviating from the original design & intent of the Q8 is their “only” alternative then maybe we need to strongly consider paying a bit more for the light.
I think the increase would in reality be minuscule in the big scheme of things. Probably about the cost to each person of a cheap hamburger, a couple of beers, or half a pack of cigarettes. Very little in other words.
From my newly thought out perspective, I think this would be well worth considering.
Then the Q8 will be what it was originally designed to be, not a “redesigned” clone of a great idea.
Welcome to BLF! Will update list later.
For XPL LEDs the FET now used probalbly is fine yet if I understand DEL corrextly using LEDs with low vf could have maybe some issues and thus it would be better for future modding to use the better part for a better driver.
Oh we have specs in a nice spreadsheet but it just is not practical to bounce that around, there are a lot of emails in different email conversations going around so something like that would get lost, add difficulty for phone users so I just keep it up to date on my PC (yeah with red and green when good)
But also you see some things cone as surprise, such as the retainer ring, I had it green, we said it was good yet surprise! Change.
Hello, The Miller.
Would you put me on the list for a Q8 , thank you.
Yeah BT100 will update list later
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Sigh ok here we go again;
Yes there is extremely little if any monetary gain on the groupbuy price.
TF surprised us with changes probably made to save
Even with the changes it is a heck of light, easier to mod then a SRK, workthy of modding (the initial goal achieved on both protos!)
Right now it is walking one of two paths:
1 change the 9 points and it is done (this could be done in weeks)
2 change ANYTHING in the housing/mounting/PCB/LEDboard/reflector, well ANYTHING not fitted on of onto those parts and we are looking at yet another run and most likely two of four months. FUNNY thing is that by that time surely some BLFers want/need/keep on asking for changes, meaning that if those really important BLF wishes are to be pursued at that time we could be looking at easy 1 or 2 new 4 month runs. (8-16 months)
Adding a few $ to the price would not change a new proto with who knows what surprises can come.
Another fun fact is that during this time, the team needs talking, waiting, explaining, strategy talking, explaining, answering questions, make drawings, oh yeah, update punchlists (and well with the current flow of questions surely sharing that with BLF leading to more answering, explaining because man “profesional A”uses a lst in this order to communcate with Korea, but “professional B” knows from years of dealing with Brazil that this ordr works less fast as that order)
So you know what, why don’t the folks that keep on asking things that are already explained several times form a nice team and start working on the successor of the Q8? Yeah, we brought it to a near close inline with the start goals at the start price goal, nice. We go for path 1 and gently ask for some things and see what happens (like the brass contact ring that was done by TF or lighted switch we have gotten more then asked for in those instances)
If the Q8 is not good enough, you know better how to work with Chinese, do better design and technical work, know quality control best, PLEASE step in, make a V2
Really, we are just people doing this as hobby with limited time and I don’t think we are perfect or know all so really please show it on a better light! I am sure it can be so far superior, you’d call it Q16 change what you want to be changed, would be nice to see you new guys put in the months with hours and hours of talking, emailing, skyping, and the most fun part, explaining yourselves multiple times about every little detail and method to BLF :+1:
(Or well you could just do it in weeks right )
That ought to be what those repetitive questions are about right?
DON’T FORGET, compatible with all new LEDs and tech coming out, the driver must be changed to be able to take them all under all conditions. Better pray no one can find some SRK clones or high end light with parts or tech that needs to be used or to be modded in the Q8
Ah and of course I need your new guys exact measurements and tests, so I can doodle and add some 02 lumens on aspects I really want to keep on giving my 02 lumens on, a forumpost with a question and reply takes about a minute - even on the phone - to me, lovely compared to the hours talking about some questions with the team, calculating in some cases or just finding nice words to answer them for keeping the positive flow going.
Let me give you a little headstart:
well paying a bit more for driver retainer ring
new team of course knowing how to best communicate will not need 8 months to get to a first proto.
proto 1 price $42
Paying a bit more for HA3
proto 1 price $43
Paying a bit more for the ideal parts on the driver
proto 1 price $45
We want a diffuser
proto diffuser 1 price $50
Diffuser must be changed with up side down reflective dome at the top
proto diffuser 2 price $55
we want a holdster
proto 1 price $59
we want a AR coated ultra clear lens
proto 1 price $63
we want tail pcb to be changed for easier modding and added safety fuses
proto 1 price $64
now add an incetintive to Thorfire so add money for profits
proto 1 price $71
team receives proto 1
hmm, double springs are gone, after 40 times unscrewing the tube the renainer ring can come loose, the AR coating changes the tint
We want led X for it is super modern and has y% more lumens in bin Z
proto 2 price $74
oh wait now that we are changing, lets dd a few bucks and use a ledboard with several dual footprint and pads for fuses to change it in to series parallel config, oh it only needs 4 little parts on it to work stock with our LEDs, part that cost not uch, see Mouser has them for only so t only adds $? and thorfire needs to buy machine W but they can use it afterwards so well, we contribute by adding a lttle extra
proto 2 price $80
wait what, highest management of Thorfire pulled the plug on this project that has costs them hours and hours of engineering, costs for prototypes, several international DHL overnight shipments?
Well just ask somebody else, this could be good thing now that company so and such just presented LED this and that.
You could use a triple footprint ledboard anyways and NASA discovered that Graphene sandwiched between aluminium with anodisation on one side conducts heat better then and the Russians can now make lensen from artificial diamonds.
You can have a Q16 made perfect for a mere $20,099.- isn’t that a steal for what we will get?
You just need a couple of extra $ to have a factory build, you know best how machining works, what tools to have and well you need to go there to instruct workers so just a little per light extra to cover that.
BTW, looking at those Atmel schematics you have done a little sketching and Intel can make a MCU perfect for our needs, it would even fit a 17mm board. you need 20000 pre orders at a mere $xx per chip and what is even cooler Oracle is going to develop a programming environment so you can make nice firmware.
oh wait biomechanical engineering developments over the last 10 years now offers people eye upgrades with IR/lowlight sensors and digital zooming so people can see at night (better then a cat and bat combined) so flashlights have become obsolete? Oh well, sure you have some cool ideas how to improve the output of the sun
I did not understand any of that. Lol
Oh, I think I get where The Miller is going with that post. Maybe we should all just let our wants take a back seat to the process for a little while and see what comes of it.
I for one appreciate all that’s been done by the team to make this light a reality. Whatever happens in the end, I know it’s going to be done as well as possible, and we’ll all enjoy the heck out of it.
Thanks!
LOL, are you alright Miller? :innocent:
(this post was going to come sooner or later, but did not expect it to be such a good read :partying_face: )
The Miller is fine. I guess its his way of being polite unlike me who would of had a rant. 