So, Selfbuilt tested the Nichia 219B version, and he measured a whopping 7500 lumens! Waaaay much more than the claimed 6500 lumens by Manker, although people here are measuring less than claimed…. Need…more…data!
Maukka but something is rather weird (Slfebuild numbers also). Noctigon M43 uses 219B-V1 each at 2A output from 4*18650 can’t be lower than whatever Manker current output is only from 3*18650, basically higher resistance, harder to achieve higher currents anyway.
The 7500 lumens figure doesn’t make sense when checking Nichias specifications:
https://www.nichia.co.jp/specification/products/led/NVSW219B-V1-R90-E.pdf
it shouldn’t be possible to get that output from 12 LED:s of that type.
So I asked selfbuilt in the CPF thread.
it is very difficoult to estimate the output on such a floodlight.
a good way might be to measure the A at the led baseplate, to give an idea.
What is interesting is that selfbuilt’s high mode lumens match mine. I also get 1800 lumens on high. But on turbo he gets much more. So it’s not about our different integrating ceilings/spheres/pipes or whatevers. As long as our meters are linear, which I have no reason to doubt, his is much brighter on turbo.
edit: according to Manker the version selfbuilt tested is the Cree one so that explains a lot…
Indeed, now it all makes sense again.
So, we have 7000 to 7500 lumens for the xp-g3 version, and around 4000 for the Nichia. 7500 lumens is about as much as the Noctigon with CW xp-g2 emitters. If you put CW xp-g3 emitters on the Noctigon, then you probably would get around 8000 lumens; does this make sense? Since the Manker resembles the Noctigon in so many ways, I would not be surprised if a similar design is used for the driver as well. Therefore Manker estimates 8000 lumens with the xp-g3. But in reality, the driver performs a bit less than anticipated; max 7500 lumens for xp-g3 would then make 4000 lumens for the 219b realistic, since the Noctigon 219b produces 4450 lumens. The Manker’s driver performs a bit less well than the Noctigon’s driver.
So where does Manker get the 6500 lumens for the 219b? Well, they were initially planning to use 219c emitters, but Nichia couldn’t supply them, so 219b are used. Perhaps 219c were used in the prototype and calculations by Manker? Because the 219c Noctigon produces 6600 lumens, and since Manker are perhaps using the same/similar driver design, they were estimating 6500 lumens, which is about the same as the Noctigon 219c. Just an idea.
hIKARInoob
You may look at bit at RMM’s website for some numbers on all kind of LED variants on the M43.
However it’s 4cells vs 3cells, no way 3cells can maintain higher or longer Turbo levels than 4*18650 because because all of the voltage drop in the
body, wires, springs, fet, inductor, sense resistors)
I think you are trying too much to equate the two products 1:1 in claims too much.
Original will always validate the clones (all industries), reason why Chinese prefer to clone rather than come up with original ideas, it just makes sense business-wise.
Hi,
Yes I’m familiar with the data of the M43 on Richard’s site. Interesting you mentioned the above. But the latter is exactly the reason why I’m equating the two. To see the similarities, and trying to account for the differences. The 3 versus 4 cell difference does explain the drop in performance or not? Cheers!
Sounds plausible, but then again it could simply be the marketing department inflating the figures a bit. Because, since most of the competition is doing it and knowing that output is the most important factor for the majority of customers, they want to show at least as good figures as for competing lights.
Why not instead start a new trend and let an outside institute (with NIST-certified equipment) do the testing and publish the verified report? That, if anything, would be smart marketing.
I’m sure the 3 vs. 4 cells doesn’t make difference in itself. On the Meteor (219C) the output is identical from 0 to 30 seconds with 3 or 4 batteries as long as they are good ones (30Q, 25R, GA). With the Samsung 30Qs and 25Rs, even 2 batteries is enough without any sacrifice in max output.
Sanyo NCR18650GAs almost maintain the max output with 2 batteries even though the Meteor flashed its LEDs in the beginning to signal too high of a voltage drop. At 30 seconds the output is only about 3% lower than with 4 cells.
I also tried with some protected 35Es that came with the Olight X7, but with them three wasn’t enough and the output was about 17% lower. The light also flashed after turning the turbo mode on.
In the chart below 100% is output at 0 sec with four 30Qs.
Nice Maukka! Data like this makes me happy; it reveals so much…
P.S. 100% in your graph is Noctigon’s lumen value?
P.S.2 Olight 35E was probably a very tight fit or not?
100% is max output at 0 seconds with 4 30Qs.
Didn’t really have to force the 35Es in even though they are very long. It’s much harder to fit button top 30Qs to the MK34.
I measured with 3.89V Sony VTC5 3,7A at one quad with 40A Clamp-Multimeter and 2800lumen. That was the Nichia version.
With full Samsung 25R I got 3200 lumen, that makes 4.2-4.4A on one quad on turbo.
Very disapointing.
I found 3 pcs of R010 on the driver, that would be an option for higher current.
Here is it a bit longer Manker MK34 - Review | Taschenlampen Forum
Selfbuilt had the XP-G3 flashlight and compared his mesurement with the Nichia-Values.
Nice graphs Maukka, the constant current output of the driver is working really nice, I was not expecting to compensate that much. I don’t know why I haven’t tested that too.
Just a bit confused about it, did you made the M43 graph to support the MK34 flashlight because of my post?
I am not sure, because that is what I trying to say is that some people take M43 data to support MK43, which is just another product.
Basically around 1.05A-1.1A per emitter with the Samsung 25R.
Maybe you should fully charge the VTC5 and test again what you get? The 25R where higher voltage than the Sony?
The MK34 is not just another product; it is clearly derived from the M43. Having an understanding of the M43 helps understanding the MK34, and what is going wrong. Understanding the M43 results (there are other ways) in the suspicion that Selbuilt’s result of 7500 lumens for the Nichia 219b is extremely unlikely. This suspicion turned out correct as xp-g3 was used, and not Nichia. Involving the M43 leads to the suspicion that the MK34 with 219b emitters is unlikely to produce 6500 lumens. Measured data verifies this (unfortunately). Hence, in this particular case using the M43 as a (not an absolute) reference is allowed. Nothing more, nothing less.
The 25R had the full Voltage of 4,2V before testing. I dont have the flahlight anymore, so I can not test it again.
Well with 1.1A per LED output I must say I am shocked about about Selbuilts’s 7500lm testing on XP-G3.
Just a quick math. a XP-G3 S5 at 1.1A and 50Celsius is outputting 491lm *12 that is 5892lm that are just LED lumens, drop that with 15% to account for optic glass losses, and get around 5000lm OTF.
Budda says around 6200lm to 6800lm
I would not be surprised there are various drivers in flashlights. and I am saying that because I do not want to out faith in inexplicable things.
Comparison Beam shots between the Olight X7 and 2 LED flavours of mk34. Thanks to the reviews by going gear.
